Mark: 0:25

Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left in capital Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the.

Francis: 0:38

Finer things in life and the inside track is what we will be bringing you today. This is the third and final installment of the shows that we recorded in person down at Houston at the Southern Smoke Festival It was a tremendous, tremendous experience for us, and we talked to some great guys who coming up later in the show. We have Joaquin Rodas. He owns Bachanal Fine Wine Spirits in New Orleans. It is a liquor store. Come, restaurant come. They don't have any fucking rules in New Orleans. So that's what they have there and it's super awesome music. Have a great time. We have Colby Rasavong who owns Bad Idea, my favorite named Restaurant of all time. That's a Lao restaurant in Nashville of all places. He said, Lao Bet you didn't know whether there was a Lao restaurant in Nashville. Uh, Caroline Schiff. her book is Daily Dessert. It's in the works. It'll be out soon. Uh, and she's gonna open a diner in New York City and we talked to her all the way down in Houston, Texas. And Leanne Wong of, uh, top Chef Fame, she's a partner at at Cocoa Head Cafe in Honolulu, in Hawaii. Uh, she also had a restaurant that was affected by the recent fire, a super interesting conversation with her, and we hope you stay tuned for those guys. But in the meantime, you have to put up with us for just a few more minutes. Well, I, I wanna start out today, if that's all right with you, Francis. one of the things that Francis and I really enjoy is we enjoy going out to other restaurants. And so you'll hear anecdotes on this show of us going out to other restaurants and some of the things we see and, and don't see, and of course, things that happen to us in our own restaurants, but. Last night I went out to a restaurant here in New Jersey. That was lovely. It was really just Okay. We had a lovely time, great time with friends. The, the wait staff was great. it was just a lovely afternoon at this restaurant when a guy your size says lovely. It's a little bit weird, I gotta be honest with you. It's just a little odd, but go ahead. It was lovely, but lovely. I get it. I get it. You know, we had, we had some wine, we had some cocktails. Everything was, everything was very good. a, it's an Italian restaurant, and this, they have this great Amaro list. Oh yeah, Amaro. Okay. So, you know, I, I love Amma and Francis and I have a new favorite oh, Amma cocktail. It's funny, I talked about this last night as well at the restaurant I went to. Please finish your story. I got one. Go ahead. So. I look at their tomorrow list and this, this drink that we love is called the Shake Rado. We had it at Jackrabbit Philly down in in Charleston the last time we were there. Awesome. Drink. Delicious, by the way, we've been drinking tomorrow for years. Never did it. And, and it's like you're, it's like that restaurant around the corner from me that you never went to for years, and you're like, why did I never come here? It is amazing. So. It. They don't have bra, right? So I tell everybody at the table about the Shake Rado, and I'm like, ah, you know, we've done it with other Amara. Let's explain what a Shake rado is. Okay. So basically you just take a cold bottle of of Braulio and put it over ice and shake the crap out of it, and then just pour it back out into a martini glass. It's a martini glass on Nick. And, and Braley is very specific. It has the right amount, it has a certain little bit of sugar. It's got the right amount of bitter and it's got kind of an alpine nose to Yeah, very tininess to it. F and so, because it's got the right amount of sugar and cons, it has a little forms. It looks like an espresso martini. You got that little foam on the top and it doesn't work with other things except for Browley. Uh, it, uh, we tried it with like five other tomorrow and it didn't work anyway, so they don't have Rollo on the list. Yep. Okay. So I'm like, ah, sorry guys. I was gonna show you this cool thing. I can't show you this cool thing. So we order dessert, we order coffee, blah, blah, blah. The waiter comes out. Now, I don't know if he overheard me and I don't think he did. Okay. Uhhuh with a bottle of brow Leo and six shots of brow Leo for us. What? What? I thought they didn't have it. They didn't. He's like, oh, we have this great tomorrow. I wanted you to try. He didn't hear what you said. So now. I do a little double take, and my friend said, the expression on my face was one of like, wow, hooray. And one of, oh, should I ask? And did you, what do you think? I know you, I know you well enough. So you had shake her autos last night. So I said, so, I said, would you mind just taking these and shaking'em really hard and, and, and bringing him back. And for the next 15 minutes, my friends who are also your friends by the way. Yeah. Said, just sat, I wasn't invited. Everyone should know. Just, just sat there and said. Oh, let me see if I can retell this story. So the waiter comes over, brings Mark a free thing. He says Not good enough. So I, I That's great. So they spent the next 15 minutes making me feel like a douche or making them shake the, the bra. But it was, but did they love it? It, of course, they loved it. It's spectacular, spectacular. But it was one of those moments of. I know this is a little douchey. Yeah, I know it's a little douchey. Yeah, but, but we have this moment in time. We have to have it. And so we had it and we had our shake Rados and everybody now is in love with Shake Rados and the waiters in love with Shake Rados, and I'm a little bit of a douche. Unbeknownst to you, last night we went out with our friends, Corey and Megan and other of our friends that That you're your friends to? Yep. Corey and Megan. We met Ed and my sister Francine. Well then I went out with Anthony and Theresa. And Kevin Charlotte because if you're gonna say all their names, I'm gonna say all my names. Lets. Split, let's switch next week. So we went to San Patricio, which is Jack McGarry's restaurant in Jersey City. Fantastic Bar restaurant. We had a great time. And then afterwards we went to visit our friends at the Archer. Great bar, the Archer Bar, and they usually have bra. So I went with our friends who had also never had a shake. Rado, Uhhuh crazy, probably at the exact same moment. I went by the bar and I said to the bartender, who's also a friend, I said, um, I can't say his name'cause Marco yell at me. Um, and I, I said, uh, I won't yell, but I'll make fun of you as our friends. Mercilessly made fun of me last night, so, so I said, do you have any brow, Leo? And they were. Out of Lio. Ah. And he said, well, why do you, can I bring another marrow? I'm like, nah, maybe it might work with others. But I, I, it doesn't work with many and it works with Lio. I wanna have Shake Rado. He's like, what's a shake? Rado? And I told him, so we had a similar experience except you got your shake Rados and I didn't, and I, and you were at a place that normally has it. And I was at a place that doesn't have it. Yeah, that's wild. Crazy world. Very, very interesting. Uh, shake Auto Land out there or, alright, so here's what you've learned as we're on our way into the festival in Houston where you will learn so much more at Southern Smoke for our final episode, shake Rado Brow, Leo Romero, which is one of the more expensive ams, but it's, it's an expensive bottle of America. You can sub in other ones. It is really a lovely thing for the waiter to bring us. It's, it's, and just throw in some of. Shake the hell out of it and strain it off like it's an espresso martini or something. You'll be shocked as we were. I promise. You'll be shocked. Yeah. And again, that was Jackrabbit Philly, where, where we had it the first time. It was really good. Awesome. And also Archer Bar and uh, San Tric in Jersey City. You now have some bar recommendations from the restaurant guys. So go there, support our friends. and you can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com. We'll be back in just a moment where you're gonna hear us down in Houston, Texas.

the-restaurant-guys_4_10-04-2025_175227: 7:39

Hey guys, though we are in downtown Houston, we found yet another owner, bar owner. Chef owner, interesting guy from uh, new Orleans. Joaquin Rodasas is the founding chef and managing partner of Bachanal Fine Wines and Spirits in New Orleans. It's an interesting story and he's here to tell it to us today, and a really good name. Yeah, Baal. Great. It's a really great name. I can't take credit for the name. All right. It's a fantastic name. Alright, so tell us the origin story of Bachanal and you're, I mean, everybody pretends to be a modern day speakeasy, right? You were a, a speakeasy for real. Like the cops turned up and stuff on a Friday night. Is that a problem? On a Friday night at 8:30 PM I, I didn't even know the health department worked on a Friday night at 8:00 PM I, especially in New Orleans, I mean, you know, who works overtime in New Orleans? Yeah, absolutely. Or you made somebody mad who you weren't supposed to make mad. Well, so tell us what happened and, and how you became the savior of the neighborhood and the bane of the local police. So, Boal started out our, our founder, uh, and spiritual still to this day really. Uh, who drives a lot of the, the, the aesthetic decisions is our, our, unfortunately, he passed away our founder Chris Rudge. So he, he got a bug, uh, he got a bug under his belt. He wanted to open a wine shop, a 29-year-old kid, not the usual career path for a 29-year-old, 800 square foot, um, wine shop. And that's what it was for a very long time. And then Hurricane Katrina. Knocked a shed in the backyard down and the neighborhood kind of, uh, really, uh, got behind. Chris helped him clean it up. And one of the neighbors was a landscape architect and said, you know what? I got some trees. I'm gonna help you here. I got some trees. Wait, so was he, was, was the original wine shop damaged significantly in, at, in the storm at all? So it escaped the ravages of Hurricane Katrina. So Bachanal is in, uh, a building that was built in 1809. It's one of the St Sturdiest buildings in the entire, uh, new Orleans. I think. It's a really old building. Um, so yeah, that building was unscathed. Uh, it was like a, a carport in the back. A humongous carport. Collapse got cleaned out. Uh, people had always wanted to go in the backyard and smoke weed mm-hmm. While they're drinking wine. But now, you know, it got landscaped. People brought over tables. The neighborhood really kind of like chipped in and it was like, Hey, I got this stuff I was gonna throw away, but I just bring it over here and everybody just hang. It just turned into a hangout. A lot of musicians in New Orleans after Katrina, specifically, the bars and restaurants that they had gigs at were not open. Right. So they needed somewhere to go bus and. Bachanal on Sunday nights was the place to go. And same with chefs that the restaurants weren't open yet, so they would pop up in the backyard. So this is a wine shop. It's a wine shop. And I don't really mean to like parse the little edges of the law here. Yeah. But as far as I know, wine shops aren't really allowed to. Open the bottles of wine and send people in the backyard with the band. Is that correct? Yeah. They're also not allowed to let their patrons smoke weed in the back either. Yeah, yeah. Uh, no, no, absolutely. I like you guys, by the way. I'm telling you right now. No, we, um, it's funny'cause I, I was one of those pop-up chefs. I was a friend of Chris's before. I had my own establishment down the road and he was, we were really good friends. We were the only 20 somethings with establishments and so we were dear friends. after Katrina. We just ran into each other and he said, why don't you start popping up, uh, in the backyard of Buck? And I said, great. So what would you, would you bring a grill and just grill in the backyard? Huh? Or did they have kitchen facilities or No, no, no, no. What kinds of food? Anything anybody wanted. It really was like, uh, a really free place for a chef to like, if, if you worked at a burger joint, but you really loved French food. That was your popup. And that was one of the best things about Oh, that's cool. The setup there. It was. And so he sold the wine and the chefs took the money for the food. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's, I bought it, bought me a pickup truck one day, you know, I was gonna say, you know what that's called? That's called the partnership? Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's called. You know what else? It's called a fucking party. That's, that's called And you're talking about New Orleans here. Those people know how to party. Yeah. So, I'm sorry, where'd you say that? A pickup truck one, uh, it was Tales of the Cocktail, which is a, uh, cocktail convention. Oh yeah. New Orleans pretty big. Yeah, we box. So, um. I picked the Sunday of Tales, which is the last day of tales. Wow. On purpose.'cause I knew there was a lot of, I, I made so much money. I bought a pickup truck in cash from that one. That's awesome. Pop up. What year was that? That was in 2010. I'm only mad because we were at Tales in 2010 and we didn't know about your party. If you do that again, when you do that again, you have to let us know. this goes on for how long before the cops turn up and shut you down you know, post Katrina 2006, 2009, 10, that's when I come on board. And that's when we move it from just one night a week to five nights a week. Uh oh. And that's when it starts to get more notoriety. The mayor came. Two weeks before we got shut down. Um, and so once we're, you know, we're feeding 200 people a night and, um, you know, on a Friday, 8:30 PM uh, almost, almost locked arm, arm to arm, uh, NOPD, quality of life officer with the police officer health, uh, state health department, and a fire marshal. Altogether all together showed up, you know, showed with cameras and because you were breaking all those different laws. Well, that's what I found out. That's it. Yeah. We weren't actually licensed to have any live entertainment. Mm-hmm. By then we had band five nights a week. Wow. Uh, I had a full kitchen program, uh, you know, six nights a week. We were cooking for up to 200 people a night. I, we didn't have a license for preparation, or kitchen was not licensed at all. Uh, and so they, you know, we had to go get legal. It took about eight months and the interim. So you were close for eight months? No, actually, so my job, uh, kind of took it back to the old school. And actually at the time, um, food trucks were really starting to Yeah. Kind of come in into their own in New Orleans. So I said, you know what, we can sell a lot of wine as long as there's food. So we invited our friends that had food trucks Oh, that's great. To pop up there. And then every once in a while I'd rent one from them and I'd cook and mm-hmm. So, yeah, it, we just kind of try to keep the party going. That was the name of the game was just keep the party going. So when, when, listen, the name of the game in the restaurant business is keep the party going. Yeah. So when, right. That's what we gotta do. That's what we do through every major disaster in our lives. Keep the party going. Absolutely. So when did you get legal in 2011? Late 2011. Took us about eight months. we have a fully licensed, we are now the poster children, like the city shows us as an example of compliance, and we have every license you can think of now, right? We have a catering lake license, catering, food license, on-premise, off-premise. Everything every we are, we're so legal. It's not even funny anymore. Well, and so tell us about the party today. we really wanted to have you on because I think it's a really interesting concept. So it's still, you're serving food, but you are a wine store, but you're still a bar. Absolutely. How does it work? What's it like to visit your place? So when you walk through, you're gonna come in through the wine shop, uhhuh. You're gonna come into about an 800 square foot, uh, So all the windows are blocked in, it's a brick building and a very old brick building. So it feels like you went into a cellar, uh, even though you're at ground level. Mm-hmm. About four to 500 selections of wine are gonna be all displayed on the walls. You're gonna grab your bottle of wine. Somebody's gonna guide you. There's a refrigerator with cheeses where you pick your own cheeses. If you want a cheese plate or a charcuterie plate, pick it out. You pay for everything at the counter. We give you a number, and we say, please go out back and pick a table. Everything is first. Come, first serve. There's no servers. It's all counter service. So you pick your bottle of wine as well. From the, from the, absolutely. Who buys the wine? Do you have a serious wine buyer? Are you serious about wine? What's the look story there? Absolutely. Yeah. Our, our, some are. Wine buyer, director of our wine program, uh, Katie Singer. She's actually here, maning the tent right now pouring wine. Ah, because you're not, yeah. Yeah. So she's over there manning the tent and, uh, she's fantastic. She's been with us for eight years and awesome. We're very, very blessed to have some, the most amazing wine professionals in the country really working with us because we're kind of like a really chill place where you can have fun with that. And what are you doing here at Southern Smoke? How'd this happen? I mean, huge, huge fan of Chris, uh, shepherd and obviously his wife, uh, Lindsay and, uh, Caroline s is a really good friend of mine. She works for Southern Smoke as well. Mm-hmm. She's lived in New Orleans for years. Um, and she connected, uh, she connected us and I've been like, just like very impressed with the amount of outreach and, and how much energy and intention they put behind supporting our industry. And they just keep finding new and better ways to support. Our service industry. And it's something that's like, you know, very kind of left, we're left to our own devices in a lot of ways and they, they do an amazing job of bringing our flight to the, the world and having them donate money to help us. Right. So. Awesome. Well that's, that's great. It is. It has been a pleasure meeting you here today. Thanks. Excited, uh, this event is spectacular. We're gonna talk to Chris in actually just a few minutes. Well, uh, when you're in New Orleans, you should visit Akana. It's a hello party and a great place to pick up a bottle of wine. Joaquin, thanks for talking to us. My pleasure guys. Thank you so much for nice chatting with you. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks very much. Really good talking. Take care. That was fun.

the-restaurant-guys_3_10-04-2025_160036: 16:48

Well, the great chefs keep rolling in here in Houston, Texas. Uh, but they're not all from Texas. Colby Rasavong is executive chef at Bad Idea, uh, wine focused restaurant in East Nashville. he was named Food of Wine's, best New Chef's 2025 class and it's a pretty interesting restaurant, so we really wanted to get you into talk about it. Yeah, totally welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Super excited. So you are Laotian. Yes. And your restaurant has Loatian influences? It does. Has a lot. A lot. Never been to a Laotian restaurant. Can you tell us about the Food of Laos and how it expresses itself in bad idea? Great name, by the way. For a restaurant or terrible? Either. Either a great name or, or a terrible name, just so you know. If your restaurant sucks, it's a terrible name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If your restaurant's great. It's a fantastic name. Yeah. So good. Good on you. Thank you. Thank you. It's actually been, uh, a gift and a curse. You know? It, it's, I never thought I'd be walking down the street and people would just yell, Hey, your bad idea. That's great. Uh, but yeah, the restaurant in Lao Food, you know, when we started the restaurant, we were talking about the food I wanted to cook. You know, I was, I was homesick at that point in time. And, you know, I, I spent my entire career working in French kitchens, Southern kitchens, and. Cooking other people's food and, and, and I had a chance to finally cook my own. And, you know, we had to deep dive into it. And, and the flavors that I missed the most were the ones I grew up eating as a kid. And a lot of those flavors are similar to, you know, the area around it. You know, Laos is very cool because it's landlocked just like Tennessee, where I'm at. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know where we got Cambodia, Thailand, China. Vietnam, uh, over there. So you have a little bit of influence from all of those little, countries and regions. So it makes something that's kind of like the powerhouse of it all. You have the sour, the umami, the, the saltiness and, and the balance of it all. It's a very rich, cuisine. what would you say defines Lao cuisine? that makes it distinct from those other cuisines around the area? Mm-hmm. So when you, when you really kind of deep dive into it, you'll notice, you know, Thai cuisine is a little bit sweeter in certain regions, whereas Cambodian's a little bit sour. Uh, Vietnam is very punchy with their fish sauce. In Laos, it's, it's more rounded, you know, it's, it's, it's more of a palette of like a chef, the cuisine is you get everything. Uh, as opposed to just a singular, uh, so everything in every dish kind of thing, you get all those components in every dish. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. why Nashville, Tennessee and is there, a Lao population in Nashville that was there to support you or are you bringing this to. People who've never seen it before and intRodasucing people to novel stuff. Uh, it's a little bit of both. You know, what we do at the restaurant, uh, isn't something I've ever really seen anywhere. You know, we have a lot of French influence, uh, with I can you background? I've been to a lot of restaurants. I've never seen it anywhere, so I, I'm eager to try it. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know. Uh, in Nashville or outside of Nashville? There's Murfreesboro, which has the second largest LA population in the country. Okay. Ah, so it was actually home for me. You know, when I came back it was, it was coming home and I was excited to give them something that, is that where you're from? Exactly. Okay. So you, so you leave Tennessee, you go to Charleston. Mm-hmm. You work for Husk, you work for a couple other places? I do in Charleston. Why come, why did he come back to Tennessee? What, what pulled you back? Actually, you know, I, I worked for Sean Brock for a long time. in 2020 I moved back to help him open his restaurant Audrey, in June. Okay. And so when I was there, you know, I was noticing the boom that Nashville was having and I, I really wanted to have my own footprint in that city because it gave me so much. That's great. Yeah. Was it a bold move? I assume there are Lao restaurants in Murfreesboro mm-hmm. And around Tennessee that are, that are patronized by Lao patrons, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you have basically an American restaurant heavily influenced with your LAO influences. Mm-hmm. Um, was that. Are people surprised by that? Is that like a, a seen as a new thing there or how, how did the people react when you did that? You know, it was, it was, it was very scary, right? Because it is a new thing. No one's really doing it, so there's no one for me to really lean on or ask questions beyond, you know, the, the normal restaurant things. Uh, but when it came to the food, I was, I was really surprised and overwhelmed at the reception that we had. You know, we, we had Lao families that came in and, you know, they understood what, they couldn't recognize what was on the plate, but they understood where we were going. You know, we've had guests cry because they, they now see, you know, a role model for their children. Because, you know, for me, when I was growing up, you didn't see Lao chefs. You didn't see Lao movie stars. Right. You didn't, you didn't see anybody that you could look up to. Um, and so when they come in, they see that for their children and know that there's a better path forward for us. Um, and then Americans come in and they eat the food and you know, they recognize what it looks like, but then they eat it and they don't really understand. They're like, what the hell is that? So they're, the food looks American, but tastes la Exactly. Yep. Or vice versa. Or vice versa. It'll look Lao and taste very American in a way. That's wild. Yeah. and a lot of these restaurants that we're interviewing chefs on, we've been to their restaurants. Mm. What, is it a fine dining vibe? Is it a, is it more community vibe? Is there, is, does beverage play a role in your, in your restaurant? Um, no. It's a, it's a very casual, uh, relaxed atmosphere. We have a very large space. Uh, we're in a renovated church. Um, so we, we wanted to make sure that everybody felt comfortable coming in. You have tables where you can have, you know, a nice dinner that's a little bit more quiet and secluded for, you know, you and your guests. But then, you know, there's a great lounge area where you can have small bites and, you know, just really turn up and, and have fun with, you know, a couple bottles of really delicious wine. Old banks and old churches. Yeah. Make some of the best restaurant spaces in the country. Yeah. I mean, I, I just, there's just something about it. Yeah. So listen, we wanna, we want to ask, especially the chefs who've come to Houston from far away. Mm-hmm. Um, kind of as final question. What brought you to be involved in this festival? What's your relationship with Southern Smoke? Why are you here today? Yeah, well this was, you know, uh, like you said earlier, I was very fortunate to win, uh, best new chef for food and wine this year. And, you know, they have the best new chefs come, uh, and do this festival. They have us do, uh, food and wine in Aspen. So I felt like it was an obligation, but I'm very excited to be here. because of the great impact that I'm seeing and, you know, I'm learning so much about the foundation that I never really knew, uh, before. Awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure to talk to you and, uh, I want to want to get to Tennessee to try your restaurant. Amazing. Please, please. Come on on. Yeah, Colby, it's great. Very nice to meet you, sir. Pleasure. Nice to meet you guys. Thanks. Thanks for chatting with us, brother. Yes, of course. Thank you guys. Yeah,

the-restaurant-guys_4_10-04-2025_171815: 24:29

Let's see here. We are back again. This time, not on the savory side. We have a pastry chef with us. We have come all the way from Brooklyn, New York and New Brunswick, New Jersey to meet up in Houston, Texas with Caroline Schiff. She's an award-winning chef in cookbook author based in Brooklyn. She was named Food and Wine's Best New, uh, chef in 22. Is that right? Yep. Best new Chef in 22. An outstanding pastry chef. Finalist. she was at Gage in Tollner for a long time and she's currently writing a new cookbook, which we are excited to hear all about. Yes, yes. Caroline, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. What brings you all the way from Brooklyn down here? I could say the same thing about us in Jersey, but how did you end up here? Mean? You know, Southern Smoke is an incredible organization. Chris Shepherd, I've known for a couple years now and like what he does and what the. Organization does is incredible and so crucial Yeah. For our restaurant community and, um, now more than ever, frankly, now more than ever. And when he's like, Hey, you wanna do this every year? I'm like, absolutely. So what are you doing down here? So today I'm actually doing a. Demo on the Yeti stage, which is gonna be super fun. It's taking place at six 30 if you guys can get away. What are you demoing? I am making a giant baked Alaska. How giant? Ah, like, like yay big. Like around like, your arms can hardly get your arms around it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, I like that. Yeah. So Baked Alaska was one of your we'll call signatures at Cajun Tollner, right? Yes. So tell us what, what made it that and why you thought that was such an important dessert to do there? Um, well, you know, gage and Tollner, uh, if you know it, and for people who are not familiar, this is a, legendary New York, steak and chophouse. Yeah, the oysters, the, the Steakhouse of Brooklyn is Gage and Tollner. Well, hundreds, 150 years old. Close for a little while back, going back to like, you know, the original one was like 1870s, and you know, the current location opened in the 1890s. and operated until, uh, 2004, I believe. 2004 is correct. Um, good. Yes, I got my, got my trivia, um, when it shut down, but the place was totally preserved because it's a landmarked interior. and what was your role when, when you went in there? So I was the executive pastry chef. And, um, the partners who own it, they did this incredible job just restoring it, bringing it back to its can. Can you talk to me about crowdfunding, opening a new restaurant? What's up with that? I, well, so I, I haven't done it, I mean, G had toner. That was part of the formula, right? Were Yeah. Yeah. They, the partners did crowdfund for that. And I think, um, you know, raising money for restaurants is very difficult. And I think that, um, also, like this event proves as well as that, the general public, the community, they get very excited about restaurants. They really wanna be a part of it. Yes. So you can take in smaller chunks of money if you opened, open it up to the general public and you know, it can get you, it can get you what you need. So, that work to g in Tollner and it also, um, really engaged the community. Mm-hmm. So people were very excited and they really got like, excited about like the history of it. it really became this restaurant that was really part of like, you know, the, the neighborhood as somebody who was going to Brooklyn, you know, 40 Sundays a year for my entire childhood, gage and Toner was one of those restaurants that was Yeah. Was and is again, iconic. Yeah. and so you come in as pastry chef, what do you do there? Yeah. so I was, there for the opening and, um, we were supposed to open March, 2020. Mm-hmm. So that didn't happen. so it got pushed, until indoor dining was loud in New York again, which was April, 2021. So we had kind of like gotten to the point where we were about to open and then the city shut down. So there was this, this. Period of like, oh my God, like we did all of this work and, and then just lights out. Um, but so when we were able to open, it was like so joyful, so exciting. And, the menu that I came up with, I tried to really think about, You know, the history of the restaurant looked at old menus, and, I really wanted to, do it justice and really be informed by those old menus. And also just like the era that it, you know, was established. So Victorian era, like, what was going on? So how did you do that? What did you put on the menu? So the baked Alaska went on the menu, and this is a Victorian era dessert. Mm-hmm. The story goes, and, you know, I think it's pretty true that, baked Alaska was invented in the 1860. Uh, we can, we can fact check that. Um, at Del Monaco's also, that's what Max Tucci says. He was on a few weeks ago. Also in New York. He says Baked Alaska came from Del Monaco's. Yeah. And it was, invented to, commemorate the United States, um, The acquisition of. the Alaskan territory from the Russian Empire. So it's this like very like of a time and place dessert. And it's, dramatic and it's, I was gonna say more importantly, big and it's, you light it on fire. Yeah, that's what it's like. You light it on fire. I have a blowtorch. I'm gonna be blowtorching later. You guys should come. Love it. You can flambe it. All of these. It's so fun. gage and Tollner is a very celebratory restaurant. Yep. So, um, I felt like it really fit the space and, and what people were coming there for. And it just love really, I love, one of the things I have a lot of respect for too, you're, you're a pastry person, right? You are pastries of your life. You love, you love desserts. But there's a little cheese tasting on the Gage and Ulner menu. Absolutely. In a former life you worked in a cheese shop. I did. That seems to have informed what you put on the dessert menu. It does, it does. I love cheese. Um, when I was a young line cook, this was like my first job. well, I was, I wasn't even like a proper like line cook yet. I was like an intern, a kitchen intern, which is how a lot of people start out. Sure. If you don't go to culinary school. So I'm interning a couple days a week, whenever they need help with like prep or whatever. Mm-hmm. So I'm like running back and forth to the restaurant and then I'm like, okay, well I need to make money. So I work at a cheese counter and, I loved it. Yeah, I mean it was just, it was great. And, um, you learn so much. You have wonderful interactions with people, uh, help helping them pick out, you know, a cheese board and that kind of thing. Well, I, I love when a pastry chef is not afraid Cheese can be part of dessert too. Just this. Absolutely. Absolutely. For sure. So what, uh, is going on now with Caroline Schiff? You've left Gage and Tollner. What's the, what's the plan? What, what are you I'm writing a cookbook. my publisher is Abrams based in New York. They are absolutely wonderful. And, uh, the book is called Daily Dessert, and the idea is that Not only is it okay to have dessert daily, but it's such a nice ritual and thing to do for yourself. And, um, it doesn't necessarily have to be a special occasion or any big reason. It's just like, you know, it's four o'clock, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna. Disconnect for a moment. Mm-hmm. I'm going to treat myself to a little something. So all of the recipes are designed for, you know, all different kinds of circumstances, but all of the recipes are, designed so that they're really accessible and approachable. I really want to talk to you about something that. Is changing in the world. Yes. And for the worse, like a lot of things in the world are changing for the worse. Uh, I'm seeing fewer and fewer pastry chefs in restaurants. Yeah, that's true. More and more somebody is a pastry chef line cook. Yep. More and more somebody's, you, you better have some other responsibilities.'cause we can't afford to pay a pastry chef. You know? And if, and if there is a pastry chef. The desserts are better. Be 20 bucks each. Yep. Because that's the, the only way 20 bucks. Right. 20 bucks plus. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,'cause that's the only way to, to afford to have a pastry chef in this day and age. And that is to the detriment of great restaurants and Yeah. Average restaurants across the country right now. Absolutely. And I'm sure. You've discussed this and heard from plenty of chefs and restaurant owners about this, that, you know, the, when you look at the math of a restaurant and, you crunch your numbers, it's bad, bad math. It's bad math. It doesn't, it, it really very rarely works uhhuh. And it's so, your margins are so thin and you are just always operating. so close to that, that line. And, um, unfortunately, pastry is usually the first thing to go mm-hmm. Because people have this like, well, you know, well you can't get rid of meat. Okay. Then, so, you know, you can't get rid of the, the, the meal, you know? Right. If it's a restaurant, so where do you cut cost? Yeah. And you can cheat and have your line cooks make creme brulee and say, okay, go and listen. I love cran brulee. Mm-hmm. And there are line cooks that make great desserts. and getting other people in the kitchen involved in other departments, I think is very cool and very, really smart. But these, you know, full pastry programs, it is an expense for a restaurant. And so it works, you know, in super fine dining because people are willing to, Pay hundreds of dollars per person. Um, but yeah, a lot of like everyday spots just don't have pastry departments anymore. So you heard it here, support a pastry chef get dessert. That's correct. That is correct. So do the right thing. Order dessert. Uh, alright. A little birdie told, told me something and you're gonna tell me if it's true or not. Okay. I heard that Caroline Schiff is working on opening a classic diner in New York City. Something that is on the, it's on the to-do list, um, working on fundraising right now. Great. Obviously, have you thought about crowdsourcing? yeah, definitely. It's a totally a strategy. Um, but, you know, so in those kind of stages right now, and, gonna finish the book first. Okay. But, um. Lots of desserts, lots of pie, lots of cake. Um, and well, I think there's nothing that New York City needs more now than a classic diner. I just want, you know, I think restaurants should be places where anybody can go and you wanna go all the time. And it should be like, okay, I go for, I stop in for breakfast twice a week and you know, this is where we always do Sunday brunch and this is like our, oh, you know, Tuesday dinner that's, the night we go out and that kind of thing. And really being like part of people's like routines and community I think is really, important for a restaurant. Well, if that happens, we'll be looking forward to going. We love, we are from New Jersey. We love a diner. I will make sure that you guys have. Great counter seats and slices of pie. Love it. I love it. Good coffee because that's the best spot Francis for when he got married. Uhhuh, he had a giant pie bar for his pie, for his dessert. Genius. Genius. His dessert pie bar and Irish coffee. Oh, so I had all the pies lined up. My whole staff was there and you could come in and, and get, you get a slice of pie, some schlog. And an Irish coffee on your way out the door. Perfect. So we have great respect for pastry chefs around here. Caroline Schiff, thank you for taking the time to talk with us in the restaurant. Thank. Thanks, Caroline. Thank you so much for coming here with us. This is great. Thank you. Great. Thanks so much. Take care.

the-restaurant-guys_3_10-04-2025_154134: 37:01

So our next guest is Leanne Wong. Leanne is an American chef restaurateur television personality. she's involved behind the cameras and in front of the cameras. She's got her own restaurants, and Leanne Wong was on the first season of Top Chef Season one. Mm-hmm. And if you recall, the restaurant guys were covering Top Chef season one. So what we used to do is the night after the finals. Whoever won. would come on our live radio show right afterwards. So here's a little tidbit that you don't know. We were rooting for Leanne the whole season one. Mm-hmm. You are our favorite. Thanks. And we thought. She should have won. I should have beat a, I should have beat a steak in a fricking martini glass. I tell you that much. I hear you. I hear you. I steak and mashed potatoes in a martini glass and I made lamb risotto. You're gonna dig me for truffle risotto. So for truffle oil. Come on. You know what happened? I onto it. This needs to have left an impression. Hold onto it. Everyone's like, oh, you went to the final four? I was like, no, I was just number four. They sent a three to finale that year. Yeah, three to the final that year. That's right. I was rocking. Anyway, it's uh, and people don't realize, okay. It is personal. Yeah. Sticks with you. It's not business it with personal. This is our lives dude. It sticks with you, man, but you, but you stayed with a Top Chef for a while and you helped pRodasuce other top chefs going forward. You got really involved with stuff you forgave them's so good. It's obvious you forgave them. What was interesting was, you know, top Chef, we shot that first season back in 2005. Yep. And while there were other shows. Happening like Next Food Network, star and Hell's Kitchen. Um, those were in studio shows. So this was the first sort of reality culinary show that was like out in the field. Yeah. Yeah. As well as in a studio. Right. Um, and so at the time, culinary pRodasucers were very used to. You know, dumpin stir shows and there mm-hmm. There wasn't, there wasn't a type of culinary pRodasucer for the type of show that Top Chef was doing. Right. You were inventing it. And Katie Christ was our, uh, culinary pRodasucer on season one, and I felt so bad for her'cause she, it was like her and an assistant and that was it. Um, and then they, I was at the time working at the French Culinary Institute pRodasucing events and continuing education. So they thought, they're like, oh, this is kind of a natural fit, and she can give us perspective as like a contestant. Um, and so they brought me into consult on season two, uh, and then gave me the supervising pRodasucer job, uh, for the finale, which was out in, on Big Island. Mm-hmm. And that was my first time in Hawaii as an adult. Yeah. And so after we shot the show. I flew over to Oahu to reconnect with my family, and that was like, right. Wow. That's so cool. That was literally the first bite of like, call it the aloha. Right, right, right, right, right. A lot because I was living in Queens. I'm like, sure. I'm like New York forever. Right. How old were you when you moved outta Hawaii? Oh shit. 30. 30. No. What moved out of Hawaii the first time? What moved me out? I, I was chasing a boy. Okay. Mm. And I needed a life. I was 36, uh, living in the city. All my friends were getting married, having babies moving out to Westchester. Mm-hmm. And Jersey and Long Island. And I was like, I need a life. And I didn't wanna, like at the time, I didn't wanna open a restaurant in New York City. Mm-hmm. It's very hard to open a restaurant in New York City. It's very hard for a minority woman to open a restaurant in New York City. So interesting. Well, especially then, um, I went to, I went, I did big fish, smaller pond, but mm-hmm. It was a place that I had been traveling to Hawaii about a year and a half before I moved there. And so I was doing popups and collabs and so the, the culinary community in Hawaii welcomed me right away, which was really lovely. and yeah, 13 years later I'm still there. Alright. So you said it was really hard to open a restaurant in New York and we all know that's the case. I mean, it's hard to open a restaurant in Jersey, but. I have heard that it's even harder to open a business in Hawaii. Is that, was it easier for you or did you just have a knack for it or, uh, I, thankfully, um, I partnered with a chef who, uh, had an established business. He had a very successful dinner restaurant for 12 years, and he was moving that restaurant to a space down the street. And so he wanted to sublease his space, turn it into a breakfast joint. I said, well, let's not just do a greasy spoon, like let's do upscale brunch. Let's do creative brunch. We can sell cocktails, we can keep the liquor license. Like we can make it a thing just because at the time, there weren't, you know, there were a lot of, there were some breakfast cafes in and around Honolulu, but you know, they dealt with very classic breakfast. A lot of sweet things like, you know, classic American breakfast, or you're eating it. You know, you're, or you're eating like a local MoCo out of a styrofoam container in a parking lot. Mm-hmm. Uhhuh, it's like one of the two uhhuh. Um, and so it was an opportunity to not only sort of create these new style brunch classics, um, as I like to term our menu, uh, but also, you know, we, we have mimosas, we've got Bloody Mary's. Right, right. It's a good time. And I think what started as this 48 seat restaurant in this one room, um, we've now moved down the street and taken over the, the partners bigger space. Um, it was just such a special little cafe because of the energy in the room. Yeah. You know, and we had like a kitchen beer fund, so at anytime somebody would tip the kitchen, kitchen would light up, bang on pots and Oh, that's great. They'd who, that they'd choo for tips and like, I love that. These guys would make bank on the weekends. That's great. That's great. I love it. So, so the restaurant, did you use a lot of Hawaiian? I mean, it's a whole different pallet of foods available in Hawaii. Uh, whole different pallet of food. And I think what I was able to do was bring my sort of personal experiences from New York and my travels and infuse that. With using local Hawaiian ingredients and being from New York I was, I was overly and abundantly committed. I still am to showcasing local pRodasuct. Mm-hmm. Hawaii is a state that imports over 95% of its food supply. Right. Wow. It will, it will never, ever be sustainable unless. The chefs, the restaurateurs, the hospitality industry Set the example. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we are, that's, that's, listen, we, we live in New Jersey Yeah. Where we grow for five months a year. And we don't grow for seven months a year. Yeah. So you gotta figure it out. You gotta figure it out. I mean, it's, and we have one of the most beautiful microclimates in the world. Mm-hmm. Um, year round. And so we're able to grow everything. And I think it's. You know, it's, yes, it's more expensive. Yes, it's more of a pain in the butt to get, you know, just distribution's a little bit harder. But I think committing to your community, committing to your neighbors, committing to food that is inherently fresher, that hasn't been sitting on a boat for two weeks. Um, tell us the name of the restaurant. Cocoa Head Cafe. So at Cocoa Head, is it mostly tourists? Is it mostly locals? No, we are 60 to 70% locals. That's great. So, and that, that they honestly kept us alive during COVID. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that I just, I see so many restaurant people miss is you can't do it alone. No. Okay. You can't a, you can't be a destination. If you're the only good restaurant around, B, you can't have good suppliers if other people aren't buying from good suppliers, right? You, that all has to happen as a, as a group, and fostering relationships with other people in your area is part of the deal. I just think that, you know, and, and don't get me wrong, I love caviar. I love all the the good stuff, and we occasionally use luxury imported ingredients in our, on our menus, but. You know, if I am a, if I'm a tourist and I'm visiting somewhere, I wanna eat local. Yeah, yeah. I wanna taste the ingredients that are grown there. I wanna taste the food that has grown there. If it's, if I am stunned, we have the busiest Cheesecake Factory in the country. I can't believe it. Can I tell you, I all the, in the same line, I go to Manhattan, New York, and there's the Cheesecake Factor and there's all the chains there, and I'm like, how do they survive? Who comes from wherever the hell you are in Bumfuck. And you come to New York to go to the same place you go to and bum farm. Listen, honestly. So like, uh, like sometimes Olive Garden is a fancy meal.'cause you don't have Olive Garden in your, in your hometown. Yeah. But I don't think that's who's in the garden. But you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it, it, it is demographic. It is access. And so I feel like what's interesting to me is a lot of people when they travel, they, they stay safe. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They stay safe, you know? Yeah. And yeah. I, I'm like, be adventurous. Yeah. Get into it. Try the things that are grown here. Try something you've never tasted before and if you only have it once, then you can say you've tried it and if you don't like it, what have you Wasted? What have you, you spent 10 minutes. There's a McDonald's on the Sean. A guys. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's a McDonald. You can, you know, it's been there. I remember living there in the eighties and I'm against it. That's all I'm saying. I'm, I'm against it. Do they sell the Burger Royale? They do indeed serve the Burger Royale. Alright, so, uh, let's talk. Go ahead, mark. Well, I wanna talk a little bit about, we cannot talk to you and not talk about, you know, 10 years into your run. A devastating fire comes and takes your restaurant. I am very fortunate that the building was all it took. You know? Right. Uh, there's a lot of other individuals in our community who are still homeless. Uh. I cannot talk to you about like the, the actual tragedy of the people that we've lost. I've, I live in a neighborhood that floods. My house is flooded, the river's been in my house twice. the flood comes and there's nothing you can do to stop it. But there's something so much scary about a fire. I'm sorry, thousand percent. I just, thousand percent. Yeah. Um, you know what was amazing is that in those first few days, our community, uh, rallied. Mm-hmm. The government was not around. Yeah. Locally and nationally. Federally. That's insane to me. We had no response. Um, yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose my words really carefully here. Um, but the, you don't have to, you're among friends. Uh, it was a complete failure mm-hmm. On behalf of our local and federal government. Yeah, I get it. I was one of, of, of hundreds of people who volunteered. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, I'll be honest. Being involved in, in food relief and all that was great, but like nobody gave me the chance to process my loss. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and that was really, really hard. I think being just so heavily involved in. disaster relief and not looking after myself, my family, my employees, because I was busy looking after everybody else. Um, and it took a good, you know, part of why I am here at Southern Smoke is because I needed help. I needed, I needed mental health care, um, and nobody was checking on me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Same. We're check, we're checking on you now. Right? And they're like, we're, we're late. Are you good? Um, we're late. I'm sorry we're late. No, it's not, but we're checking on you now. It's not. Um, but it, you know, that, that's why organizations like Southern Smoke are so important because it really is about industry looking after its own, you know? Yeah. And, uh, it's a cause I believe in so fiercely. Um, we were able to. I mean, they have donated over$400,000 to Hawaii Maui Relief Fire Fund through both emergency fund and mental health resources for our employees. Um, and that's incredible. You know, and, and so, you know, Lana is gonna take years to rebuild Los Yeah. Los Angeles. And it's such a beautiful area. Los Angeles, Asheville. Mm-hmm. All the Texas, all these communities that are experiencing natural disaster or manmade disaster. It's like it will take years. Decades to rebuild. Yeah. And how do we put that together piece by piece, you know? And so as hospitality, we're constantly asked, yearly, weekly, daily, can you guys do this event? Yep. Can you guys do that event? Can you donate your time, your money? This, like the rest of the world looks to the hospitality industry to lift everybody up. Yep. To be there and support, you know? Yep. And so it's just been a very challenging. A few years since COVID to find like where, where like is the rest of the world gonna, like what if restaurants went away? You know? Yeah. And so, yeah, I think, I think there was a reckoning of that when COVID and I think restaurants and restaurant employees really, I think we, we rose in how much the public values us and values our employees. Everybody from the dishwasher to the porter especially in the Northeast, we were closed for so long and we were without restaurants and. And I think that in the public mind now, and I think one of the reasons this is so successful with the public is people know that we're a part of their community and our small businesses help to build that community. Uh, Leanne, you, you bring up a really important point though, I think, and you know, I'm gonna talk a little outta school here. The government isn't there when there's also no oversight on insurance companies when the emergency comes. Yeah. Right. They're, they're not there. Right. Okay. And you're relying on. The kindness of other people. Okay. And luckily for me, lot of great friends, lot of great people. just something that happened in, in our home, okay? There was a government program for, mortgage relief, In 2021 when my house flooded. That mortgage relief came through this past May. Yeah. Okay. Here's your grant to help you through 20, 21. Five years late. Guess when I didn't need that? Mortgage relief? Yeah. 2025 I'm fine. But if you had been on the brink in 2021, if I had been on the brink in 2021, that that well intention program that was there to help people and I love it and it's great, but it wasn't there when I needed it. It would've gotten to an empty address. And that's why we need things like Southern Smoke and that's why we need people like you. To be out there. So lean what people need it the most. Lean, I wanna tell you, it's all important stuff we're talking about, but I also wanna say, I finally got to eat your food today. Oh, thanks. I've been watching you cook food, food, food for years, and your food is awesome. Thanks. So, so freaking delicious. Thank you. So what's next? It's been a crazy year. I mean, I've been on the road, uh, for the past month and a half. I cook the Emmy's in la. I went to Japan to check on the restaurant in Osaka. Did did a menu change for the evening. Mm-hmm. Um, I just shot a show in la What's a show? What show? Uh, 24 and 24. Oh, great. Yeah. We show crazy endurance test. Uh, I, I go shoot TOC next week. Excellent. Yeah. So A TOC is next. Shooting for TOC starts in October. Amazing. How crazy Do you know when that like, like that's the thing that people don't understand. So a show like TOC happens and then you guys all gotta all hold it in. No results, no nothing until it actually airs. We're busy, ill be honest. It's like you finish a show, you breathe a sigh of relief and then you go back to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're wa you know, it's like the fall is the busy time. So you go through the holidays, you get through the madness of holidays and it's like kids on spring break and then yeah. And then it's basketball season and TLC's back on. Get your brackets ready. Well lean what I'm gonna tell you, the world is a better place when you are cooking food for people. It really is. That's awesome. Well, thank you so Muchs. Well thank you. Thanks for Well, well I enjoy it and I'm really, um, again, happy to be here with Southern Smoke with dozens of other chefs who are just equally committed and, and we are really pleased that you took time out of your Yeah, thank you. Important day today to come and talk with us. Thank you. Alright, go, go feed some hungry people. All cheers guys. Thanks Ian. Thanks so much. Bye. Thanks, take care.