the-restaurant-guys_2_12-07-2025_131420: 0:48

Hey, so you were about to listen to a show that Mark and I recorded down at the Food and Wine Classic in Charleston, South Carolina. This show is one of two shows that we are posting from the festival. We had so many great people to talk to. It was terrific. Thursdays, we normally have a rewind show, but this Thursday will be part two of Mark Pascal and Francis shot the restaurant guys from the Food and Wine Classic on Thursday's show we have another set of really cool people coming to join us. Man Chohan, who is a bundle of energy, will be with us. You've probably seen her on tv. We have Carrie Moray from Callie's Hot Little Biscuit. You may not know much about that, but we do. But they are hot little biscuits. And Robert Moss, who writes for Southern Living and he's an author of six books, he's got his own Substack. It's really terrific. He'll be joining us as well. So enjoys today's show and don't miss Thursday. Hello everybody and welcome to the Charleston Food and Wine Classic. You are listening to the restaurant guys. I'm Mark Pascal, and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together, we own stage left in Ka Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Hello, mark. Hey, Francis. Busy day. We have ahead of us today. We have, uh, yeah. We got a lot to do. Yeah, I should we, let's tell people who's coming on. As the show goes on, we have Ivy Odom coming to join us. She's the senior lifestyle editor at Southern Living. She's also a TV personality. You've seen her around quite a bit. Our old friend James London from Chubby Fish. And his new cocktail bar seahorse is gonna come and join us here at the festival in the little podcast booth. and, uh, we've got, hunter, hunter Lewis, editor of Food and Food and Wine Magazine. At the Food and Wine Classic. He's like the king of this whole place. It's gonna be great. He's the king. Yeah, but they're not here yet. So what are we talking about in the meantime? Fill in time. Mark. Fill in, fill in. So we're gonna talk a little bit about Charleston and this great city and the, cool people that we keep running into at this festival. It's just, it, you know, every day we're running somebody. Interesting. I have to say that this thing is very impressive. They control the crowds very well. Yeah, it's super well run and it gives you time to talk to some of these folks and everybody's so friendly. I think that's just a function of being in Charleston, but, uh, everybody's so friendly and the, there's a bunch of really good food to try and a beverage stands and everybody's having a great time. Well, you know, one of the things that's different about food personalities as celebrities Yeah. Different than any, any other celebrity Okay. Is they're approachable. Partially because they're in hospitality, right? Yeah. So when you talk to a food professional at one of these events, I mean, we talked to Stephanie Azar at, at, you know, you walk up to her, she's putting out little plates of whatever, and you, taste her food and you, and you talk to for a couple minutes. She's a hospitality professional. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So that's, on top of, being a celebrity chef and all the other things that come out first. She's, here for hospitality. Yeah. Yeah. So. When you come to one of these festivals, it's not the same, you know, as if you met Paul McCartney. Right. Paul McCartney's a celebrity first and it's hospitality's not his thing. Right. I think he's a songwriter first. Okay. He's a songwriter first. Okay. But being a songwriter is a, doesn't mean he has to be nice to you, right? Right. It's if you're in hospitality, that is because you are nice to people and you like to welcome people and I am buttressing your point. I've met Paul McCartney on the street. He's a very nice guy. Yeah, but he's not in hospitality's a different Yeah. He never gives you anything to eat either. The bastard, he just walks down. he doesn't even pop out with a song as you're walking down the road. You know what I mean? What the hell Paul get, get with the program, be in hospitality. So walking around, eating little tidbits of food, drinking cool little things while you're talking to these people who. Are celebrities'cause they are, right. they're on Food Network. They're on, Network tv. They're writers for magazines, they're celebrities. but it's different because they're hospitality first and they have so many different people here that one of the things that I am really surprised at is you are really able to make a human connection. Mm-hmm. And, and by not having it be so many people packed in and waiting online to get your little schmitz food and spend one second with somebody. The comradery that builds among people. It really is kind of like being in a restaurant. People are having a great time talking to each other, sitting to have a drink, Southern smoke had the same kind of vibe we talked about it in when we were down there, in October. The vibe is you can go and talk to people. Yeah. And you're not spending all day waiting online. You're not at Disney. You know, everything's fast pass, you know, the right. It's just you're automatically at the front of the line. It, it, it's a very human experience. And I'll tell you something, just being the restaurant guys, and this is the final insight because I know that, uh, Ivy is, uh, just about to arrive. Um, but one of the insights about their, their food world, and I think people like this, even if they're not food professionals. You know, there's an Irish saying. They say, you know, it's a small world. You wouldn't wanna have to paint it. Right. So then, but uh, but it really is. I thought you were gonna break into the Disney song.'cause I referenced Disney. No, no. After all I am not. Yeah. Um, but no, but it is a small world and what's amazing is if you come to these things on a regular basis and you go to food things on a regular basis to people, you know, and of course we as the restaurant guys'cause we're old guys, you know, I'm amazed at how many people we do know. We're like, oh, look who it is. Yeah. Anyway, so listen, we're gonna be talking with Ivy Odom in just a moment. You stick with us. don't go away. We'll be right back.

the-restaurant-guys_1_11-14-2025_170506: 6:02

So we are at the Charleston Food and Wine Classic, and we are thrilled to welcome Ivy Odom. She's a chef, a recipe developer host in one of the bright new voices shaping modern southern cooking. You may know her from her work with Southern Living. She makes food feel traditional and totally new. Rooted in heritage, but never stuck in it. She's here at the classic sharing her passion, her palette, and her joy in the kitchen, and we are so happy she is joining us for a quick conversation. Hi yo, and welcome to the show. Thank y'all for having me. This is so fun. We're really happy you're here. Can I tell you one of the best things about, we're remote, primarily an audio podcast, right? We have video out on Instagram and the like, but your accent adds richness to the oral landscape of this show. Oh, authenticity at the very. for a long time in college to lose my accent. No, I know. What was I thinking? What were you thinking? It's charming. Well, he, the story is that my name is Ivy. I learned to properly say Ivy instead of Ivy. Ivy. Correct. Uhhuh.'cause people thought my name was Abby. Oh, yeah. And now I embrace it and I'm, I'm Ivy, wherever I go. And people love it. You know, it's true. Well, and you, so you are in the culinary landscape and you work with Southern. Living. I do best job. But yeah. And, you are really about southern cuisine and southern hospitality. And what I like about your book, we have your book here and as anybody can see, you see how dogeared it is and to pay that turned out, that's the proper way to do a southern. This is like a teddy bear whose nose has been rubbed off and loving too hard. Right? This is a great book, but in. But in your book and in your other writing and your, and your appearances, you don't just talk about food. You talk about food and stories in a way that's uniquely southern. Thank you. Can you tell us what is uniquely southern and relatable? And relatable? Thank you. Yeah. That's the goal. To be authentic, I think like. I'm doing my job Right. When someone sees their self represented mm-hmm. In something that I'm saying, is their experience exactly identical to mine? No. Did they grow up in the same part of the south that I grew up in? No. But if some little element of the story that I'm telling. Resonates with them in any way, shape or form than I have done my job correctly. And that is just what I love most about food. It brings us all together. Like the dishes at the end of the day that we grew up with might be slightly different, but the sentiment behind them is the same. And I just love that when you gather around a table and start eating like. People just start talking and telling stories and we're all a lot more similar than we like to admit. Are you aware that sentiment and cinnamon are very close in your accent? Yeah, they, yeah, I've been told, you know how like Instagram adds the automatic caption? Oh, I'm sure it misunderstands you. It's been misunderstood. Can I, can I say that my cousins, I have a lot of cousins who still live in Ireland and um. When the iPhone first came out with voice recognition and I thought it was wonderful, and I said, Hey Kyle, how's this thing work? Like it doesn't fricking work for me. I don't understand. It took about a year to pick up the Irish accent. Yeah. When your cousins are drinking. Yeah. It's just a foreign iPhone. Gives up, shuts foreign language. It just shuts down. When I'm drinking, my southern accent comes out even further. Oh. Or when I'm talking to my parents or whatever you said parents. I love it. So here's a question for you, but let's talk about you drinking. You are in true to form a bourbon lover. I love bourbon. Talk to me. We are, we are, we are siblings in this regard. I feel like a lot of women are intimidated by bourbon. I know. That's what's so impressive. This is the best spirit out there. I agree. So why do you love it and what do you love about it? I love the richness of bourbon. I love that you can have it on the rocks. Like I would never have. I know a lot of people are like big tequila fans. I love tequila, I love a margarita, but I'm not gonna drink tequila on the rocks. I would, I have. Mm-hmm. But bourbon is just so much. Richer. I love that. It's part of my southern culturally heritage, so I'm proud to drink a spirit that originated right here in the south. it is way more versatile, I think, than people. Oh. Think that it's, oh yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. You can have like a deep, rich, bitter drink. You can have a sweet one. You can have like a very light and refreshing one, and there aren't a lot of ways that you can do that with vodka. True or tequila for all. Well, vodka is a, is a, uh, unless you're drinking straight, vodka is a liquor delivery mechanism. Right? Exactly. And bourbon is a flavor delivery mechanism. And a texture delivery mechanism. Exactly. So do you drink it straight, neat on the rocks or in c? All of the above. Yes. I love it. My answer to that is yes. I, why do I picture you? Please tell me. You make an amazing jub. I make an amazing Jule. I make an amazing old fashioned, I love a boulevard. Oh, we're, I feel like. the Manhattan is Chicago. The martini is New York, and the bourbon is the south. A thousand percent. I, I'm gonna tell you. I drink 10 boulevardiers for every Negroni I drink. And I know every Negroni's the cool drink and everybody wants to drink Negronis. But the Boulevardier where basically you substitute bourbon in for gin for me is that's I I 10 of them. I drink 10 boulevards for every ne I love them. I'm also a Negroni fan, but in my book I have, this is like. One of my favorite bourbon drinks as much as I love the others. A bourbon basil smash oh's. A Dale DeGraff inspired, it's so refreshing. It's got lemon in it. It's got a little bit of simple syrup, and then basil infused. It is like it will make every one a bourbon lover. So we are bartenders at heart. You're more chef at heart. Correct. But so we wanna take, but I'll, it'll always go to booze if you're talking to Matt, Francis, and Mark. But I wanna start with a sooner or later, I wanna start with a paragraph from your book. First of all, this book, my Southern Kitchen by Ivy Odom, pick it up. It's a great book to read through for enjoyment and then to stick on your shelf and take the dog ear pages and make something out of it when you're ready, especially if you're gonna have that long party in the summertime. Oh yes. But I wanna read you the first paragraph of your book.'cause this is. A, a sentiment to a lot of the people we talk to, especially whether they're professional chefs in the kitchen or not. I'll just read really quickly in the introduction of your book. You write, if you ever need to find me, look in the kitchen first. I'm not hiding. I'm probably just hungry. The kitchen is where I go to unwind, get inspired, and feed the people I love. Whether I'm cooking in front of the camera tasting dish on Southern living test kitchen, or sharing baking tip with fans, my job keeps me mostly in the kitchen and I wouldn't have it any other way. Amen. I haven't read that since I wrote it, maybe, which is. Thanks for reading it for me, it was moving and, and I really feel like in, in my, and I'm, you know, I don't come from a tremendous culinary tradition. I'm Irish Mark's Italian, but what? But life happens. I come from a tremendous Yeah, I was about to say, it's hard to, if you're Italian to not, but. But life. Ha. The real life happens in the kitchen. Uh, generosity emanates from the kitchen. You cry in the kitchen, you celebrate in the kitchen. The dining room is for holidays and when people come over. Do you agree? I agree. I am pro dining room uhhuh. I'm pro like I love an eat in kitchen, but when you're having a meal, I'm like, let's go to the dining room. But like, we're gathering in the kitchen ahead of time. Okay. The kitchen, when I have a party at my house. The kitchen's full of people. It's never anywhere else. I can't kick them out. I can't get, get people outta my kitchen. You're in my way. I'm going toold you What? It's, it's going to happen sooner later. One of the reason I bought my apartment is my, I am, I live in a two bedroom apartment in Jersey City and my kitchen kind looks, is a counter between me and everybody else. I'm like, don't step over that line unless you're helping and authorized to help. Amen. But I get to talk to everybody while it's happening. All right. Can we talk some kitchen stuff please. Alright, so I loved, I looked at your pantry, And what your pantry is is like a lot of other pantries. You've talked to a lot of food professionals about pantries. Um, but I've noticed a few things what that were southern. Obviously and I, and I agree with that, are particularly Southern. I agree with your family. Francis is a stupid Duke's mayonnaise fan. Yep. It's the bad. He's been been talking about Duke's mayonnaise to me for 25 years. He's like, went out with Jennifer. Well, what kind of mayonnaise do you eat? We, we eat Hellman's. We're from New York. Nah, New Jersey. Nah. Hellman's. It was Jennifer who I dated in college who grew up in Louisiana, Uhhuh, who introduced me to Duke's Mayo. Never gone back. I will say I love Duke's mayonnaise. I don't hate Hellmans. I love Hellmans. They each have their purpose. Okay. They they do. What's the difference in purposes? That's a great question. There you go. Yeah. Okay. I love the tang that Dukes Tang adds. It's about the tang. It's twang on their T table. Either way, whatever. I'm about tt my accent, the whole, I love that the texture of Duke's is like more whipped, so I like to put that in my pito cheese, but like on a sandwich. Helman's is perfectly fine. Okay. I, my always take, always do. Alright. I want to talk about something else that was in your pantry since Francis brought it up. Something that's in your pantry. That is always in my pantry and it's the biggest cheat of all time and I don't think you have this in your pantry. Go. Go. The Jira Deli brownie mix. Sorry. The best, they're okay if you're not making brownies from scratch. And let's face it, especially if you have kids, I need something that's gonna shut these kids up. Okay? Jelli brownies, make it happen. Listen, I have a recipe for. Brownies in my cookbook. Right. I worked so hard on that recipe because the inspiration, the, the Ghirardelli brownie box. Yeah. I was like, I have never had a homemade brownie that tastes as good as this, and my goal is to make one that does, and I think I achieved it. However, you can't be doing that every day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. All, all right. Another thing in your pantry, I think that's particularly southern, uh, that I endorse Soha heartedly. I know Mark's gonna as well. Bacon grease. Oh, oh yeah. Liquid gold. I was like, like, like most people, right? Talk about, oh, I have bacon, but unless you're hardcore, you got some bacon grease as well, and you've the official bacon grease can. Yes. Do you have one of those? No. Where you put it into solidify. Well, okay, so we have the break bacon grease, uh, measuring cup. That works too. The Yes. The Pyrex measuring cup. Aren't I I endorse both. That's, aren't you over somebody's house and they throwing away the bacon grease. You're like, whatcha doing? Yes. It's the worst sin you can, what are you doing? That is so useful. Can I tell you a story? Please. I cooked the goose once for Christmas. As, superstorm sandy, it came into New Jersey and we thought we might be out of power for a couple of days. A and I had, and I had a Woodburn stove. No, I had cooked the, the goose two weeks before, but I had the, a goose fat on the counter and, I got a bunch of wood delivered from our Woodburn stove'cause we thought we might lose power and, but obviously a lot of people loaded wood. So the wood, I, I got a quarter wood that was wet. And it wouldn't lighten the Woodburn stove. And I had no fire starter. And I looked over on the counter and, and there was the ba and there was the goose fat. So I made like a little newspaper goose fat bombs. And I, and they lit the fire really great. Two different neighbors knocked on my door about the same, came over and they're like, Hey, for instance, what are you cooking there? It's great. I'm like, nothing. But I got some bourbon. And we sat around the fire and drank bourbon. Wow. And the storm came in. There's no fire you've ever met. Yeah, it was the whole neighborhood. Goose fat fire. I love it. The whole neighborhood. I love that story. I haven't heard that's. Story for a very long time. Uh, jarred pimentos. That's the last thing I'm gonna say from your pantry. Jarred Pimentos, what are they for? They're in your pantry. Pimento cheese, obviously. Of course there are lots of other uses for jarred pimentos. However, pimento cheese is like, like bacon grease. Must be in my fridge at all times. Uh, so Jennifer, mark, wife and our producers from the south and from Ohio. Yes. Well, the Midwest. And pimento cheese. Big part of, and I, I've never quite, what is this thing? Whatcha are using? Roast red. Don't have it. Pepper. What's hap, whatcha doing? Did you know pimento cheese actually originated in New York? I did not. Yes, y'all. It's not as southern as we like to claim. Pito cheese. You can have it. That is rude. I love, I'm, I'm so sorry. New York pimento cheese as it like first became a thing was cream cheese with the pimentos. Yeah, the southerners did the mayonnaise and switched it to like cheddar. So wheat take claim to penig cheese's as well. That's an improvement. Okay. The cheddar's definitely an improvement. That agree? Very. I agree. Hundred percent. Alright. Can I just talk about, I wanna talk about a recipe from your book. cast iron s'mores. Oh yeah. What a great idea. Thank you. I love That's the one you picked out. Why? There's like 107 other ones in there. Yeah. And I never know what someone's gonna say, but that's the one that I said going home and making that. Well, it's so easy. So tell everybody about it. So you literally take a cast iron skillet, put your chocolate chips or any kind of broken up chocolate bars in the bottom of it, put that in the oven to kind of warm it up. The chocolate will then melt, top it with marshmallows, put that back in the oven. They get brown on the top, and then you get some. The crackers that you eat. Graham Graham cracker. You did? It's a smore. Fondue, yes. A smore de, if you will. It is amazing. Wow. I guess. And you don't have to have a, an open fire in order to do No. Right. In the boiler or not. Right. Alright, so, so one of the things in your book that I, that I really loved and, and we've been, we've been joking about recipes and pantry and all that stuff, but. Hospitality started, starts with your family, right? You started, you, you, your, you, your parents were great at hospitality. You learned it from them. I learned it from my grandmother who just, you know, every Sunday we had people at the hou, she had people at her house and it was a, you know, rolled for all day long, that kind of thing. You can't teach. That kind of hospitality. It, it has to be ingrained in, in you and in family and in your, in your kitchen. You know, Francis was talking about your kitchen before, you know, you're, you're in the kitchen with grandma. She's cooking or your mom and dad there. There's something about cooking with, with your elders that way that stays with you forever. I was so inspired by the way my mom like. Kept our house. Not in like a way like cleanliness manner, though she did a great job with that. But the way that like it was like constantly a revolving door. Mm-hmm. We had someone at our house more often than we were ever just alone as our family, which is such a great way to grow up and like always. Show that my house is open no matter who you are, what time, where you're coming from, there was always food on the table and it didn't have to be fancy food. Right. And she was constantly in the kitchen. I will give her that. But like she was also enjoying the party and that's like something that I feel like one of the biggest lessons I learned from her, that people. Enjoy the party because they see that you're enjoying them yourself. And if you can do that and embrace it and have fun and like, then that is how you show true hospitality. Mm-hmm. I have to, I get wrapped around the axle when I throw party sometimes, and I find myself working through my own party. Yes. And I, sometimes I'll hire someone the, from the restaurant when I, when I get stuck at the sink doing dishes, I'm like, this is stupid. Just move away from the sink. Let the dishes pile up. Yeah. And go talk to your friends. Go enjoy your friends. Go talk to your friends. Yeah. That's what it's all about. Any parting words? Any, any final per final pearls, symbolism. I gotta ask before, before she goes away. So we have to talk. We, we, we started with the cast iron skillet with the smores. Cast iron being passed from generation to generation. Oh, my best cast iron skillet is my Nanas Uhhuh, and I have, she had such a large collection of which I am the owner of a few. My mom is still the owner of the, the majority of it. And she's like, you'll get these one day, and I get to enjoy them and cook with them whenever I'm at her house. And it is just so special. Something about it. It just, it's seasoned, well, it cooks better than my new cast iron skillets and mm-hmm. Just, you can feel the love and I love that, like something so small, like the seasoning that she started in that cast iron skillet is still there, isn't gonna taste the way that she made it, but like, my daughter will get to taste her great-grandmother's food because we're cooking it in that same skillet. So special. Well, the thing about the kitchen and, and feeding people and the hearth is it's a very ancient tradition. And you like, there's something about cooking on cast iron that it's substantial. Yeah. It's connected to history and you know, it's something about there aren't many pieces of equipment that you could like bury in the backyard, dig them up five years later, clean'em off and cook with'em again. You know, that, that, that's a, there's a real. Substance to that. I I, I also love cast iron cooking. It's nothing like you can't get a, you can't get a fry sear on a steak in any other vessel other than cast iron. There's a cast iron skillet ribeye in my book too. It's the, the Best Steak in the World. I love it. I, I gotta tell you, it was the, it was the chicken thighs for me though. So good. That was, that was the one where I was like, I gotta get the cast irons spec canon and pan out and start cooking chicken thighs. They're the best, most easiest things to make, so I highly recommend it. I Odom, we've only had the few minutes here with you, taking you away from the Charleston Food and Wine Classic. Um, it's been a pleasure. We have to have you on the show for a full on job. Absolutely. I would love Absolutely. Y'all are so fun. We could go for two hours. Yes. Yeah. Without a doubt. Yeah. Talk about more Well with bourbon in hand post baby. Way better. Yeah, way better. That's what, yeah. We'll come with a cocktail. Well, thanks for coming. You are great. The book's great and everybody out there you can find out more about Ivy's book. It's, um, my Southern Kitchen. You can see her on the Southern Living Channel. And, On Southern living and, and, uh, uh, you should check it out. Ivy Odom's been a real pleasure. Thank y'all. Y'all are the best.

the-restaurant-guys_2_11-14-2025_174335: 22:55

Hey, we're back once again at the Charleston Food and Wine Classic, and we are thrilled to welcome one of Charleston's most acclaimed culinary voices. James London returns to our show. He's the chef and owner of Chubby Fish and Seahorse. Chubby Fish is one of the hottest and hardest to get into restaurants in the low country. It's a place that is redefined what modern coastal cooking can be, and we're thrilled to have him here today. Hey, James. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me. You have had a busy few months. We were last here in March. And, uh, some really cool stuff has happened since we last met. between New York Times top 50, north American, top 50, Michelin guide. Some good stuff here. Yeah, no, it's been great. Um, it all kind of happened back to back to back we also got. Top 20 most in influential restaurants. Right. Uh, in eater of the past 20 years, which is wild. but yeah. So it's been, it was just bang bang, bang. Uh, well, you know how it happened is you came onto the restaurant guys podcast and then discovered They heard it. They heard it. Yeah. That's what, that's, that's how it works. Thank you. Oh, you do owe it all to us. And you're welcome. You're welcome. it's very interesting when, Michelin comes to town or when, when you get those sort of accolades. Well, Michelin's only 10 days ago, so That's right. Okay. But when you get those sort of accolades and you're in a small place, and especially you're not in Chicago, Los Angeles, New York. How does that affect, because one of the things when we talked last time was you really value being a part of your neighborhood, being a part of the community. And there's always a danger when you become that world famous restaurant that everybody, you know, Japanese tourists fly thousands of miles to come to your restaurant and, you know, how do you keep your restaurant part of the local cuisine and keep the locals from being pushed out and not being able to get a table? Well, I think part of the reason why, you know, the whole line thing that we have, you know, people gripe about it, but at the end of the day, and we set that up so that people can come to our restaurant so that locals can come to our restaurant. You know, we kind of like really even the playing field, so you don't have to worry about. You know, if we put reservations up, you'd have bots that just go on there and they snag all your reservations and then, and then they're flipping them to people. Even if it's not a bot, people would pay other people to make their reservations for it. Absolutely. And, and what happens five years down the road, like it's just like mm-hmm. That that sea is coming right? When the Japanese tourists stop coming and the locals don't go because you can't, they're like, oh, you can never get in there. So they don't come, and then you're dead. Absolutely. And so, you know, that line thing, like we, we really put that in there so that it could be as democratic as a, as a playing field as possible. Tell people how, because it is very interesting. We talked about it last time, and I think that with all these accolades, it, you wound up being prescient because it's, it's really important. And I think facing what you face it is the way that the locals can get into your restaurant. Tell people how, how getting a reserv, getting a table at your place works. So basically you just show up in the afternoon. Um, so we tell people to come at four o'clock and uh, so a line starts forming and eventually five o'clock the door's open. The host walks outside. Uh, they take your name, your number, and they give you a time to come back. Or they say, Hey, would you like to go ahead and sit right now? Um, and so it's. It's pretty easy. It's pretty painless. The line is friendly. It's fun. You can bring, uh, bring a book, bring a laptop. People bring lawn chairs. More importantly, you can get a bottle of wine from you. Yes. And um, dude lines, it's a, it's a great time's. A I hate, unless you gimme a glass of wine while I'm staying online and then I, then I don't hate to Well then you're not online, you're just kind of hanging out with your friends wine. Yeah, exactly. Uh, in the outdoor cafe. Yeah. And you know, the thing with that line is that, knock on wood right now. Pretty much everyone in that line, you know, I'd say 98% of that line will get a seat that night. Mm-hmm. That's great. And so, like, we love that. I, I, I've been to restaurants in Charleston, like when I first came back from San Francisco, where I would go there 3, 4, 5 times and every time it's, oh, I'm sorry. We're fully committed. Mm-hmm. And I hate that. Yeah. I hate that. Yeah. I, you know, I wanna talk about, you know, restaurant guys don't like to talk about what everybody else is talking about. So. Seahorse was a fledgling operation. When we spoke to you last, it was maybe six, eight weeks out of the gate cocktail bar. The cocktail bar next door. What, what's happening at seahorse? What's, what's happened in the last, you know, six, eight months since last we spoke in, in the cocktail bar and in that space? What's, what's going on with that? Are you, you pleased with what's happening there? Absolutely. I, I love. Seahorse, obviously we, we put a ton of work in the seahorse. Mm-hmm. More than we needed to put in there. But honestly, like, we wanted a place that was gonna be around for 40 years. Mm-hmm. And so I wanted it to, I wanted to put everything we had in the seahorse and, you know, so I put a lot of love, a lot of money into that building. And it's been great. You know, it's really kind of come into its own, I've had some staffing changes, that I've had to make. And this is the restaurant business. Just in case you forgot that some staffing changes are, well, you know, for, for us at Chubby Fish, we have little to no. Staffing changes. Mm-hmm. Ever. Um, and so, you know, it takes, but it, that Chubby Fish has been around for seven years, so it takes time to get up to, um, that speed where that culture kind of permeates throughout the entire organization. And so when you're opening up a new spot, yes, there's some overlap with chubby fish, but you're still having to create that culture mm-hmm. And make sure that you're, you know. All of your employees are treating each other and the guests the same way that we do at Chubby Fish. I remember when we opened Kaha Lombardi and it was on our second floor of our restaurant and a bunch of our employees, you know, kind of, kind of migrated. Yeah. A little migrated, into the second floor. But I still felt like every night there were waiters on my floor who were somebody else's waiters, and they were good waiters. But they were somebody else's waiters. They weren't the people, you know? And, and our tradition was always start as a busser, work your way up to evacuater, become a front waiter, become a captain, and work from there. And that was a two or three year process. And, and it worked wonderfully for us as, as a feeder for our restaurants. And then all of a sudden you, you expand by double, which is what we did. And you know, basically, you know, I think seahorses basically double the amount of space for you. Yep. Then all of a sudden you, it's, it's somebody else's waiters. And, and all of those things that were ingrained in every single person who worked for you are not ingrained in every single person who's, who's on your board. The culture hasn't congealed around them. It's, and, and again, those people were not bad waiters. Okay. Those, they were not bad waiters and, and they did their job, but they weren't indoctrinated into the stage left way of this is how it's done and I don't want it done any other way. Absolutely. Um, you know, I wholeheartedly agree with that. And, you know, chubby Fish has such unique style of service. There's no other place like it. No. Mm-hmm. Um, I agree. There's no other place like it. I think that's absolutely true. It's such a, it's such a bizarre mm-hmm. Strange, organic style of service that really, really works in our space. Why don't you tell people about this style of service? Sure. And so. Our style of service. You know, my wife, Yo-Yo, leads the service team. Uh, she has a couple people that work with her, Kate Capasso, Danny Miller. And, um, between those three women, they create this synergy in service that. It feels very friendly. It feels very down to earth. It feels like stepping into someone's living room. Uh, not well, stuffy at all. That doesn't happen unless it's organic. Right. You cannot tell somebody, okay. Make it feel this way. Right, right. You can't, that has to happen from, from inside a human being, and I could teach you how to manifest that, but has to come from inside the human being. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that's, you know, I fell in, in love with my wife for. A myriad of different reasons, but one, one reason for sure. Holy moly. Just watching her interact with a guest on the floor and watching how she can just totally take someone and give them the absolute best dining experience of their entire life. man, that's attractive to me. I hear you. I hear you. I have one of those. thanks Mark. Oh, you mean Jennifer? I'm sorry to laugh so hard, Francis. Um, one of the things about that is, I mean, it's great that she's an owner and your place is small enough that it does feel like everything is under control when you go in there and you're, you welcome to my house and this is my house, and she keeps things moving and it feels great. It's got a great buzz. Um, so I wanna drill down into something you said a little earlier'cause we have a lot of, professionals who listen to this podcast and, and a lot of people who would like to own a restaurant or a bar one day. and I think they, and I would like to hear what, when you say we invested more than we had to, uh, in money and other ways to make sure this, to, to build a cocktail bar that's gonna be there for 40 years. One of the things that you did that if you were like, listen, I'm gonna open a cocktail bar, it's gonna be next to my restaurant, it's gonna catch some more overflow, it's gonna be great little cocktail bar, but you were mindful and purposeful about making a cocktail bar to last that's gonna be there when you're as old as we are. So, so what are the things you did in building that to make a business that would last? So I, I think I put the infrastructure in upfront, um, that needed to be there in order to, you know, the, the stuff that's gonna stick around for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years. Like what kind of infrastructure? I mean, I put a rationale combi in the, uh, in the kitchen for the bar in the kitchen or the cocktail bar. By the way, that would be the first time I've ever heard anybody putting a$14,000 oven in the kitchen of a, that's what happens when a chef designs a cocktail bar. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, you know, so, and, and the way seahorse is not. It's simply a cocktail bar. There's also two private dining rooms that are upstairs. Mm-hmm. Uh, where we did our last podcast. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and then it has its own kitchen. I have a dumb waiter, you know, it's the old Charleston Single House. So it's three stories. Uh, on the third floor we have an office. In one side we have wine and liquor storage. On the other side, there's a dumb waiter that goes from the first floor up to the third floor. Dumb waiters are expensive. Yeah, dumb waiters are more expensive than elevators. Um, but it really. It really makes that entire establishment in terms of we can, we can send all of our wine, uh, and liquor up to the third floor using the dumb waiter as opposed to having someone truck up, uh, the stairs with all those cases of booze. So, you know, I'm thinking about the employees, I'm thinking about the private dining, uh, and that the private dining gives us the space that we didn't have at Chubby Fish because the Chubby Fish communal table is gonna max out at 12 people. Mm-hmm. So now we can do parties of anywhere up to like 26 people. That's great. In those private dining rooms, and it makes a big difference. And then down at the bar, we used as many, um, items in the original building as we could in order to kind of tie in the old and the new, and then the bar itself. I consulted with Eurobar and I don't know if you guys have ever seen a eurobar set up, but it's, it's basically this, this build on top, uh, situation. And so your ice wells right in front of you, all of your garnishes are right in front of you as opposed to being on top of the drink rail. And uh, oh, that's Clemente Bar, I think has one of those totally. Totally. Clemente Bar has, so I, I, I put in a Euro bar. Mm-hmm. All, all the way down the line at, uh, seahorse so that, you know, we had the best of the best up front and, you know, my, I wasn't, I wasn't, I didn't wanna build something where three or four years down the rail, down the road, we had to come back in and redo it. I wanted it done right the first time. Alright, well, speaking of not doing it right and not putting a dumb waiter in that, so, so when we built Captain Lombardi, which is on our second floor. Much of, some of our wine storage is on the first floor, but much of our wine storage is in the basement. So you order a bottle of wine, just like you said, somebody's gotta run down two flights of stairs, run back up two flights of stairs. Well, in fairness though, we have an elevator that they use sometimes. Yes, absolutely. But so, but one of the things that in your training you learn when a wine person gets the duke for wine, this is what you're taught, you're taught. The table is on fire and only the bottle of wine in your hand can put it out. Run. Run. Okay, so, so that is to be the mentality. Yep. That you have. The moment you receive a wine dup, the table is on fire and only this bottle of wine will put it out. Mark. We can't let the staff listen to this show. He has a dumb waiter. They're gonna ask us for a dumb waiter. Um, so who's coming to seahorse? How is it working out? Who is the clientele? Is it people before or after dinner? Is it different people? Is it locals, is it bartenders from around? We're, we're going at some point this weekend before the weekend's out. Love it. Who's going? Who's going to seahorse? So seahorse. Um, you know, I would say probably. 60% of seahorse clientele is waiting for chubby fish. Okay. Or coming after their meal at Chubby Fish. And then beyond that, uh, that other 40%, you know, you're looking at people who are dining around town and coming to seahorse before or after. Um, and then you have, you do have some industry, uh, cocktail people, uh, that are coming in as well. And how are the weights at Seahorse versus, uh, at, at Chubby Fish? You know? We're, we're honestly, we're rarely on a wait. And part of the reason why is we've, we've reopened our, our, we've opened our courtyard. Mm-hmm. I don't think you guys have, we sat, we sat in the courtyard. Okay, cool. We sat in the courtyard. Cool. Um, so the courtyard's open, you know, it's fully conditioned at this point. We have nice lights and the whole shebang. Yeah. We were there. Maybe, maybe you had three little tables out there that were just kind of overflow tables. Okay. So now we have like this nice pergola, right. We're growing vines over the top of it. Mm-hmm. It's really, um, it's like a little garden oasis. so that's doubled our seating. before I think we sat maybe 32 inside seahorse and um, so we just tacked on another almost 30 outside. You're in South Carolina. So in New Jersey, that's then I get to say, oh, in three months, a year I get to use that. Very different down here. So it's a, it's very different. My outdoor cafe, I think runs a little differently than your outdoor space. Yeah. I got heaters coming in, so, um, oh, great. It should be, should be ready to go year round. Terrific. Um. James London, it has been great for you to take 20 minutes outta your time here at the Charleston Food Mine Classic to talk to us. Um, so happy we kicked off your success now. You're welcome. It was great. Uh, no we're really what's happened to you, the accolades you received in the last year, the recognition which we knew you deserve when we visited, totally deserve it. Sorry. Totally, sir. Amazing, and congratulations on that. And, uh, we'll see you at uh, seahorse before we fly back to New Jersey. Alright, sounds good. Looking forward to it guys. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So we'll be back in a moment. You're listening to us on Restaurant Podcast.

the-restaurant-guys_2_11-15-2025_121936: 40:12

Hey everybody. Welcome back. Hunter Lewis' editorial voice has shaped how America cooks, eats, and talks about food. He's the editor-in-chief of Food and Wine, which also makes him in a very real sense, the host of the party we're enjoying right here at the Charleston Food and Wine Classic. Uh. Before leading Food and Wine Hunter held key roles at some of the country's most influential publications. Bon Appetit, Southern Living Editor-in-Chief at Cooking Light. He brings both a journalist's curiosity and a cook's intuition to his work. It's a combination that makes his perspective uniquely valuable in today's culinary world. Hey, hunter, welcome to the show. Thank you, gentlemen. Thanks for inviting us to your party. Hey, it's a, uh, hell of a party. Second annual Food and Wine Classic in Charleston. it's feeling good. It is feeling good. Yeah, man, it's, it's really, it's really tremendous. And I, I want to talk about the party'cause it is the classic, it's really special and it's super high end. Um, but I want to talk to you about Food and Wine magazine. I, I, I think it's really, mark and I have been in this game for a while, both in running restaurants and in food media, and. When we started the Restaurant Guys podcast 20 years ago, we were subscribed, you know, the, the stack of magazines that would arrive on our desks every month. It was, you know, food and Wine was there, right? But so was Gourmet and Bon Appetit and Saver and Art, culinary, and on and on and on. Every local paper had a, a food critic and probably a wine writer. Um, and there were features editors in the food sections of these papers, and it's a, it was really easy to get guests back then. It was, it was also ideas. You just flip through the pile on your desk. Um, but now it's a different culinary landscape. It's a rough world out there for a food publication. Yet food and wine is, is the, is going strong. How the hell are you doing that and doing such quality work. Got a great team. Uh, also thank you for saying that. Uh, I've got a great team, uh, work for a really strong company and they believe in food and wine. Mm-hmm. And I know what it's like to work for companies when they're, when they don't believe in your publication. Right. And, uh, it starts there and, uh, and then it extends to our audience. You know, they, they love this magazine. they love the events that we produce. And, you know, I, the way I think about it right now is that, you know, we're really working on, Creating new experiences, creating a sense of surprise and delight, which is what the creation of a magazine is, uh, you. And then taking that into a physical space at an event and creating even more surprise and delight. Surprise and delight. That's an old culinary term. Yeah. We've, that's restaurants a long time. Well, and then, you know, another restaurant term, I think about it, like heading into this week, it's like, uh, under promise, over deliver. Mm-hmm. You know, you gotta market this thing and, you know, dude, you're, you're a restaur. I'm not a restaurateur, but No, but you're bringing restaur principles to the magazine under promise, over deliver, surprise and delight. Like food and wine is, we operate in this liminal zone between what I call the civilians. Mm-hmm. Which are, are mass millions of, of consumers and our customers. And then the pros, which are, are hospitality folks like you guys. And that's a very niche and influential audience. And the way that we operate is that we cover. We, we write and we produce for both audiences. Um, but we wouldn't be able to do an event like this without our relationship with the hospitality industry. And they trust us to come and participate. And then the consumers wanna meet and taste and learn and, and have a great time with these chefs and wine pros. And so that's really the, the, the magic of food and wine is operating in that liminal zone. Between both audiences and then bringing them together in these spaces like today. Well, one of the things that Francis was just saying is, and, and actually you alluded to, is. Our job as Respir, right? Is to make you say wow. Right? You gotta say, you gotta say it. Gotta make you say, wow. And you walk into this festival here and you're not here 10 seconds and you're like, wow, this is neat. Yeah. You know, I'm looking across the room at Maneet Johan over there and you know, I'm saying, wow, what a great festival you have here. Yeah. You know, so you got all these great people doing great things, wineries and, and cocktail people and rest tours and chefs and you, you've kind of got them all into this, One little place all for this short period of time. It, it's really, I love what you've done with the footprint of your magazine, right? Because all the magazines that just are trying to be magazines right now and not do anything else, and, and just say, okay, well I'm gonna print it and everybody's gonna read it. I. They either didn't succeed or aren't succeeding, and you guys have, have expanded your footprint to doing things like this. And it, it's really interesting and I'm, curious as to where the thought process went, where you were like, okay, we've got to get into, into this bigger footprint. Well, I mean, it started 43 years ago in as. when we were owned by American Express Publishing. Mm-hmm. And, um, and they invested in the Food and Wine Classic in Aspen, you know, and, and if you fast forward to now that, that really created the DNA for a food and wine event and, and that's the DNA, that it's, it's programmed, into everything we do. when. Neil Vogel and dot dash, acquired us, um, and we became dot dash Meredith. And now People Inc. You know, they saw the value in Food and Wines franchises. They saw the value in, in the classics. They saw the value in best in chefs. Saw the value in the magazine and so really my job is to bring even more of this to the table and to lean into the things that have been working with us of working for us for a very long time. And that's why we're here in Charleston. We're in a world-class culinary city. We're bringing this culture to life on stage, we're bringing other national chefs in and figure out that blend, that sort of magical blend of, of. The talent and, to do more storytelling here with the city as the backdrop. So, you know, this is like we talk about magazine. Um, we are a digital media company, so our digital growth is very, very important. Social video, um, you know, different creating different revenue streams. Um, but the events in the magazine for me are the hedge against ai. You know, you cannot, uh, you cannot create what we do with this physical magazine that people love and engage with. That's one of the things we love about being in the restaurant business. Right. You can't, you can't make, you can't replicate the magic of the three of us talking here together. Right. Right. Just like you can't, uh, recreate the magic of being at table with people you love in a restaurant where everything's humming. That's the ultimate hedge against ai. And so I'm really leaning into that idea of like, I'm not fearful of it. We use ai. To make, uh, work lighter and we use AI in an administratively and, you know, logistically, but AI can't do this. It cannot. And that's really for me, as I think about growth and as I think about bringing people together, you know, people need to be together. Whether it's in your restaurants, whether it's here an event, like they need to gather and they want to come and have fun and learn, get a great beverage, uh, eat, eat some great snacks, you know? And, and that's what this is about. So how many of these are around the, the world are you guys doing now? So we've got two right now. We, we, if the flagship is a food wine classic in Aspen, that's still going strong. Uh, we started the Food Wine Classic in Charleston last year, you know, and we're gonna continue to evolve this. And, um, what, where else do you see yourselves going? You know, I, if you've got, uh, if you've got anybody out in, um. You know, California or, or Texas or, Las Vegas or in the Caribbean you think we should be talking to? Let me know. Well, you know, you have Chris Shepherd here who does that Houston Southern Smoke event. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great event as well. Chris is, were you guys at Southern Smoke? Yeah. You are. So Chris is a good buddy. Uh, 2013 Food and Wine. Best new chef. Mm-hmm. Yeah, an example of, uh, the best of the best leaders in the business and that's why he's on Food Wines masthead as editor and chef. Because our partnership with Chris, um, and really Chris is a, is a, in the background as a part of the secret sauce of our events because we work with him as a partner. To be a liaison with, with restaurant folks. Mm-hmm. And with the chefs. And so they might not tell me something, but they're gonna tell Chris they're gonna give him feedback or best new chefs. He knows what it's like to go through that fire and that journey. Uh, and so he's an advisor to the best new chefs and, it's an awesome thing to have a partner like that. And the biggest part of all of it for us is it allows us, uh, to use our platforms to support Southern Smoke and to support the restaurant industry with, you know, if there there's a mental health need or there's a financial assistance need Southern Smoke steps in, and, and that's because of Chris and his wife Lindsay's leadership. So that's an easy, easy, easy partnership relationship. And they also happen to be great friends. And they're fun. Yeah, they're good people. You know, what you said earlier really, really strikes home. You know, mark and I have said, in, in the restaurant business, that it is the one thing you can't, you can't email a restaurant. Yes. And you can have takeout at home and you can, you know, stay home and, have takeout and play a video game. But that does not the same as going to a restaurant or going to a bar, but you know. What you have done that I think is interesting is the events and the real life stuff.'cause I think one of the reasons people are looking to chefs or to your local restaurateur or your local bartender is because in an AI driven world, you don't know what's exactly real or not, right? But with chefs, you and people who actually cook food, you kind of do know. And I, and, but it's interesting to me, I mean, magazine is a failing, business model, but yours isn't because you've incorporated all this other, stuff like Mark said before, a footprint on the ground. Do you still sell a lot of magazines? Still sell a lot of magazines. Our circulation, our readership is steady year over year. Who's buying them? Who, who is reading you? We're getting younger every year. Mm-hmm. That's amazing. So, you know, they're not aging out. That's funny.'cause I'm getting older every year. Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Um, I'd love to be like Matthew McConaughey, you know, stay the same age. Um, For us, we look at the magazine as, it's not the ultimate growth model. It's not the thing that's gonna mm-hmm. You know, the magazine's not gonna grow, uh, tenfold year over year. But the, the magazine is the anchor and the heart and soul of this brand. Right. And if you take the magazine out. Um, you know, the center will not hold. Right? And so the way we look at it is that we, we launch big things like, like an event like this, or we launch a, a big, editorial tint pole, like best New Chefs. Um, the magazine plays such an important role. It's the cover, it's the branding, it's the marketing. Well, and it's the story that people wanna participate in because I think if you're just an events company, like, oh, we'll do that next year. Oh, we'll do that next year. Sure. Instead, with food and wine, you have a story that is. Less and less being told. Right. And, and you're like, Hey, and you can come visit this story a few times a year. Right. And I, I, I'm very impressed by it. And the magazine gives gravitas to what you do, right? Yeah. And I think young people, I love what you said about young people.'cause one of the things we look at is young people aren't drinking. Young people aren't doing this, young people aren't going out to dinner. Young people don't have an attention span, but some of them do. And we need to encourage those folks to Yeah, man, enjoy it. And the kids are all right. Like, yeah, it's not like, like, you know, we see what's going on. Like if you've been to a wine bar lately and you see the, the amount of wine being consumed by young consumers, if you see the kinds of wines that they're drinking, you know what they're not doing is they're not drinking shit. Right. And they're not drinking, like I was just about saying super, super mass, uh, plunk. They're, they're drinking good wine. Yep. They've got taste. They know more than they ever have. Yeah. They money. And so I'm, I'm not worried about it on the wine front when it comes to restaurants and, and restaurant spaces. Yeah. They're gonna continue to evolve, but you know, there still is that aspirational younger consumer that's looking at food and wine and coming to food and wine. Um, you know, thinking about this lifestyle. And then when they age into it, um, they're sort of our like, like our core consumer. Yeah. Um, you know, and so events like this, as we think about this, you know, we're thinking about, okay, are there some smaller spinoffs where maybe we, we do something at a more accessible. Price point. So you've heard it. The New Brunswick Food and Wine Classic will be coming up in, uh, New Jersey soon. There you go. Well, you know what you, what you said though, about a, a story in young people, I think they want a story and they want authenticity. And it's not just about status. And one of the, that's what we craft on our restaurant. We are in our restaurants most nights of the week. Our staff has been with us for 10 and 15 years, show up and we have historian. But you need to engage'em in the story. They're not gonna show up just for status. It's true. And, and, and that has to translate to the chefs who are cooking the dish. They've gotta, uh, be inspired by the ingredients they're using and the story behind the ingredients and the farmer that they might know, um, who got that great duck, you know, they've, it's gotta extend to the general manager. It's gotta extend to the, to the service staff. And, and they've gotta get hyped up about what's gonna hit the table that night. And they're telling their story. And then the same goes with the wine. you know, people wanna know how this is made. They want to know that it was made with care. Um, you know, that, that that property might be, uh, an organic farm. And that's what people will want to participate in. They wanna participate in the story. And Food and Wine magazine is just in, as there are a fewer and fewer is an increasingly important, um, through line to, to keep the history going forward. So thanks for that. So what's, what's next and exciting in the, in the food and wine world? I think, uh, this year we have grown so much and we run so fast. Uh, I, I told the team like, we've got a bad case of shin splints. So like, you know, for me it's about regrouping and getting, the team ready for next year. we're gonna definitely think about like what the, the next event might be. Um, you know, I'm excited about all of it. I like, I'm excited to, to refine our newsletters. I'm excited about social video. Um, I'm excited a a about still creating a world class magazine, so, you know, it's really leaning into all of our strengths and the things we do and, and I think a big part of that is gonna be best new chefs, you know? Mm-hmm. Like we talked about this idea of community and gathering people together, and now we have 399 best new chefs. And 70 of them were in the room together at the last, uh, best New Chefs party in September. And that was magic. Yeah, I'm sure. And some magical things happen when best New Chefs come together. Um, I've gotta figure out how to turn that into some marketing language, realize, get the power to be, to spend some more money with us. Yeah. I mean, realize that Best New Chefs isn't isn. All best new chefs anymore. Right now it's, it's now, now those people have grown and they are, yeah. There's a guy named Thomas Keller that was in the world class, class country. A guy named Daniel Ballu. Um, Rick Bayless. Yeah. You know, and then, and then, you know, a couple classes later you got Nobu, you got Nancy Silverton. Yeah. Fast forward to 2019. You got Kwame and CHUs here this weekend. Chris Shepherd, we talked about 2013. Yeah. so yeah, it's, it's a legendary who's who of, of. not just in this country, but these are the folks that have shaped cuisine in America. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it, and it's a, it's a list that continues to endure. Right. That, that's on your resume forever. Yeah, yeah. Right. You win that award. That's forever. Yeah, Well, listen, the storytellers are really important and um, we love that you invited us to your party, uh, and we got a bunch of great interviews here and we are helping to tell the story as well. But Food and Wine Magazine is that you're doing extraordinary work and you're important than ever. So thanks for coming to the show to talk to us guys. Thanks very much. Yeah, thanks. My curiosity. Thank you. Or you can find out more. You don't need to find out more about Food and Wine Magazine. Everybody knows about Food and Wine Magazine, but you can find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com. Thanks,

the-restaurant-guys_2_12-07-2025_132157: 55:22

So that was a hell of a first day, uh, here in Charleston. We have more coming up tomorrow. We'll be back, uh, recording another show. But do you know what we need to do now? Mark? What do we need to do now? Eat. We need to go and eat. We are at Charles bit of food. I I'm gonna have some beverage too, I think while we're here, if that's our dude. We love, we love our listeners. But screw you guys. We're going to get some food. It's, uh, and some and meet and hang out with more people. And I'll tell you we're, so, we're gonna walk around the festival and eat, but we gotta be careful. Because you know we have reservations tonight, so we're gonna have to make sure we don't eat too much at this festival. We are definitely not drink too much. We can do, we are definitely not above two dinner reservations in the same night. So listen, I hope you guys have enjoyed this part of the show. We'll be back to record more tomorrow and we'll see you back in New Jersey. We're the restaurant guys. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys. You can always find out more@restaurantguyspodcast.com. That's way better than I thought.