Francis: 1:27

Hi there, mark.

Mark: 1:28

Hey Francis. How

1:29

are

Francis: 1:29

you? I speak with greater authority on podcasting now because I, I finally bought an iPod Because you've actually done it now, but you don't have, you can podcast right onto your computer, Francis. Exactly, exactly. Well, we can podcast onto their computers. Well, yeah, and the great thing about this whole podcasting thing is we are having like. Tens of thousands of downloads. I have no idea why y'all are downloading us all over the world,

Mark: 1:51

but I'm enjoying getting the mail from all over the place from France. That's been, that's been really exciting seeing, seeing people all over the country. We have

Francis: 1:57

a follow France and Canada, South Carolina, we love you. We love you, love you all. Uh, today our guest is Charlie Palmer. Charlie Palmer is one of the most famous chefs in the world. He's a noted chef and author. He owns Oola restaurant in Manhattan, also in Las Vegas. Um, several other restaurants, many cookbooks. He's a big personality. Um, and his newest venture is the Dry Creek kitchen in Healdsburg, California, where he's recently moved his family. Total change in lifestyle, taking

Mark: 2:22

everybody outta New York, move them out to California.

Francis: 2:23

Yeah, moving from 64th Street in Manhattan to Healdsburg, California is a big life change there. It's a big jump. So we're gonna talk with him about that in, in the next segment of the show, and that's gonna be very interesting. So I hope that you stick around to hear us talk with Charlie Palmer. Uh, and I think we were talking about the podcasting we've been doing and, and all the emails we've been getting. so we, we may as well answer the emails. I think that's only fair. I we

Mark: 2:44

answer most of our emails, uh, via email.

Francis: 2:46

Right. But a couple, I think that we've gotten from more than one person, we can mm-hmm. We can answer on the air. Or over the computer lines. And the first is, we have been talking a lot about Jersey corn, and we've gotten a bunch of emails from outside the area asking, what is this Jersey corn you're talking about? Mm-hmm. Now, what we've told everyone, the things that we've discussed are there are a lot of sweet corns out there on the market now. Even the local producers are making sweet corns, super sweetss, the. The type of corn that is traditional or was traditional Jersey corn is called Silver Queen. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't only grown in Jersey, but it had a distinct flavor when you grew it in New Jersey, but that's just maybe your own personal opinion, but the silver Queen corn. Was, well actually there was an article, we did a little research and, and there's a guy named, uh, Jim g Maurice, uh, who owns Jim Maurice Farms right around here. Mm-hmm. And, he was talking about the fact that no one really grows Silver Queen anymore because it's not as sweet as these genetically modified corns and these, these hybrids that are hybrid to be super sweet and not lose their sweetness.

Mark: 3:44

Mm-hmm. So when you taste them side by side, everybody says, oh, this sweet corn really stands out.

Francis: 3:49

It strikes, but it's a sugary kind of a sweetness. Mm-hmm. And here's what our farmer friend Jim says. If you went back to the old Silver Queen today, I'm sorry. So

Mark: 3:56

that would be Farmer Jim. Farmer Jim, exactly. Okay. Just checking.

Francis: 3:58

Yep. If you went back to the old Silver Queen today, people probably wouldn't like it said Jim g Maurice of Jim Maurice Farms in East Brunswick. I'm quoting the Newark Star letter here. A white corn silver queen, popular in the seventies. Silver Queen tastes milky. Corny and sweet, he explained. But these days, people just like that candy sweet flavor. Mm-hmm. You know, where are we going and how do we get in this hand basket? It tastes

Mark: 4:21

corn

Francis: 4:21

should taste like

Mark: 4:22

corn, should taste just like corn every time, all the time. I want my corn to taste like corn. I want my strawberries to taste like strawberries. I want my beets to taste like beets. I want my potatoes to taste like potatoes. Oh, we got the point

Francis: 4:36

mark.

Mark: 4:40

Sorry, I'm feeling a little, I want my mean friends to

Francis: 4:43

be mean. That's why you got me around. Here's the deal. Um, also Silver Queen had a problem. All corn has a problem. See, when you pick, like when you pick a pear. A pair is one of those things that doesn't need to be tree ripe. It actually ripens from the inside out. So if you wait for the pair to ripen on the tree, by the time it's soft on the outside, it's probably rotten on the inside. So Asian pairs are the only exception to that. Mm-hmm. But pears, um, are, are something that they do ripen. You do wanna pick them before they're completely rip and let them ripen off the tree, let them soften up off the tree a little bit. So that's the one. One of very few exceptions. Um, tomatoes you want to pick just when they're ripe and you don't wanna refrigerate tomatoes and you get a couple of days outta tomatoes, even if you pick it perfectly ripe and you don't refrigerate it, do not refrigerate Tomatoes do not refrigerate tomatoes,

Mark: 5:28

but they degrade every day. Right.

Francis: 5:30

I mean, but not as rapidly as corn. As soon as you pick corn off the stalk mm-hmm. The sugar in corn starts to con, uh, to convert into starch. And starch is flavorless and it's not sweet and really takes away from the corn. Now these super sweets retain their sugar. Not only are they sweeter, but the sugar stays in them longer. So yes, it's sweet, but when you can find silver queen corn and when you go to your farm stand, say, listen, do you have any silver queen? If you plant silver queen, I'll buy it from you next year.'cause that's what we're doing is Ur. That's exactly what we're doing. Hopefully next year we'll have some silver queens that,'cause we're gonna commit to that. We get silver

Mark: 6:04

queen once in a while from the occasional farmer. But it's rare, rare, rare commodity

Francis: 6:09

because literally. When you, there's an old, the old adage in Jersey is if you pick the silver Queen, you know, you, you put the pot of water on the stove, you get it boiling. You walk out into the field, pick the corn, and, you know, run back to the, back to the water because it, it literally, in, in three hours time, you'll taste the difference in the corn. You

Mark: 6:25

know, it's funny, I, you don't even know that I did this Francis, but I did a little experiment, uh, with some silver queen corn, uh, about eight, 10 days ago, Uhhuh and the corn, the corn was picked fresh that morning. I cooked a bunch of it right away. Mm-hmm. Ate some of it right for lunch that day. Mm-hmm. When I left a couple on the counter. Cooked one the next day. Just, just to compare it to what I had had the day before. Yeah. Cooked one the next day. Again, just to compare it to, to what I had before Uhhuh, and I'll tell you that the, the flavor profile in that corn degraded by half probably each day. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It was, it was an amazing, amazing difference. Just in, in 24 to 48 hours.

Francis: 7:00

Yeah. Like day old corn. Mm-hmm. I mean, what other produce, you know, goes that way in a day. But when Silver Queen is right, it not only tastes sweet, it tastes like corn. Mm-hmm. And that's, you know, that's what we're really looking for. I have another email we wanna respond to. I have a a a a Jeanine from South River, New Jersey. This is a local woman. Hello. Jeanine or Jean? Actually, she signs her name Jeanie. So, hi Jeanie. Um. I love your show and listen every day. Oh gosh. Um, I was wondering about something I've never heard discussed before in your show, which is dress code. My husband and I love trying new restaurants, but I'm always wondering what to wear. I don't wanna dress formally and look silly, but I also wouldn't wanna be the only one in the room, uh, dressed in my business. Casual attire. Do you know a good way to decide what's appropriate? Pro? Probably Jeanie. The

Mark: 7:42

easiest way to do that is just call her head at, at the restaurant. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Generally, the restaurant will give you a good idea of what most people wear, and even if jackets aren't required, say, a fair question to say is, well, what percentage of people do wear jackets that come to your restaurant? Yeah. Yeah. And, and I find that, that you, I get a good sense of, well, most men don't wear jackets. Well, half the men wear jackets. That'll, that'll give me a really good sense of, of what I should be wearing when I go out to dinner someplace.

Francis: 8:07

And because you women have so many more clothing options, it's always based on the man. I mean, we know we're very simple US guys. Mm-hmm. And so it's either jacket required, jacket and tie, required business casual, which could mean yes or no. The questions you wanna ask are, you know, can I wear jeans? Right. Can a gentleman wear shorts? Um, and you know, if anything says, if you're ever invited to a party and it says formal attire suggested. Mm-hmm. It's really not a suggestion put on the tuxedo. It means if you can't afford a tuxedo, you don't have to come in one. But actually you can get by if it's as formal tire suggested. If you wear a black suit. Right. And a black bow tie. You, you can get away with that.

Mark: 8:43

you, you know, Francis, one of the things that's, that's changed over the years, there are fewer and fewer restaurants I think that require jackets anymore. Yeah. And I don't know, every once in a while I liked going out to a restaurant that was, that was jacket required. And you know, obviously that can't be the lion's share of restaurants because most of us don't wear jackets when we go out to dinner anymore.

Francis: 9:03

I like both I, and I'll tell, but I'll tell you what I do. Like, I do like when a restaurant does have a strict dress code. Mm-hmm. Because when it has a strict dress code, no one has to feel uncomfortable. Right. And that's the purpose of a dress code.'cause if you wear your tuxedo and the guy next to you is wearing a concert T-shirt from the Joan Jet concert in 1985 could be a little uncomfortable.

Mark: 9:19

Right. Or vice versa, actually. Frankly, I think it's more uncomfortable to. Wear a jacket, uh, to be in shorts when the guy next to you is wearing a jacket.

Francis: 9:26

Exactly. I've seen you in shorts, in the jacket, very unattractive. You're listening to the restaurant guys. We'll be talking with Charlie Palmer in just a moment. Charlie's a noted chef and author, owner of Aureole restaurant in Manhattan and in Las Vegas, several other restaurants, and his newest venture is the Dry Creek Kitchen at the Hotel Healdsburg in California. And he joins us. By telephone from California today. Hey. Hey Charlie. How you doing Chef? Welcome to the show.

Charlie: 9:48

Hey, great. Great to be here. It was super. The weather on the East Coast,

Mark: 9:51

that's pretty nice. We can't actually, yeah, we can't complain right now.

Francis: 9:54

Isn't the weather on the West Coast always pretty nice? It's always nice.

Mark: 9:58

Berg. The answer is. Nice. If you're in Healdsburg, it doesn't matter what day, what month, what, whatever.

Francis: 10:04

Well, I mean, let's, let's get into the, the meat of the matter, uh, uh, of the current move. Now you've just opened your newest venture is the Dry Creek Kitchen at the Hotel Healdsburg out in California. Now you have restaurants all, all over the country, but you are, your home base was New York for most of the time prior to that, right?

Charlie: 10:20

Yes. Yeah. Until last year. Um. And basically, you know, the, uh, the Dry Creek kitchen's been open a couple of years now, but we just moved, um, our family, uh, here, here to Healdsburg. We live right outside of town and actually, you know, I kind of live bi coastally. I go back and forth to New York and pretty much, you know, pretty much my schedule's not changed an awful lot. Mm-hmm. I spend about half my time in, in New York and DC, which we have a, that's actually our newest restaurant. Half my time on the west coast between California and Vegas. So

Francis: 10:51

do you find that makes you a little schizophrenic?

Charlie: 10:53

Uh, yeah, I'm a pretty calm guy. So, you know

Mark: 10:55

what, what makes a, what makes a guy uproot his family from the, from the East coast, New York area and Manhattan. And go out to Manhattan Exactly. And, and go out to Healdsburg, which is about as different as you could get.

Charlie: 11:08

Well, you know, we, Lisa and I, my wife, we had a kind of a 10 year plan, and the idea was that. We both had lived in New York for a long, long time, and I love New York. I mean, you know, that's one thing people ask me like, oh, you moved out of the city. Like, look, I love New York and I'm there half the time still.

Speaker: 11:22

Right, right.

Charlie: 11:22

But we, um, we just thought it would be, you know, a good time in our life to like change, you know, where we're at. And, um, and we, we've always loved Sonoma and particularly Healdsburg, Northern Sonoma County. And, you know, we, we started looking into different things and it, we just kept coming back to the same place, so.

Speaker: 11:39

Mm-hmm. You

Charlie: 11:40

know, it's, uh, and it's, it's a pretty neat place. I mean, it's, it's an amazing spot. You know, we have four young kids, so it's a, it's a great place for them to grow up as well.

Mark: 11:47

How do they feel about the move?

Charlie: 11:49

You know, they love it here. Mm-hmm. They love it here and, uh, but at the same time, they love going back to New York. Um, you know, we were in, in Christmas time when they were in school, vacation. We were in New York, in the summer when they just, you know, when they got outta school, we were in New York for a month and a half, so, you know, so they get, you know, best of all worlds and it's kind of. You know, it's great for the kids. I think the city's great for kids. Actually. We live right in Manhattan,

Speaker: 12:10

Uhhuh, and

Charlie: 12:10

um, you know, they're exposed to so many great things.

Speaker: 12:13

Yeah.

Charlie: 12:13

But at the same time, over here in Sonoma, we have like, you know, we have 35 acres and vineyard and

Francis: 12:18

Right. You have trees and stuff. Yeah. They get to

Charlie: 12:21

run and run and, you know. Avoid the rattlesnakes. Hopefully.

Francis: 12:23

You know, it's, it's funny when you say you're, you're, you live bi coastally. I I love to, we, we have a restaurant as well and we, we have a wine business as well, so we're often in California. Um, and I like to visit, but I have to say I couldn't live there. and I think that living bi coastally would be, would be very traumatic for me.'cause I, I find myself being too nice to people in New York and too nasty people out in California. That's already your problem, Francis. I know. Wait, I'm in the wrong place. Uh, I'm supposed to be nice to you. You know what I mean? Well, now what is the place in Hillsburg, uh, the, the Dry Creek Kitchen? What's the, what's the mission out there?

Charlie: 12:54

Well, you know, dry Creek Kitchen, the whole concept of the restaurant. Um. Is based upon Sonoma County.

Speaker: 13:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Charlie: 13:02

And what we do is we only feature Sonoma, Sonoma grown wines. Um, we have a, we have a list that's about 700 selections now.

Speaker: 13:09

Wow.

Charlie: 13:10

But it has to be grown in Sonoma County. That's the criteria.

Speaker: 13:13

Uhhuh.

Charlie: 13:13

Um, as far as the menus in, in, in the restaurant itself, we, we concentrate on local food, I mean mm-hmm. And there's very few places in the world that you can do what we do at the Dry Creek Kitchen because. Within Sonoma County, you know, we have incredible artisanal creamies.

Speaker: 13:28

Right, right. We

Charlie: 13:29

have the coast, which is 20 miles away, so you get dungeon as crab. Mm-hmm. You know, salmon is coming in like crazy now we get ling cod, you know, you know, lots of good seafood. Um, and then of course the growers, I mean, we have, you know, incredible produce, incredible tree fruit, um mm-hmm. You know, and it is just, it's a really remarkable place in that respect. You know, I can't think of another place in the world where you'd have it all so specifically in one spot.

Mark: 13:53

Right. And you can literally get produce almost all year round.

Charlie: 13:56

Oh yeah. We get stuff and we literally get guys come into the back door. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, we have, you know, with, with wild mushrooms for instance. Mm-hmm. You know, when the mushroom season is just going crazy. They're just at the back door with baskets. You don't just take them, you pick out the ones you want.

Mark: 14:11

That's nice. That's nice. The

Charlie: 14:12

perfect portini from Mount, she, wow.

Mark: 14:14

Wow. That's great. You know, you're a well-known, control freak. and we're, and we're talking to Charlie Palmer. you don't like. The cream and, and dairy that you're getting. So you buy a dairy, uh, you want to be, have more control over the flowers in your, in your restaurant. So you take over and become partners with the Flo. you're definitely, uh, got your hands in a lot of things to make sure that the, the right products are coming to you. Yeah. Uh, now for me. You know, and being a control freak myself, how does that, how does that work when you're in one place or the other and your restaurant is still existing in the, in the place that you're not?

Charlie: 14:51

Well, I tell you, I don't think, you know, a number of years ago we couldn't be as successful as we are now, you know, as a restaurant group, um, because of techno. I mean, technology's gotten so good.

Speaker: 15:01

Sure.

Charlie: 15:01

That. I mean, for instance, I'll give you a good, a good example. My chef in New York, like Dante Boccuzzi, who's my chef at, Aureole New York mm-hmm. Which is obviously very close to my heart. You know, I talk to him at least once a day on the phone. I email, you know, we email each other back and forth. Um, chef Wise, we have a closed website for chefs only our chefs in our group.

Francis: 15:21

I wanna talk more about this in just a moment. Our guest today is Charlie Palmer. He's, uh, owner of the Dry Creek Kitchen in the Hotel Hillsburg, as well as one of America's foremost celebrity chefs. And we'll be talking with him more about being a nationally based chef in just a moment. Our guest today is Charlie Palmer, noted chef and author, and we are talking about, we're talking to him about his latest venture in California, but we're also talking about having, uh, restaurants all across the country from New York to Las Vegas to California, and how he maintains his vision throughout all these different places. He can only be in one place at a time. And tell us more about how you do that, Charlie.

Charlie: 15:52

Well, you know, it's definitely a challenge and, um, you know. The reason I began, began opening other restaurants, you know, from the original Oriole in New York, is that I had all these incredibly talented people working with us, that eventually they were gonna go somewhere, you know, they were gonna go on. And I became like, I supplied so many chefs to so many people

Speaker: 16:13

that

Charlie: 16:14

finally, finally, I got smart, is what I tell people. And said, look, you know, instead of, you know, giving off this, this incredible talent to other people, you know, I said, I'm gonna put'em in business myself.

Speaker: 16:23

Right? And,

Charlie: 16:24

um. And the other part of it, uh, part of it is, you know, at this point, besides being a chef, I'm a restaurateur and, and I love the idea of creating new things.

Speaker: 16:32

Yeah. Mm-hmm. You

Charlie: 16:33

know, and, and like for instance, our, our, our steakhouse in Washington, DC you know, it's a very, very different concept than what someone would think of as like a, you know, a He-Man bang on a table steakhouse.

Speaker: 16:44

Right.

Charlie: 16:45

You know, but it's always, it was my vision to create this kind of contemporary, really highly styled. Excellent, uh, you know, steak restaurant, but it also, you know, it, it's very attractive to, to the female clientele. For instance, we get more, you know, ladies making reservations in our, in our restaurant in Washington DC than men.

Francis: 17:06

Wow.

Speaker: 17:06

And then I

Charlie: 17:06

think if you look at a, I think the national average is like all, you know, 72% of all reservations are made by women.

Francis: 17:13

Interesting. That's very interesting.

Charlie: 17:14

You know, if you think about it, you know, dining options, you know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Who makes the decision? You know, usually the spouse, right? Sure.

Mark: 17:20

it was from, the movie, uh, my Greek wedding I think where, where she said, yeah, he's the head of the household, but I'm the neck.

Francis: 17:29

Yeah. Well, actually we're about to, we're about to open our, our second restaurant, uh, after we've just had 13 years on our first one. And, um, is it easier to run more than one restaurant than it is to just run one? Well,

Charlie: 19:25

it's difficult in different ways, I think. I mean, we're at the point now where, you know, as a group we have a lot of really talented people. So in that respect, it makes it easy when, you know, when we open a new restaurant, for instance, you know, I can kind of take some of that talent from all around our restaurants and bring them, bring it into that restaurant at least for a period of time,

Speaker: 19:44

right?

Charlie: 19:45

Mm-hmm. You know, and you have that strength and that kind of thing,

Francis: 19:47

right? we started with a 50 seat restaurant and we're now four, four dining rooms and 125 seats. And the hardest thing I ever did was running that 50 seat restaurant.

Speaker: 19:54

Yeah.

Francis: 19:55

You're listening to the restaurant guys. Today our guest is Charlie Palmer, celebrity chef, noted author, and pretty cool dude. Uh, we'll be back after the news to talk more with Charlie Palmer about his restaurants across America and the state of American dining in general. You're listening to the Restaurant Guys,

Mark: 20:08

Today we are talking with Charlie Palmer, uh, who was recently named one of the top 100 celebrities, uh, in the nation. Now, that's not top 100 chefs, that's top 100 celebrities in the nation.

Francis: 20:20

That's a pretty big deal, Charlie. Charlie, you,

Mark: 20:23

you're a guy who was, who was famous before anybody was saying Bam on the food network.

Francis: 20:29

Now, you, you did a lot of things first. I mean, you opened Aureole in, what year was it? 88. Yeah.

Charlie: 20:35

88. Yeah.

Francis: 20:35

So 88 you opened up Aureole in Manhattan, and now you have Aureole in Las Vegas and you've done, you've done a lot of really, I mean, before there was a food network, Charlie Palmer was, was a celebrity chef, and your food has a lot of integrity. It's not just, you know, like in the old school of celebrity chefs, maybe that the food wasn't on the plate as much as it was the image of the person. And, um, I've dined it both Aureoles a number of times, and the food's great, and the service is great. And it, it's true to its original intent. Now you were the first guy to go out to Vegas that I know. Uh, so maybe you weren't the first, but you were among the first to go out in Vegas and blaze new trails out there. What's it like having a restaurant in Vegas?

Charlie: 21:12

Well, you know, I, I think Vegas is fantastic and I think, there was the, what I think a very, very bad misconception of, from a lot of people that when, you know, when someone went out to Vegas, it was, you know, just they were copping out or they were, you know, doing something stupid. And I can't tell you how many different, opinions I got when I decided I was gonna do this. But from my standpoint, I thought, here's an opportunity to be really on the forefront of food in a major city.

Mark: 21:36

And it's really gone through a culinary renaissance. I

Charlie: 21:38

mean, yeah, I mean, at that time there was no food. I mean, Wolfgang was open, you know, Spago was open, Emerald was there. But besides those two, there was really not much going on.

Francis: 21:47

Well, and even with those two, I mean, when you opened oral there, I think you brought di like fine dining up to like an incredible level. I mean, it was a leap up at the time.

Charlie: 21:54

Yeah. I mean, but I, I saw it as an opportunity and you know, people say like, Vegas, Vegas, what's, what's Vegas? Vegas is our clientele. There is not much different than New York.

Speaker: 22:04

Right? These are

Charlie: 22:04

travelers from all major cities, you know, nationally and internationally, you know, and they're, they're people that are looking for great food. They're not looking for. Something different because they're in Vegas. There are people that are looking for great restaurant experience, you know? And when people are in Vegas, they're entertaining. They're being entertained. You know, and there's that excitement of the whole thing, you

Francis: 22:22

know? Well, you know, one of the things that's interesting, Charlie, is, is, um, I was out, you invited me out very kindly. Thank you for, uh, the opening of oral in Las Vegas, uh, so many years ago. And I don't really like to gamble in casinos. And um, usually when I'm in a casino, it's on business, on on restaurant business or wine business, right. And I was out in Vegas, and I've been out to Vegas since. And I was, went out as a diner and I had a great time. I didn't even ga, I gambled 20 bucks. Absolutely. Yeah. And I know more and more people now who, if they're anywhere near that who are diners, will go to Vegas to dine. Sure. It's, it's become a dining destination and may also gamble. It's not just to service the gamblers. Right. Is that.

Charlie: 23:00

yeah, I think a good example is, you know, you have the Four Seasons. It's a non-gaming hotel. That's where I always stay Uhhuh. I'm not a big gaming guy. I'll be mm-hmm. You know, I'll be the first to say that I, I don't understand it. To me it's like, you know, you're throwing your money in this machine or you're, you know, you're giving your money away. If you got that much money, give it to a charity. You know, don't give it to the casino. But

Francis: 23:17

to me, to me, opening restaurants, that's, that's gambling enough for me. That's all I need. That's all I can take.

Charlie: 23:21

Yeah. Well, absolutely. And, and yeah, for me, that's what I tell people. Just make sure that you. Eat you dying first before you can. Right, exactly. I don't want, I don't want you to run outta money. Exactly.

Mark: 23:31

Cancel your reservations. So sorry. My credit card's maxed, Mr. Palmer. Yeah.

Francis: 23:36

Now we've seen in, we've seen in Las Vegas an incredible change, but hasn't there been an incredible change in, in restaurants in the nation, both from a D'S perspective and from a professionalization of the people who work in restaurants?

Mark: 23:50

I mean, I would think you would have a great perspective on this being in all these different cities for No, absolutely. Yeah. For this period of time.

Charlie: 23:56

Yeah. I mean, I, I just, I tell people, you know, and people that always pose this question to me, but I don't think there's a better, there's ever been a better time to dine in this country.

Speaker: 24:04

Yeah.'cause

Charlie: 24:05

you know, whether it's New York, which is an incredible restaurant city, um, or it's Las Vegas, which is coming up, or it's San Francisco, which, you know, really has some incredibly great restaurants. There's just, that bar has been, that bar has been raised over and over and over. And I, I'm not talking about just the high, you know, the highest end restaurants. I'm talking about restaurants in general.

Speaker: 24:27

Sure. You know, and

Charlie: 24:27

cooking in this country and then going all the way back to, you know, the suppliers has just gotten better and better. Yeah. I mean, you know, think about it, 10 years ago. You couldn't get the kind of produce or the kind of poultry or the kind of things that we work with now? No. It's, you get'em, you couldn't find'em anywhere. Well, well,

Mark: 24:41

it's, it's fun and, and it's given us an opportunity to be even more demanding and more discerning in, in the kinds of things that we choose in our restaurants. Oh, absolutely.

Francis: 24:48

But what's, what's very interesting is, you know, and I know that you have on the east coast and the west coast, our restaurants are all here in New Brunswick, New Jersey, but we have forged over the last. 10 years relationships with farmers to the point where, and talk about an exciting time to be in a restaurant. I mean, this, I, it didn't even occur to me 10 years ago that I'd be in a position where I have four or five farmers that I deal with as well as the agricultural, uh, extension of Cook College, which is the agricultural school at Rutgers University, where we meet in January to talk about what seeds are gonna be planted for me to harvest. You know, I was like, oh, we'll try this kind of tomato this year. It's more challenging to, buy locally when you're in a temperate climate, like in Jersey. But, you know, we, we contracted for a, a lot of tomato plants and the tomatoes are coming in right now. Sure. We're putting them all up for the winter. Sure. But, but that kind of stuff. Just, I mean, you No, no respiratory did that, that I know of 15 years ago.

Charlie: 25:38

No, absolutely not. I mean, you know, the only hope that I have is like, is like the diner understands that, you know? Mm-hmm. Because I think sometimes, you know that a lot is taken for granted. But if the, if the diner, you know, really was, you know, educated as to how far we go to get things that are really good for them, you know, it's amazing. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know. it's just really great.

Mark: 25:59

I'm not a huge fan of the, food channel, but I do think that that's really helped to educate people and, and let people know what to, what lengths we go and are willing to go to get the best product on the table.

Charlie: 26:10

No, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, the food channel in general has been great for, for food in this country. Mm-hmm. I mean, take something like, like Emerald for, for instance. Mm-hmm. I mean, he's a good friend of mine, but this man has done more for food, I think, in this country than anybody else.

Mark: 26:24

Yeah.

Charlie: 26:25

He's reached, you know, all levels.

Mark: 26:28

That's exactly right. And I deal, I

Charlie: 26:29

deal on a certain level. I deal. You know, mostly with, you know, higher income people. Right. I mean, let's face it, you know, you know, I'm not gonna pretend that it's not the case, but Emerald, he's got people that would normally be at a fast food restaurant thinking about cooking at home. Yeah. Thinking about eating something, you know, you know. Interesting and good for you.

Francis: 26:46

You know, it's funny, I, I have an 11-year-old nephew who is. Um, I mean, he's just, he's a foodie. I know he, he's just a foodie and he watches the food channel and he watches Emerald and he wants to make that stuff'cause he sees this on TV and I think that's really great. You, you know what is an interesting paradigm though, Charlie is the. As we, you know, get involved with sustainable agriculture, keeping family farmers on the farm and buying the kind of food that we buy, and we're willing to go to the, to the ends of the earth to get the best produce. And it's often found very locally. Mm-hmm. But it's always more expensive. And we are a high-end restaurant. We're maybe one, probably one of the most expensive restaurants in Jersey, but that gives me the freedom to be able to buy. Mm-hmm. You know, this, this kind of, because these farmers. That are on these small farms cannot operate as cheaply as as the big agribusiness farms. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So, but at the

Mark: 27:33

same time, supporting those farms makes it more likely that that consumers are gonna be able to get that product.

Francis: 27:37

But there, but there's my question. What do you think of the paradigm between, to support the local family farm? You've gotta like, it's rich people that need to, or people who have a lot of disposable income to spend on food, who need to pay more to be able to keep these farmers on the farm. Isn't that an odd dichotomy?

Charlie: 27:52

Well, I, I think it's odd, but I think, you know, I'm. You know, I talk about this all the time because I'm in a community where there's a lot of really small growers here.

Speaker: 27:59

Mm-hmm. In

Charlie: 28:00

Sonoma, in Healdsburg, you know, and then of course you go to the, you go to the green market, you know, and you know, heirloom tomatoes are two 50 a pound.

Speaker: 28:09

Right.

Charlie: 28:09

You know, and that kind of thing. And you could certainly buy tomatoes for half that price. Of course. Lots of places. But they're not as good, they're not as tasty, and they're not, you know, you're not helping, you know, sustain these, these farmers. And I try to tell people all the time, it's like in a restaurant, I mean, how much, how little can you charge? You know, it's, yeah, maybe it's more expensive than you think, but you know, this is something that's really good. So people have to make a choice and I think they have to, they have to understand it. I think, you know, the thing we need to do better at chefs and restaurateurs and stuff. And, and hopefully journalists too is make people understand why they're paying what they're paying. Yeah.

Mark: 28:41

Mm-hmm.

Charlie: 28:41

You know,

Mark: 28:42

one of, one of the things that I, that I, that Francis and I talk about frequently and that we've gotten away from in this country is we shop once a week. Some people shop once every other week, and you, you just can't get the best products if you're, if you're going out once a week to the store. Sure to, to, to buy, produce

Francis: 28:59

your ultra homogenized milk is not gonna be as good if it's ultra homogenized. You know, that's, that's just, that's not a good thing. It says ultra, but it's not necessarily a good thing. Our guest today is Charlie Palmer. Um, Charlie Palmer is one of the most important American chefs, restaurateurs, authors, and he's been kind enough to talk with us today about the state of Dining in America, and we'll talk more with him in just a moment. You're listening to the Restaurant guys, Francis and Mark, You are back with the restaurant guys, mark and Francis. Our guest today is Charlie Palmer. Charlie Palmer owns or restaurant in Manhattan in Las Vegas. His latest venture is the Dry Creek Kitchen at the Hotel Hillsburg out in California. He's also an author and one of the top hundred celebrities in the country. Um, Charlie, we were talking, um, before about restaurants all over the country and you had invited me out to, Aureole when you opened it in Mandalay Bay and you put in there a wine tower. Which was sort of a very interesting, it's a cellar that, that is above ground. would you tell us about your wine tower? Because it's kind of Yeah, sure, sure.

Charlie: 29:55

Yeah. I mean the, the wine tower, the idea was we had an incredible selection, or, or incredible collection of wines, I should say, um, with our partners, which was one of the, one of the hotel owners. And I wanted to come up with a unique and interesting way to display the wine in the restaurant.

Speaker: 30:12

Mm-hmm. To make it

Charlie: 30:12

accessible to people. What we came up with is what we call what is, what has been dubbed the wine tower. And what it is, it's 43 feet high, it's 18, uh, feet square, um, glass and steel enclosure, which is all refrigerated in zones. So it's all temperature controlled in six different zones.

Mark: 30:31

You have to tell us about the wine ferries.

Charlie: 30:32

Yeah. And then in the middle is the core is like these Lucite. wine bins that hold, holds about 10,000 bottles. Yikes. And the way you access the tower is we have what we, uh, we have described as wine angels. And the wine angels are all, they have all, they all have some kind of acrobatic background, but they are, they hook up to these pulley and they have these literally thin, thin cables and they wear acrobatic harnesses and they go up and down in the tower and they have a very simple system. It's just a, they have an Earpiece and the sommelier on the floor have a microphone in their ties. And what happens is, like, you know, when someone chooses a wine, say it's, uh, wine 2207, she automatically knows it's side two bin 2 0 7. She goes, flies up in the tower, pulls the wine out of the, out of the, uh, bin. And brings it down and, and gives it to the, uh,

Francis: 31:21

so she flies up on these, on this rope system? On these cables? Yeah, on this cable system. They fly up there, Peter Pan esque. And, and they, you know what? I've never seen an ugly wine angel in your, in your tower. Black

Charlie: 31:33

Kelvin Klein's fan.

Francis: 31:34

Oh my God. I, you know, it's funny'cause I, I, I'm always tempted to ask a sommelier for which bottle is way up high.'cause that's the one I wanna order. You know, those are the

Charlie: 31:43

10,000 bottle for, I don't even

Francis: 31:45

know I, well, um, they aren't that hot. I will tell you though, the ugliest wine angel ever to fly in Charlie Palmer's tower was one night, you let me go up there. I dunno if you recall,

Charlie: 31:59

somehow you and I don't have that kind of like.

Francis: 32:03

I was actually a little scared, to be honest with you, but, uh, yeah, no, it's, it's a very beautiful and interesting thing. Now, wine is pretty important to all if ever,

Mark: 32:09

and Charlie, if ever you're looking for a wine linebacker, I'm your guy. All right,

Francis: 32:14

you're there. Um, but so now wine is overall, aside from the tower in the way it's presented, wine's very important to you and your cuisine. You're very active and I mean, obviously this is a centerpiece of a very important part of what you do.

Charlie: 32:26

Yeah, no, I consider, I mean, I consider wine a huge part of our business, first of all. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 32:31

Um,

Charlie: 32:31

you know, in the 11 restaurants. But, you know, what we try to do is create interesting and, and great wine programs for each restaurant. And each one is different. You know, like Dry Creek Kitchen, you know, my goal is to create the most exclusive, you know, collection of, of Sonoma County wines in existence. Mm-hmm. Now, and I think we're probably at that point, but, you know, we, we still have lots of, lots of places to go.

Francis: 32:54

But how important, um, but wine, do you think wine is incredibly important to the appreciation of food? Because I, I do,

Charlie: 32:59

I think, you know, I think food and wine are so intertwined at this point that it's almost like, uh, you, you have to have it. Mm-hmm. You know, you need to have it. Well, I

Mark: 33:08

think it's part of the experience and Yeah, of course it would be like going out to a restaurant and, and not having dessert. I think not having wine, it's all there. It is all intertwined and, and part of the same.

Charlie: 33:19

Well, you know, I think as a chef, you know, you can create an incredible dish. But if you can create an incredible dish and find the perfect wine pairing for it. It just puts it at that another level,

Mark: 33:29

one in one, one in one equals three, another one of our mantras.

Francis: 33:32

And you know, I think that's one of the things that comes with having a great wine staff. And you have always, I mean, my friend Steven Geddes, who, who invited me out to your opening, he was a master sommelier and you've always had great wine people in your organization. And hopefully we have great wine people in our organization, but we always tell people, you know what our mission is, is listen, you may not, even if you're not a master sommelier and you don't know the most about wine in the world. You should know more about the wines and the cellar of the restaurant you're working in'cause you're tasting'em on a nightly basis. And you should know more about the food that your chef is preparing so that you can put that thing together in a way that someone who, who's not as familiar with either. Um, can't do. And I think that's the, the mission of a restaurant. It's part of the dish. It, it's like, it's not just that the food is finished and then there's the, the great wine. It's that, like you said, they go together. Yeah. And only a staff that works with'em on a daily basis can see that. Yeah,

Charlie: 34:18

we've taken it to another level as far as like, you know, we, we did what I, what I call a joint venture with a number of wineries. I mean, we're so entwined and so entrenched in wine here in Sonoma that, you know, like Darryl Groom from Geyer Peak, the wine maker is, is our neighbor.

Mark: 34:31

Mm-hmm. Well, just like picking, uh, you know, the peaches from your neighbor, the, the wine is part of the agriculture in the region you're in.

Charlie: 34:39

Absolutely. I mean, I grow Pinots right outside my door here.

Francis: 34:41

Awesome,

Charlie: 34:42

awesome.

Francis: 34:42

So,

Charlie: 34:42

you know, that kind of thing. You know, like Rochiolis, my neighbor, you know, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, what we did is I took a collection of our sommelier, you know, Keith Goldston, um, Steven wasn't around at that point, but, um, from all the restaurants and we came, you know, we brought'em up to Sonoma and we went to these wineries and we blended. From eight different, uh, barrels or, you know, different, different lots. We blended a chardonnay for us

Francis: 35:06

only. Oh, and what's it called? What do you name yours called?

Charlie: 35:07

ISC, international Sommelier Conspiracy

Francis: 35:12

and always with a sense of humor. Hey Charlie, we want to thank you for taking the time to be with us. Charlie. Charlie. Charlie, thanks so much for

Mark: 35:16

joining the restaurant guys today. Hey, thanks for having,

Francis: 35:18

we're gonna link, we're gonna link your site to ours and you can find out about Charlie and pretty much wherever you are in the country, you're never too far from a Charlie Palmer restaurant. Thanks guys. Thanks. Take care, Charlie. Thanks very much. You're listening to the restaurant guys, that was a great little show we did today with Charlie Palmer as our guest. Well, it's not over yet, Francis. Well, the Charlie Palmer part is over. He's gone back to do whatever he's doing out in ca. He's just a really nice guy. Yeah. Restaurants all over the country. They all still have his imp premature, um, and Aureole and Manhattan still great beautiful restaurant after many years.

Mark: 36:13

Uh, I think it's, what's really impressive is, is his restaurants don't have a corporate feel. Not at all. Even though. He is clearly a corporation.

Francis: 36:20

Yeah. Well he talked a lot about, um, keeping good people. Mm-hmm. And he, when we asked him, why did you decide to expand and become a restaurateur with multiple restaurants, he said, I had great people in my organization. Mm-hmm. And eventually they were gonna leave. And, you know what? And you

Mark: 36:36

know, it was funny when he said that, the first thing I thought of was That's su was Yeah. I mean, one, one of the reasons we're opening a second restaurant is there were eight people in my organization. Who could run a restaurant who were capable of running a restaurant and, and if

Francis: 36:49

we didn't provide them with opportunities, they were gonna go elsewhere. Absolutely. And so we needed to be their, their best option. And you know, it's funny, you have a loyalty in the restaurant business when you work with talented people. Mm-hmm. They're loyal to you and they do great work for you and you need to be great for them. And you need to keep the opportunities there for them to grow as people and make the job a good part of their lives. And actually, we we're opening, uh, soon a restaurant called Catherine Lombardi in New Brunswick will be our second venture. And so if anyone's out there looking, who is a restaurant professional, we know because we get your emails that a lot of you. Were listening to this program. I'm looking for wine professionals and mm-hmm. Some places in the kitchen as well, because we're about to open up a pretty significant Italian, restaurant.

Mark: 37:24

and all we need to do is open about 12 more restaurants, a florist, a, a dairy, and a hotel. And we'll be right there with Charlie. One step at a time, man. One step at a time.

Francis: 37:37

Yeah. Also, you gotta remember thinking about Charlie Palmer is, he's, um. He's on TV and we're on radio. Mm-hmm. You know why?

Mark: 37:43

Because he is better looking than we are because

Francis: 37:44

he looks like he does. And we look like we do. Yeah. But he eat a lot of good food. Took a lot of good food to get me looking like this. Ah, that's all right. I don't mind. But I was a wine angel. In Charlie. In Charlie Palmer. So that must have been a fun ride. Super duper. Better than. Better than like, six Flags. You bet. Yeah. And there's wine at the end of it. Better, better than Lightning Loops. So if you wanna reach us, you can reach us at uh, restaurant guys radio.com, which we'll link you to stage left.com, which is our restaurant. you want to come and find out about the restaurant and have dinner with us. And we hope that you do on our way with our second restaurant to be just like Charlie Palmer. He's our hero. I'm Francis Shot.

Mark: 38:17

And I'm Mark Pascal.

Francis: 38:18

We are the restaurant guy, central Jersey. 1450 to time, 12 noon.