Francis: 1:58

Good morning, mark.

Mark: 1:59

Good morning, Francis.

Francis: 2:01

Little under the weather this morning.

Mark: 2:02

I, I'm a little sleepy.

Francis: 2:04

How's your wife?

Mark: 2:05

She's doing well. We're in the home stretch, as you know, and we had a little, I don't wanna say false alarm last night, but looking like it's, we're at any moment now for last month of her last, last little bit of her pregnancy here.

Francis: 2:17

So for the first half of the show, we are the restaurant guys, and if Mark's wife starts to have a baby and the second half of the show, I'll be the restaurant guy. Fortunately, we have some guests lined up. We had a very exciting morning. This morning. We went downstairs.

Mark: 2:28

Yeah. I got up a little too early today too.

Francis: 2:29

Yeah. Eight 30. We had a meeting at eight 30 in the morning, uh, in downtown New Brunswick, which is where our restaurant is located.

Mark: 2:34

Mm-hmm.

Francis: 2:34

And we were given an award. The, what, what was it called? The It's award. It's award. New Brunswick City Market.

Mark: 2:39

Best restaurant in New Brunwick, new Brunswick City Market. For, for those of you don't know, is an organization kind of like a Chamber of Commerce that, does a lot of, of really good work for New Brunswick.

Francis: 2:48

We love awards. We need to find some place to put it up on the wall.

Mark: 2:50

Mm-hmm. Alright.

Francis: 2:51

We had last week on the show we had, um, Ruth Reisch come up. Mm-hmm. And we got a lot of email about, uh, Ruth Reisch. People really liked having her on the show because Ruth Reisch is, for those of you who don't know, she's the editor in chief of Gourmet Magazine. She was a longtime restaurant critic for the New York Times, and she also came out with a, a book Gar Garlic and Sapphires, which is about her tenure at the times when she went around in disguises and really had a profound impact. In changing the way that that New York Eats and New York restaurants are reviewed.

Mark: 3:19

Yeah, she's a very interesting lady. She, she shed a little light for me on, on the other side, both with her book and, and the interview we did with her on the other side of how, how she views her job of, of reviewing restaurants and how, one of the things she said to me that really struck a chord was she said that she worries more about her good reviews than her bad reviews.'cause obviously we're more worried about the bad reviews than the good ones.

Francis: 3:42

Yeah. We don't wanna get one.

Mark: 3:43

Right. Exactly. Uh, but she said she worries more about the good reviews, than the bad reviews because she's more concerned about setting up a false expectation than for somebody, than for panning some poor restaurateur who, uh,

Francis: 3:55

You

Mark: 3:55

know, doing well.

Francis: 3:56

And she was in a unique position because, I mean, and this is not an exaggeration at all. The New York Times restaurant critic is the most powerful restaurant critic in the world. Okay? And it's costs so much to open a restaurant in Manhattan and so much at stake. Um, and people really, it's the culinary capital of America. And so things that she does, did there. Really changed the way that America looks at restaurants and I think in many ways to the good. And one of the things

Mark: 4:18

I, I think it also changed the way restaurants do their business. I think it changed the way restaurant, most restaurants anyway.

Francis: 4:23

Yeah. But not everybody got the message. There was one of the things that she talked about was, you know, the, the, the critics prior to her. Had focused on French restaurants, Western European restaurants above 14th Street. Mm-hmm. That were, that fit a certain formula. And she started going to, to sushi places and she started going to, you know, and some of the four star restaurants in Manhattan today are obviously sushi places. Masa is, is is based in sushi. she sort of was the herald of that. And the other thing that she was the herald of. Well, she went to places in disguise by the end of, Brian Miller's tenure by the end of William Grime's Tenor, everybody knew

Mark: 4:57

who he was.

Francis: 4:57

Everybody knew who was.

Mark: 4:57

Everybody

Francis: 4:58

could whip out a pad, start writing on the table, right? And she went in disguise. And sometimes her disguises were discovered and sometimes they weren't. And she might be, she's, and the disguises she chose were a frumpy Midwestern lady. Mm-hmm. Or you know, somebody, a little eccentric,

Mark: 5:12

somebody who's not gonna buy a$500 bottle of wine and, and be a favored customer

Francis: 5:17

necessarily. And she went as both places. And I think that was really

Mark: 5:19

mm-hmm.

Francis: 5:20

A very interesting, because it made, I think that she is largely responsible for making New York restaurants, which set the tone for the country nicer.

Mark: 5:28

Mm-hmm.

Francis: 5:28

You know, and that. The new, New York was the last bastion of, you know, the, the stuffy Mat D.

Mark: 5:34

Right.

Francis: 5:34

Making you feel like, well, are you, there's that old in the Steve Martin movie where they, he wants to go to the fancy restaurant and they. They check his credit and they're like, uh, no, I don't think that you can order this steak. You are credit. Your credit will only buy you the chicken. You know, that's changed. And I think, I think it's also, it's to the

Mark: 5:49

good for

Francis: 5:50

sure. And when we talk with Ruth, we talked about it being a whole experience. Sadly, in today's New York Times, uh, there is,

Mark: 5:56

somebody didn't get the message, Francis,

Francis: 5:58

there is a satisfactory review, which is, and for those of you who it's like, that's no

Mark: 6:03

star. Let lemme explain. Satisfactory. That was okay when you were in fourth grade.

Francis: 6:06

Right?

Mark: 6:06

Right. Not so good When the, when the New York Times were reviewing it. Yeah. It goes extraordinary. Four stars, excellent. Three stars, very good. Two stars. Good. One star satisfactory.

Francis: 6:20

That's no stars.

Mark: 6:21

Not, did not make the radar

6:22

and

Francis: 6:22

what's below that

Mark: 6:24

poor.

Francis: 6:24

Yeah. Which is also no stars,

Mark: 6:26

which is what you're gonna be if you get one of those reviews.

Francis: 6:28

But I think what's really interesting, and I think what we can really celebrate is that, um. Overall restaurants, whether they're in New York or wherever they are, and whatever price rings they are from the local pizzeria to Chanterelle in Manhattan. Mm-hmm. Or Lebec fan in Philadelphia. They've gotten the message that people want to feel appreciated and people want to feel welcome and it's a restaurant's job to do that for the King of Spain. But it's also a restaurant's job to do that to the stranger.

Mark: 6:51

Well, I think sometimes you have a greater responsibility as a, as a restaurant owner, you know that somebody can't really afford to be in your restaurant every day, and they're coming for that once a year special meal that they're gonna remember for the rest of your, their life. Mm-hmm. You have a, that's a big responsibility that a restaurant takes on at, at that moment.

Francis: 7:08

So the snooty factor is not allowed. And the other thing about the snooty factor is it really makes for a great bad restaurant review because when you, you know what,'cause we all wanna be the restaurant critic when we're being ill-treated by the mm-hmm. By the, um, or the server or the waiter.

Mark: 7:21

Right. The recent review that Frank Bruney wrote where, whereas the, the co check person gave him back his jacket, they said. Mated Honduras.

Francis: 7:29

Yeah.

Mark: 7:30

That's just beautiful.

Francis: 7:31

Well, and in today's, in today's review, he talks about, it's about a a, a Japanese place and it's called coi. And he calls the waiters, the COI stone cops.

Mark: 7:39

That's not good. That's not, that's not

Francis: 7:41

great. That's

Mark: 7:42

not good.

Francis: 7:42

But here's where it starts, and this is the most important thing about the review. He pans the food and all. Mm-hmm. But what he says, he starts off the, he says, the gates of coy are patrolled by a man with a single clipboard and an aloof Maine. He makes sure that no one without a reservation slips past, but as snarling purpose is as much a messenger as a guard. He wants the diners who breached this sanctum to believe that they have made a heroically privileged. Passage,

Mark: 8:03

right?

Francis: 8:03

Yeah.

Mark: 8:04

Mare D does not mean man, mean man at the door.

Francis: 8:06

Yeah,

Mark: 8:07

exactly. That's not what it stands for.

Francis: 8:09

Um, and you know, there's just no reason to accept that, right? There's really no reason to accept that. I remember I got that in France and I had some, I've had many times over the many years, great experiences in little bistro's and. Mm-hmm. Three star Michelin restaurants.

Mark: 8:24

I remember the name of the restaurant where we had a, the, that exact experience, you and I together

Francis: 8:29

mm-hmm.

Mark: 8:29

Was a Michelin three star restaurant. One, it supposedly one of the top 30 or 40 restaurants in the world.

Francis: 8:34

And the food was great

Mark: 8:35

was, we thought it was a restaurant called Ze. I, there, I outed them.

Francis: 8:39

There you go. Oh, ze. And we did the same, I did the same thing at traditional. I actually walked out of a meal at traditional and the food was great.

Mark: 8:45

Mm-hmm.

Francis: 8:46

But I thought to myself, you know. Why would I come here to be abused,

8:49

to

Mark: 8:49

spend$400 each for lunch

Francis: 8:51

to be in the or, you know? And frankly, even if I'm going for a hamburger,

Mark: 8:55

right, even if it was$6,

Francis: 8:56

I come here to have good food, to have good service, and to enjoy it. Mm-hmm. And even if it's a fancy and expensive place, and this is the important factor, I come into this place with the beautiful chandeliers and the beautiful silver war and the beautiful place. To buy into it. Mm-hmm. You know, you've created this for me,

Mark: 9:12

right.

Francis: 9:13

To, to take part in it and to participate in it and to feel part of it.

Mark: 9:17

And, and we're not talking about a mistake. We're not talking about somebody forgot something. We're not talking about just, just those, those things that happen in every restaurant. What we're talking about is an attitude

Francis: 9:28

and, and that's really helped because restaurants are very important and a very important part of our communities. As we go forward in the future, when we come back, we're gonna be talking to the food editor from Savor Magazine, Ms. Melissa Hamilton, who has New Jersey roots actually, and a national influence. You're listening to the restaurant guys, you're back for the restaurant guys, mark and Francis from Stage 11 Restaurant, and we are here. We have a special guest with us today. We have Melissa Hamilton, who is the food editor of Savor Magazine, our favorite food magazine. Hello, Melissa.

Mark: 9:57

Hi Melissa. Welcome to the show. Hey,

Melissa: 9:58

thanks for having me.

Mark: 9:59

We loved having you. your roots are New Jersey roots and, uh, we'd love to talk about that a little bit. Uh, how'd you get started in this business?

Melissa: 10:09

Uh, let's see. My mom, uh, my mom was a great home cook. Mm-hmm. Uh, she got us all into food in the seventies when, um. I think most people in my neighborhood were eating, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in their lunchbox.

Mark: 10:24

Right.

Melissa: 10:25

And he was sending us to school with Pate sandwiches.

Mark: 10:27

Nice. Now you grew up in the Lambertville area, Melissa?

Melissa: 10:30

I actually grew up in, uh, new Hope, Pennsylvania.