the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_140304 0:11

Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left in Catholic. Lo Marty restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Hello, mark. Hey Francis. How are you? I'm great. I'm looking forward to our guest today. Mr. Paul Clark is the editor in chief of Imbibe Magazines, celebrating 20 years. It's one of our favorite publications. He's a friend and it's gonna be a great interview. He's gonna be great. And one of, one of the things they do is the, Imbibe 75, where they talk about, the cool people who are doing cool things in the world. do want to talk a little bit about something though for Okay. For just a minute. That has to do with awards. Awards, okay. I am constantly seeing people walk up onto stage and say, I'm so humbled to be getting this award. Mm. And every time I see somebody say that, I think. You are so full of shit. You are so proud to be getting this award. Yeah. You worked your whole life to be getting this award and I think it's worse than the restaurant business. And I'm gonna tell you why. Okay? Why? Lemme tell you why I think it's worse than the restaurant business, because in the restaurant business you understand what it's like to be humbled. Mm. Okay? Mm. You gotta call 200 reservations on Saturday night and say. I'm sorry, a pipe burst. Oh, we have no running water. Oh. I just had, you can't come to dinner tonight. That's humbling. Okay. My pt, my ptsd, TSD just got triggered. Okay. I gotta, I, I didn't know you were going there. Please, please gimme a trigger warning before you do that again. Okay. There are so many humbling moments in the restaurant business when you accept your three Michelin stars. It is not a humbling moment. Yeah, okay. It's a moment you've been working for, for the last 25 years, and you got there and Hot diggity dog. We did it. You know, I remember we were, we were picked by a garden state organization as a wine and spirits professionals of the year, uh, back in 2018. I was not humbled. No. They gave us medals. We wore those medals. I wore that thing to bed. Okay. I wore it in the shower. My parents were like, what's that? I'm like, it's a medal. I'm the one in professional of the year. Do you have a medal? No. Oh, well you can't borrow mine. So for in your case, it was exactly the opposite of being humbled, right? Really? I am. I humbled. No, but I am humbled by things like that. Do you know what the most humbling moment in the restaurant for me? I, I, now you're gonna trigger my PTSDs. Uh, I, I'm gonna remember there's a very prominent law firm that is around the corner. Okay. And the senior partner, the named senior partner on that law firm, which was important to our business, came into dinner with his family. And it was his other partners and friends and subordinates who came in all the time and were real Peyton Swift. And he was going to the show. It is the only time that I remember in 35 years that I had to walk up to a table and say. Yeah, we're not gonna get your dinner out before the show starts. Oh, we're not. We just can't. We're not, it's not coming. Remember I told you it was gonna be a little few minutes, a few minutes to, it's not. I said We gotta fire the chef tomorrow. But right now I've got a on my face and I really, it was my, it was my, I remember that 31. Years, 30 years later, something like that. It's It's more than that. It's probably 32, 33 years now. Um, but yeah, fire the chef tomorrow. In my head I'm like firing the chef tomorrow. Fire the chefs.'cause'cause we had been lying to'em with everything we could do. Yeah. And we got everybody out. I mean, some of them out in the nick of time. This guy we're like, uh, you know, your show starts at eight and Entre will be here about eight 15. You know, I'll eat him. You know what I mean? And there's no charge. And he walked out and he never never set foot in the restaurant for a decade or more. Yeah. And never, never redeemed ourself in his eyes, even though his partners, everybody else in the firm was great. But you can be great for 20 years at one. You don't give somebody to the show on time. They don't forgive you. And you know what? I understand. It's okay. You know what it is? What is it? Humbling what I should have done. I shoulda have gone over the table and been like, I'd like to say that I'm very humbled, uh, by this non award and you're gonna hate me now. So I'm humbled. You know what I should have. I should have gotten one of those medals and worn it over the table to show him that I was, uh, so that's, that's a fact you didn't know about me. Whenever I see somebody at the awards and I'm like, I'm so humbled that the academy thought that I was deserving of such a thing, like, shut up. It's like that's, I won this. Thumbs up. It's all about me. Alright, listen, we're gonna talk to Paul Clark in just a minute about and buy a magazine. He's been covering this cocktail scene for 20 years. He's great. You're gonna have a lot of fun. Stick with us and you can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 4:37

Hey there folks. Our guest today is Mr. Paul Clark. Paul is editor in chief of the iconic Imbibe Magazine, celebrating 20 years. He's a fellow podcaster Radio IBI podcast. Took best podcast at Tales of the Cocktail in 2025. He's the author of the Cocktail Chronicles, navigating the Cocktail Renaissance with Jigger Shaker in Glass. He, believes, in being an advocate for a diverse liquid diet. We appreciate that very much. He's a friend and we couldn't be happier. To welcome to the show, Paul Clark. Paul, welcome to the show.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 5:10

Guys, it is so good to be with you. I wish I was actually in the room with you. Uh, but it's, it's, it's, I I will take this, uh, however, however I can get it.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 5:18

Well, I hope you don't mind, but I hope you don't win. Best podcast at Tales this year.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 5:23

I, I, it, it's, I, I'm, I'm out of the running, so it's, I think it's yours to take home this

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 5:28

I swear to God, I almost said when I announced your credentials there, I almost said, you bastard. Um,

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 5:36

It's the same thing I said this other Teague a couple years ago, so.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 5:40

so, um, and buy magazine, let's, we'll talk about the podcast later, but let's talk about it in Buy magazine. In an era in which, I mean, when we started our podcast 20 years ago, which is about when you started, when Buy magazine started, um, there were a ton of trade publications, a ton of consumer facing publications about the drinks industry and the food industry. And as we know in publishing. There aren't as many anymore. You know, it's a very tough environment out there. And IBE Magazine is iconic and important and fills a spot that nothing else fills. And everybody in the industry reads and bbe everybody about cocktails, reads, and bbe. Um, yeah, there are only a couple magazines that matter anymore, and happily IBE is one of them. What's the Magic man? Uh, how, what is Ibes mission and why have you survived? To be able to take it and, and retain that spot.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 6:33

Right. Well, I, I think you hit the nail on the head in, in your introduction to it in that we are not a trade magazine. we are consciously not a trade magazine. We are thrilled, absolutely thrilled that we are enjoyed by the trade that bartenders read us, the baristas read us the small years read us. Uh, it's amazing that we've been embraced by the industry in that way, but, we always remind ourselves, we always remind. Folks we work with, we are a consumer magazine. You can buy and buy'em in a grocery store. You can buy and buy'em in a liquor store. And we always need to keep that in mind that we're gonna have people who see us for the first time, who may have never, they may have never made themselves a martini and old fashioned before. Uh, they may have no idea what the difference between bourbon and rye is. And we always need to be able to like. Keep that door open and welcome new folks in. Give them the information and the tools they need to get started. And then we can also give them, you know, the, some of the great stuff that bars around the world are doing now with their recipes and their techniques and their approaches and the flavors they're working with. Absolutely. We can open that door so that when, when they go out, when they go out. You know, for dinner, go out for a drink somewhere. They have some kind of insight, some kind of ideas of what to order, what to look into. But we're trying to always welcome new folks into the fold. And I really, you know, when we look at our industry and we, when we look at publishing, especially, we always have to have new folks coming in. And that's always been first and foremost in our mind of welcoming the public in welcoming new people in while also giving the industry something that they need and something that's useful to them.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 8:01

Well, I think it's hard to strike that balance between being accessible to everyone but. You know, making sure that it, there's quality information. You read an article in imbibe and you learn something you didn't know. Or if you're a professional, you're like, oh, they got that right. And there's so much bullshit in the spirit's world and the liquor world and the, it's endemic and I think people can trust that your stuff is real, but it is also accessible to the public. Well, one of the things Francis and I are, are constantly talking about. at least to, to the people who bring us products is, and everybody wants to lead with the story. here's the story of this thing. Okay, you gotta lead with, is it great? And now I care about the story because it's great. Right? So I, and I feel like imba does that, right? You're you're telling the stories of the great products. You're telling the stories of the, of the products that matter. And, and that's, to me, that's, that's what I want in a magazine. I want a magazine that says, this is great. this is the story of why it matters.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 9:00

Right. I, I think one of the things is when we first came out, when we first launched in 2006, uh, there was this audience for information, for information about great beers, great wines, great spirits, great cocktails. Uh, and there was a, you know, in some ways kind of a, a disaffected writers group, um, who, who loved these things, who loved quality materials, really wanted to share information about it. Didn't want to just grind out another, you know, kind of pay to play article about, you know, some advertiser's, tequila when we came into it. We've been very fortunate in having these writers come along with this and so that I can talk to, uh, Josh Bernstein, who is our regular beer guy and has been since almost the very beginning. And I know that he knows the beer world, but he also knows quality in the beer world, and he is not gonna, you know, sell something bogus to us. Uh, we've done the same things with wine. You know, I was a cocktail nerd before and IBI ever launched. I came in as a writer with the. With issue number one. And you know, from the beginning I always kind of had that mindset like, no, we need to tell people the good things. Yes, to your point, tell'em the story, but tell'em what's good. Tell'em how to navigate this world. Give'em some insights into that. So we've always tried to embrace that and working with the writers that we work with and really making sure that, you know, we're, we're, we're doing our due diligence about the products and, and the cocktails that we're talking about, and that we're not putting suckers out there.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 10:18

You know, I think one of the things that has really changed in. In writing about wine and spirits, one of the things that Mark and I always viewed ourselves as being was a source of great information. I can separate the wheat from the chaff. I can tell you that's not really a distillery. It's just a brand name. And it's purchased whiskey from a big distillery in Indiana, which might still be delicious. Yeah. But, um,

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 10:37

Yeah.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 10:38

but the story about your grandfather was a bootlegger and you rediscovered the recipe and it seems to be making in your backyard. You're not making in your backyard. And, uh.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 10:46

many grandfathers were bootleggers making stuff in?

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 10:50

Everybody's great grandfather was a bootlegger. Um, but the thing about what's happened to a lot of the journalism or writing, let's not call it journalism and your magazine, is journalism. Um, when we started in the business, there was a big line between advertising and editorial so that the people gave unbiased reviews and it didn't matter how much you paid, if your whiskey sucked, they said your whiskey sucked. So much of the writing in the space, uh, of spirits now is. You know that it's being sponsored by the guy who's being written about and it's advertorial and it's, uh, and, and it's, it's unfortunate. And your magazine has, doesn't even have any whiff of that.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 11:34

Yeah. You know, I, I mean, this is nothing new as you know, if you, we can go back to print media, uh, go back even before photographs, and you're finding, you know, articles that are suspiciously fond of, of a, of an advertiser's product. Uh. And now you, you just, you know, scroll through Instagram, scroll through your Instagram stories, and you see influencers doing very much the same thing. And, you know, no, no hate to these guys. Everybody's got a right to make a living in their own way. But in our way, you know, we, we have always embraced that divide, that church state divide between advertising editorial, uh, right now. The day that we're having this conversation, I just finished proofreading our next issue, our anniversary issue of imbibe. And I don't even know, I didn't even know who the advertisers for this issue were until I saw everything in layout. Um, so it's, you know, I, I, I kinda live in the, you know, in this, in this blind world where I'm not really sure what's going on in the advertising site. And I. Totally happy, uh, with that. I know that you know that, that there's certain categories, you know, bourbon is always gonna be popular. Gin is always gonna be popular, always gonna have advertisers come along. Fantastic. But when we get into the topic, we can put our heads down, focus on the work, focus on the quality products, the interesting products, what's engaging out there without having to think of, you know, can, can we make some money off

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 12:50

Well, our side is more fun. Yeah, okay. It's just our side's more fun. Sorry. That's just the way it is. And the other thing is, as long as you don't spend too much time on. Of things that you're bashing. you're not necessarily telling somebody they can't be an advertiser, right?

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 13:06

you know, and to be fair, I mean like we don't really bash, you know, because again, going back to our point of us being a consumer magazine, we don't do.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 13:12

Mm-hmm.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 13:13

where we go through like, you know, 10 bourbons, A, B, C, F, you know, whatever. Uh, we pick things that we like, you know, we think, you know, as a consumer magazine, if we want to represent, you know, uh, six, uh, over proof tequilas, which is in our current issue right now, you. Let's look through a bunch of over proof tequilas, find six that we like, that we feel comfortable recommending to our readers. So, you know, there, there's plenty of great stuff out there. Uh, we really, there there's lots of choices for us to choose from. We like to turn readers onto the things that, that we enjoy, that we think they will like as well. I.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 13:44

You know, it, it's similar to the restaurant guys. Um, we have always, for 20 years now had a policy that when we find something that we don't like in a restaurant or a restaurant experience, We will talk about that experience and that thing.'cause I think it's useful to talk about things that don't work or aren't good or maybe are deceptive. We never named the restaurant. What we tend to talk about is mostly positive stuff. I mean, we talk about negative stuff all the time. We just don't talk about where it happened we talk about what went wrong, not where it went wrong. And we, whenever we talk about what went right, we talk about where it went. Right. And it's not that we're being Pollyanna, it's that. Why am I gonna go out seeking the things I don't like and that you won't like I'm, I'm seeking the things I do like, and it's the same in the restaurant. I. We have often talked Mark about our friends who go to work for a distributor, and they're selling the wines with that distributor, and that's great, and I respect them. It's a really hard job. It's a really hard job, but they have to sell stuff that they may not like or believe in, or think is great. Sometimes that's part of their job. We own the restaurant. We, we don't buy anything that we don't believe in, so they say, you're a great salesman and can sell anything. I'm not a great salesman. But I, I'm a great buyer, you know, mark and I are great selectors and then I can sell you stuff'cause we, we love it. And it sounds like you're doing kind of the same thing. Yeah. It's funny. We literally will say to our staff, you know. Tell people the truth. Yeah. be honest and forthright and people will feel that. Yep. That's, and it comes across, and frankly, that's your magazine comes across and has always come across that way to me.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 15:12

And, and there's always room for, for that kind of criticism. Uh, you know, like Francis, you and I have, we have judged spirits together for the American Distilling Institute. And like you say, that's a, that's a time where like everything hits the, hits the table blind. You say, yes, I like this. No, I don't like. This, and here's why for, for both of those. And it's feedback that goes back to the producers. And it's, in those cases, it's helpful where you're having that kind of wide variety of experiences so that you know what's good, what's not so good. And you can have those frank open conversations with the producers about what you like, what you don't like about it. It's not, you know, you're not putting anybody in their place. You're trying to be helpful in that regard. For, for ibi, for us, you know, always thinking of, you know, what does the consumer need? Why are PE people picking up the magazine? They're not really picking it up to say, oh wow, that tequila sucks. Uh, they're looking for something that they can put in their margaritas this weekend.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 15:58

Well, let's talk about 20 years,'cause that's a big deal 20 years since of this podcast, and we had an interruption. 20 years have been by magazine, no interruption. Congratulations on your no interruption and.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 16:08

Woo. I mean, knock wood, throw salt over your shoulder, do something. So,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 16:12

Well, let's talk about 20 years ago and Buy Magazine was there to tell people it's okay to have an egg white in your drink. Uh, no. You shouldn't use sour Mix out of a gun or a bottle. And now it's gotten much more sophisticated. You wanna give us a little insight into the arc of, of what IBE has been doing in explaining to people from 20 years ago to today.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 16:33

Sure. Absolutely. So, so when Bob launch our, in our inaugural issue was in May, 2006. Uh, it was founded by Karen Foley, who still owns and still publishes the magazine Today. We're an independent operation. I'll come back to that in a little bit. Uh, but the goal from the beginning was to look at all of these kinds of interesting currents that you've mentioned. You know, like Kraft cocktails, third wave coffee. Karen comes outta the coffee world. So that's, you know. Significant importance and, and interest or, uh, natural wines, craft brewing, ba I mean, if you think of where craft beer was in 2006, it existed, but nowhere on the scale that it would 10, 15 years later. So all of these things were kind of brewing and there was this recognition that this was all happening. The major food publications at the time, we loved them, but they're focused on food, which is amazing, but nobody was focusing. Solely on drinks and fo focusing solely on the producers and the things that were good and the things that were interesting. So imbibe stepped into that role. We were the only magazine that we're not a trade magazine or just like a solely wine magazine that landed on newsstand shelves that answered these kinds of questions. Gave, gave you a martini recipe, told you, oh, you don't know what cocktail bitters are. Here are several different ideas for things to search for, uh, when you're, when you're going to the store and kind of providing people with that kind of information. To bring into their own lives, bring into their own homes, and give them something to work with. As I noted a moment ago, we, we, we got very lucky with the nerds. Uh, I was one of them. I don't know if they were lucky to get me as a nerd, but I, I'm a nerd and I'm here. Uh, and, uh, you know, to have the nerds come along and say, okay, you know what? I love wine. I respect wine. I want to talk about the wines that really matter right now that are important. You know, winemakers who are doing things with integrity, with quality, And, uh, the same thing all across the, the beverage spectrum. One thing that's also, I need to call this out, um,'cause w we, you mentioned it a few minutes ago, what was our mission? If you look on the front cover of imbibe, you know, let's say IBI liquid culture and liquid culture has been there from, from issue number one, from the very beginning. And for the first 10 years or so that we were publishing, we really leaned on the liquid side of that equation. You know, saying, you know, you've never heard of rye whiskey. Here's what rye whiskey is. Absence became newly, legally available again during our, during our run. Here's what absence actually is. Let's talk to the experts about what it actually is. How do you know what's good from what's bogus the last 10 years? After we did that, kind of like building blocks, uh, education, the last 10 years, we've really leaned on that culture side a little bit more to say, let's talk about some of the people who are behind these beverages, the people who make them, the people who serve them, uh, the people who make the cocktails. And we've really kind of emphasized that a little bit more these past 10 years because as we've seen this overall consumer education and knowledge come up over the years, they wanted to know. More of the context, right? You know, people, it's just like with, with, with the, with the food that's on your plate. Who grew the beans? Who grew the vegetables? Where is this cow raised? You know, for the steak that's on my plate, people are asking those same kinds of questions about the mezcal in their glass and about, uh, the wine in their glass, and, and they should know the answer. So we've been leaning on that a little bit more. Uh, and so that's kind of our long career arc broken down in two major chapters.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 19:41

I think, I think that's a, a great analysis and I wanna, I mean, it is one of, it's one of our favorite magazines, so. We're not just blowing smoke because, we read this magazine, I get value outta this magazine and I, I, you know, we know a decent amount about spirits. I think what you say is really relevant because maybe in the beginning. People needed to know, well, if I don't use sour mix out of a gun, how do I make a sour mix? Right? Lemon, lime, egg white. What? Sometimes egg white, sometimes not. Um, and now you can, you have Google, okay? And you didn't have Google 20 years ago, and you have AI and you can find out discreet pieces of information. And I think what you guys are doing is telling the story and. What Imbibe has always brought, and this is totally separate from the subject that it's about, I like to read, you have good writers. It's enjoyable to read the magazine and often in trade publications or publications where there's a lot of good information about Spirit. It's a dry read man. But you know, it's a good story. I sit down with a story and I enjoy it. Talk to us about the, the literary conventions and the literary standards you have for the.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 20:47

Well, I mean, I really, I, I think we've been incredibly fortunate in that uh, we've had writers out there in the world who wanted to contribute these kinds of creative approaches. You know, our very first issue, uh, we ran a character's profile of Ted Hay of Dr. Cocktail who had written his book, vendor Spears and Forgotten Cocktails that came out in 2004, I believe. Uh, and you know, Ted is, you know, he's a great, um. behind cocktails, and he knows the history of, of, uh, classic cocktails. He knows the history of forgotten cocktails and forgotten spirits, but he's also a hilarious person and a very good writer, very engaging writer. He is, he is very good at captivating people. So after we ran that profile, Ted became our first regular columnist. For Ambe. And he, uh, did that position for, for several years. He was followed by David wdr and like Dave, you know, Dave is a former English professor. He was out there in the world, you know, he was writing for qui at the time and he was writing for us for a little while as well, which was amazing. And now we've had Wayne Curtis as our third, uh, regular columnist over the years and Wayne, it's been my great pleasure over the past however many years to have been his editor for that.'cause. Really, I just. I get to read Wayne's stuff and I get to communicate with Wayne. Uh, he is a good friend and he is an amazing writer, and it's been this kind of thing where we have this great opportunity to work with really talented people out there in the world. Creative professionals, people who are passionate about wine, passionate about beer, but also really skilled writers. Really good at taking that subject and making it available to people. Because you know, I've always thought, and I, back when I was a freelance writer, writing about spirits and cocktails, I would look at some other writing out there and I would think, you know. You're taking this subject that is fun. It's delicious, it's hilarious. It's full of stories, it's full of history, it's full of joy, and you somehow made it boring. How did you do that? You know? And so if you're able to do that, I'm like, you've, you've done this entire category disservice. So when we're looking at drinks, writers, you know, you want people who are captivating and engaging, uh, because really the story. The stories tell themselves you need to be the vehicle for it. And you know, we've been, again, immensely fortunate to have so many folks we worked with over the years who have been really good at, at, really good at doing that.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 22:53

Well, one of the things you've done with each of those people is, and although your magazine's, you know, not exactly doing exactly what it was 20 years ago, you've stayed, they've stayed on the line, they've stayed. you've stayed true to what you do. You know, we're here 34 years and we're different. We're different restaurant than we were 34 years ago, but we never. Changed from the core principles of what we were doing. We never changed from, just being for us, stage left and or Ka Lombardi. Those restaurants have, stayed the course, though. They're different than they were, uh, 25, 30 years ago. If, if that makes sense.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 23:34

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we, we've always had that through line and I think that's testament to Karen, Karen Foley, the publisher, uh, always kind of keeping that in mind while was her founding principle coming in. Uh, I think it benefits, you know, I came in with issue number one. Number one as a writer. I came in, uh, as an editor in 2013. Uh, so I've been with IBI pretty much since the very beginning for almost, I think there's only one issue I didn't write anything for that was like. Issue number three or something back in

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 23:59

You selling ads.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 24:01

no, no, no. I was, it was like, I was, I was still like working to, to get into this. And then, you know, again, you know, we've been very fortunate to have, um, Josh Bernstein, uh, who's been our beer writer since 2006. Uh, so we have these kinds of, through lines of people in part of it. But let me touch on one other thing. I mentioned just a moment ago, moment ago, and that is independence. Um. And Bob is an independent publication. We are not owned by Conde Nast or by Hearst Publications, or by any big media conglomerate. Really. That's probably the only reason we're still here. Uh, because if we had somebody that said, wow, this is a stupid way to spend money, we could wait, make way more money, uh, doing, doing other stuff, uh, but. That's given us our ability to keep our independence and to keep our focus, keep our eye on the ball, and just kind of keep it together. And when in times when things have been really tight, like during, you know, the global economic and in 2009, 2008,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 24:53

We remember.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 24:54

during the COVID Pandemic, you know, during whatever times we're going through right now, whatever we're calling this period right now, um, it gives us a little bit more flexibility. Um. So that we can remain kind of nimble. And since we're small, there are only eight of us in the entire company. Uh, since we're small, you know, we're not over, uh, you know, we're, we're not deep in debt, let's put it that way. Uh, we're not fully leveraged out. And I think also having our team so tight, uh, and having folks who really love the subject. On our staff, and as part of it, you know, we can do a lot of this ourself and really kind of like keep the wheels going and keep in mind what's the vision that we have, what do we wanna convey to people and why? Why do people love us in the first place?

Francis 25:35

I think there's a parallel there. Mark and I always talk about how if you wanna be a truly independent restaurant and be able to stick around for a while, you've gotta own your building or at, you've gotta at least have an option to buy it. So you can be first in line with your invest. Of its decide to go. Um, and you said a very sim similar thing. It's we're small but independent. And I'll bet at different times during the career of imb. Somebody, one of those big publications, would've paid a nice payout to fold you into their organization. Somebody would've paid for this building to make it into something else. And you know what? We made choices in our lives to say, no, mark and I wanna do this. I believe in this. It's good for us, it's good for the city. Maybe I'll make a little more money if I sell out now. But, eh, you know, I, We want to continue this mission and I think there's a similarity there and restaurants, uh, should pay attention to it as well. We have to take a break, but I wanna tell a quick story before we go. He mentioned Ted Hay, Dr. Cocktail When, and he Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails is a very important book to us. It came out in 2006, I believe. we opened Catherine Lombardi in 2005, and we had a section of the cocktail menu called The Barrows. And we had an Astoria and we had a Brooklyn and we had a Manhattan. Uh, we didn't have a Staten Island, but we had to have, uh, we had to have a Brooklyn, and we couldn't find. The what we needed to make at Brooklyn, which required, um, Amer Picon, which isn't made, wasn't available in the United States at that time. And even though it was made, it was a different formula and it didn't make a good Brooklyn anymore. And so we found, somehow, mark and I, through exhaustive research, we found Tara Amer appetizer, which was the Americ colon replacer. And it was, which Robert Simonson called in your publication, the Only Good Brooklyn he ever had, and he loved. He said, I, everybody makes me broke on their own. They all suck. And then we made him one. He is like, wow, this is good. And it is the only one I've ever had. So then. Less than a year later, Ted Hayes book came out with Ani Amer appetizer. And I was like, no, we did it first. We did it first. And then here's some news for you breaking news. Ani stopped making Amer appetizer. It's a tragedy. Oh, and they sold to another company. It's not the same. We're we're trying to restore our Brooklyn. We have a few bottles of Brooklyn's buried in the cellar'cause they would improve with age. It was our signature cocktail for 20 years. Um, but we're working on it. But there's a, there's a heartbreaker of a story for you with, Imbibe magazine

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 28:03

Oh

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 28:04

Magazine. Listen, we'll come back on the other side. We can talk more with Paul Clark about and Buy magazine and some of the cool institutions and events that they have founded over the years. Stick with us. You can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com. hey there folks. We talking with Paul Clark magazine of course. And. It's not just the magazine, it's the award-winning podcast, which will put links to those on our show. But you at Mbba Magazine have started a few things over the years. One of them is Negroni Week. Everyone in the restaurant business or the bar business knows Negroni Week. But they don't know that it's an imbibe origination. Tell us if, if I were Campari, I would give you a big hug. That's what I would do. Wow. And a Big Jack. And a Big Jack. Tell us about Negroni Week, how it came about, what it is, and what it's become.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 30:15

Right. So, so Negroni week, uh, it's been around for a number of years now, and it, and it came out, you know, it started off as a Portland, Oregon, uh, institution because in my global headquarters are in Portland, Oregon. And it started off just kind of a local thing. Let's do, you know, let's have bars mix up negronis and give some money to charity. And really that's about it. We love Negroes, we love charities. We love giving back. Let's go from there. Now, here we are. Fast forward a number of years. Uh, there are, I don't even, boy, I wish I'd been prepared for this. I don't even know the number of bars that have participated over the years or, or that participated last year. But it, but it's, it's, it's safe safely in the thousands, uh, of bars around the world, literally around the world. Participated in Negroni Week. I have spent in Negroni Week, uh, on the road before where I've been in, I've been in the Sydney Australia one time and saw what they were preparing for Negroni week. I have been. I was in, uh, helico, Mexico, uh, last year for Negroni Week, and a bar said, Hey, it's Negroni week, here's your Negroni. Uh, and I was like, yeah, I was in, in the town of tequila and they're handing me a negroni and an observation of it. So Negroni Week has grown to become this massive global phenomenon. It is still a charity fundraising event. Uh, early on we gave participants would give money to a number of different, uh, recipients. We decided to maximize the impact of, of that giving. And so we've had one. giving partner, uh, one designated giving partner for the last few years, and that's been slow food. But guys, when you think about all, everything I was talking about in the first segment about imbibe and kind of whatever principles are, what our goals are, the things we support, things we stand for, slow food, really. Reflects all of that slow food, uh, puts a value on the producers, uh, puts a value on quality, puts a value on, on integrity. Uh, and these are all things that we love within the food and beverage sector. And they didn't really have a dedicated aspect regarding cocktails. Uh, and so we wanted to help kind of step into that role, help them out. But also help fund some of the major work that Slow Food has been doing over the years. And some of these projects, I mean, they, they, they have an educational system where they will pay to bring bartenders who might not have the economic means. Uh, bring them to tales of the cocktail, bring them to Tara Madre, the Slow Food Tara Madre event. Uh, also providing grants to organizations that work within the hospitality sector that work, uh, in parallel with the hospitality sector to help quality food and beverage.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 32:34

So tell us how it works. How does Negroni Week work? How does it raise money for charity and why is it so cool? And you have a lot of cool swag as well.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 32:41

Right. Well, first off, the, the math was impossible. It started off saying, okay, sign up for Negroni week and then like, give a dollar from every negroni that you sell at your bar to a designated charity. And that gets really messy, just trying to do all the accounting and the math on that. So we made it much more easy, much more streamlined the past few years. You still go online to negroni week.com to sign up your bar, uh, your restaurant, your your institution to participate. Every year. And then you just make a donation. You pick the amount of the donation, uh, that, that whatever works for you, whatever's comfortable for you to give. And then you participate during Negroni selling Negroni, selling Negroni type things, Negroni relatives. Uh, and the money that's raised goes to slow food.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 33:23

when is Negroni week?

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 33:25

Uh, Negroni we is is every September, typically in mid-September.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 33:29

I wanna talk about what has happened with the Negroni because it has just gotten a life of its own. And then all the different iterations, which you just alluded to a second ago. You know, Dale DE's got the Deney and then there's the Boulevard DA and you know, all the different types of, spinoffs from the Negroni. has just become, everybody's go-to cocktail. It's everybody's go-to cocktail. Hey, you know, I don't wanna think I'm just gonna have a Negroni I'm gonna have while I'm, while I'm looking at the cocktail. menu I'll have a Negroni That's a classic We do that all

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 34:01

the time Yeah. Well, I mean, when you think about 20 years ago, who drank negronis us and that's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, and the Negroni, you, you bring up a very good point, you know. Early in the days of the cocktail Renaissance, uh, you know, people who, you know, we started like, we got into daiquiris, we got into Manhattans. Uh, the Negroni was coming up and like the eroni was, was kind of scary'cause the Negroni was bitter. It was a little bit more challenging. It wasn't something you just like dive right in. Like When you have your first delicious daiquiri made with. Fresh lime juice and sugar and a quality rum like, oh my god, you know, the, the, the clouds have parted. I've had something amazing. Your first Negroni. You're like, okay, I think I can do this. Um, and you know, and it takes a while to kind of come around to that flavor and that's just. You know who we are, especially, you know, for the American palate. But you know, bitterness is one of those flavors that it's a very mature kind of flavor. It's like, you know, drinking espresso the first time you, you have an espresso in your life, like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do this. Um, but then after you do it a number of times, you can't imagine a world without espresso. The same with a Negroni. And I think to your point of the Negroni variations. They've always been out there, of course, the spa or the Boulevard. However, nobody, again, going back 20 years, nobody knew what a Boulevard A was. Uh, because if you recall, the only place that had turned up was in, uh, was at Barflies and Cocktails right from the 1920s. Um, and that book was incredibly rare. I know,'cause I was like one of those nerds trying to collect things on eBay and that was one I could not find. And I, like, no matter how much searching I did over the years, I could not find a copy eventually. The recipe and the story behind the boulevard ran in Ted Hayes column in Imbibe in one of the early issues of ibe. And that was my first introduction to the name Boulevard for that recipe. And after that issue came out, that was when I started going into bars and seeing it on menus, or seeing it not even on menus necessarily, but the bartenders saying, Hey, you wanna try something cool? And they would serve a bowl of verdier and they would tell me the story. I thought, that's amazing.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 36:03

That's great. Tell me my story. Tell me my story.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 36:05

exactly. Exactly. And, and you know the story, I, I shared this before, but I'll, I'll share it with you. So you know, the first place I ever had a Boulevardier was at my regular bar at the time, which was Zigzag Cafe here in Seattle.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 36:16

yeah.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 36:17

Murray Stinson was, was the bartender there at the time for a number of years.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 36:20

Great guy.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 36:20

And, uh, he was the one who, like, I sat down at the bar. He said, what do you want? Uh, which let me make something for you. And he made a boulevardier and he handed it to me like, oh, I read about this in Ted Hayes column, except since he'd read the word and never actually heard it. He, he called it a boulevard ear. You know, the American

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 36:37

Uh,

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 36:38

the Boulevard ear,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 36:38

I like it.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 36:39

okay. Boulevard ear, Boulevard ear, you know, doing that. It wasn't until several months later I was talking to somebody else out there in the cocktail world and they used the French pronunciation, Boulevardier. I thought, oh, that would make sense, you know, because the drink originated in France. So that's probably the correct pronunciation. The next time I am in Zig. Sat on across the bar from Murray. The co-owner at the time, Casey Fitch was standing next to him, asked, what are would you like? He said, could I get a Boulevardier? Murray just like gets this look on his face, just like the fish eye. Like what did you say? I said, could I get a Boulevardier? And he tries it out a couple of times, you know, like kind of trailing his fingers a little bit to be fancy Boulevardier. And he turns to Casey and says, we could have been charging$2 more. So, um, so that was, so the Boulevard a and, and on all of these Negroni variation to bring it back around to your, to your original topic. Yeah. These were not anywhere 20 years ago. I mean, it was old men and old Italian men who were drinking, uh, Negronis. But now I think partially due to this kind of natural expansion of our palettes, as we've gotten more accustomed to cocktails and more accustomed to Amari and, and different kinds of aifs and all different flavors, aca across the beverage spectrum, but also I think in gro week has been a part of that

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 37:50

Oh sure.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 37:51

There's been this focused effort at bars and restaurants around the world for a week in September where like everybody is just drinking Negronis and Negronis, Lias and B RDAs and everything along the the Negroni spectrum. So I think it's helped kind of push that on down the road a little bit.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 38:07

one of our innovations that we did here, someone else might have done it as well, but we served for a while frozen negronis the first year that, um, tales of the cocktail made the frozen drink their signature. We made a frozen negro. And it is. Some people think it's disgusting, but it is delicious. Yeah.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 38:25

Oh, a frozen and is amazing. It's like, yeah,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 38:29

So the thing I just wanna refer to a, a guest we had on back, oh, 20 years ago on the show, one of our first really amazing guests on the radio was a guy named Dr. Steven Wither Lee, who wrote a wonderful book, if you could look it up online, you can probably get it in A PDF for a dollar 99. It's called Why Humans Like Junk Food. And he's a neuroscientist that talks about why people like and, and how people perceive things differently cross-culturally and universally. And one of the things that he clued us into was. When you encounter something bitter that you have not are not familiar with, your brain says poison.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 39:03

Mm-hmm.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 39:04

you are, you put it down, but coffee, beer, that's so you don't be dead, right? But coffee, beer, a lot of things, if you go back to it and you have it a second time, you may not have as adverse a reaction to it. And when you go back to third or fourth time, your brain says, okay, bitter. But I recognize that we didn't die last time. So turn off the alarm bells and so by the time you get to 10 times, yeah, so when, so for coffee, for instance, first time, good or bad coffee, if you've never had coffee before, it may just taste bitter and nothing else. But when you've had it a number of times and the alarm bells have stopped going off, you can tell the difference in, oh, that's a great cup of coffee. That's a shitty cup of coffee. And. I think what may have the alarm bells still go off for a shitty cup of coffee. Francis, sorry. For a shitty cup of coffee, they go off. But for a good cup of coffee, the, the alarm bells are not activated. And I think that's what happened with the Negroni. Somebody said, oh, you like a Negroni? I'll have a sip of that. Nah, I don't like it. Ah, really? You're still drinking that? I'll have a sip of that. Nah, I don't like it. And then I'll have a Negroni. You know what I mean? I think that's what happened to America. We grew up.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 40:02

Exactly, and, and, and I mean like, but also one thing leads to another, and that's why, you know, everybody in the bar world is now, you know, giving each other shots of malate. So that's, that, that's,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 40:12

Too far.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 40:13

that's the, the natural, you know,

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 40:14

We've taken it too far, that's for sure. For 15 years. I keep not liking it, you know what I mean? That's for sure. You know, we talk about the spinoffs of, of all the, uh, negroni cocktails, but the, the simplest one that is. Always my go-to in a bar. If I'm in a, in a quality bar and I wanna spend some time looking at the list before I order a drink, is I order an Americano? Yeah. It's, it is just, it's my go-to like, okay, this is gonna quench my thirst. It's not gonna be too high in alcohol. I can, and I can study the cocktail list and decide which way, which direction this day's about to go. Okay. Footnote, uh, Negroni is, gin, Campari and vermouth. And Americano is, Campari vermouth and club soda. A long drink. The gin's replaced by club in a long drink. Yes. And great to drink on the sidewalk. Yeah. Lovely little summer day. You just got off the golf course. Kinda can I give everybody my advice? Mark knows how. I like to drink Americanos in the summer on the sidewalk by the many. By the men, by the many, never enough ice. Okay? There's never enough ice. And I always instruct them you, they put in the I am fussy. You put in the liquor on the bottom, then goes in the ice, then you fill with soda. So that's just soda on the top and there's more liquor on the bottom. And I always ask for a backup of ice and a backup of soda, and it's the everlasting gobstopper of drinks. I just

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 41:32

There you

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 41:32

do it all night long. Um, okay. Final note I definitely wanna talk about very, very important thing about Imbibe is everybody knows about the Imbibe 75. Talk to us about that.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 41:44

Sure. Well, I'm not sure if I was prepared for that question. The IBI 75 is an annual list that we do every year. We, we do it in our January, February issue to kick off the year. And it's a way for us to highlight for people the, the, the people in place that are going to change the way we drink in the months and the years ahead. It's not simply a best of

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 42:03

Exactly.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 42:04

uh, because there are lots of best of lists out there, and it's. Definitely not a 30, under 30 or 40 under 40.'cause people are bringing lots to the game all throughout their careers. Uh, so we like to highlight people all across the spectrum. And this, you know, again, this is, goes back to everything IBA does. It's not just spirits and not just cocktails. We do beer, we do wine, we do coffee, we do kombucha, we do milkshakes, we do anything that you can drink. We, we like to highlight it. And the 5 75 is a way for us to highlight some folks, uh, who are doing really creative and interesting things. Sometimes they're reaching a, uh, maybe they're doing something new, like they're opening a new bar, opening a new restaurant. So that's kind of timely. Maybe they're reaching a new plateau in their career where they're, they're a manager at a place and they just open their second, their third, uh, outlet for, for that bar or for that restaurant, or maybe. There's somebody who is an activist doing something on an engaging level at a cultural level to really make us think about, you know, the world of mezcal and how, and how that impacts, uh, the communities that, that grow, the agave and that make the mezcal. And also it's also places we highlight new bars. We highlight, uh, uh, coffee shops. We hit highlight places all across the country for this year, for 2026, we did something a little bit different for the IBI 75. We did this intentionally because up to now, you know, we're. We're based in Portland, Oregon. The bulk of our readership is in the United States, some Canada, uh, but we have this global audience online via social media and via our website and via our podcast. And so for anniversary, for 20th anniversary year. We said let's do a global in Bibe 75. So this way we can include bartenders, uh, and coffee roasters from South America, from Africa, from Asia, bring in folks from around the world who really kind of, uh, fit in with, with everything that we, we believe that we wanna support and we wanna share that with our readers. We really want to highlight that globally and also engage with these folks online on social media so that. Folks who may not be as familiar with Ibai, but they live in Australia or they live in Japan, or they live in GE in Argentina. So the folks in their local areas are, are posting that they've been in IBA and, and it's, and it's going on in those local circles as well. And it's been amazing to see. And so, yeah, so the IMB 75, it's just 75 people in places who are changing the way we drink.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 44:18

I have to say, um. IMB is a smart publication and you have corralled a bunch of smart authors and you are the smart editor that makes'em happen. And the Imbibe 75 is really important in the industry. Everybody knows, and not just in the industry, but if you're in the conversation about what you imbibe. Um, it really does. You are really important to the conversation of what's going on with wine and cocktails and spirits and, um, it's super great and everybody should subscribe to and buy magazine if you wanna know what's going on in the world and, uh, be part of a really smart conversation. definitely some cool people, writing about some really cool things. Keep it up. Paul, thanks for coming on the show. Uh, it's terrific. We're big supporters of you, big fans, and it was great to be able to have a conversation with you and the restaurant guys, listeners.

paul-clarke_2_03-24-2026_100144 45:02

Thanks so much guys. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and thanks for having me on the

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_130148 45:06

Of course we'll be. Thank you very much for coming. We'll be we'll be back in just a moment. Don't go anywhere. You can always find out more about us in the meantime, like follow and subscribe@restaurantguyspodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_1_03-24-2026_134815 45:32

Hey there, he's great. That magazine is great. It's, uh, keeping the conversation going. It was a lot of fun. You know, he, he obviously subscribes, and I use that word on purpose, subscribes to the same philosophies that we do. Oh, yeah. If you, if you use the word in French. You can charge$2 more. I love that Harry Cobert two extra dollars more than string beans our whole lives. Exactly. Why? Why? But these are, why, why aren't we writing string beans on the menu? Because Harry Cobert costs$2 more. So, I know I've told this story before, but I hope our listeners will indulge me if you haven't heard it. But I, when he said he went and sat down at the bar and then he had the bartender tell him Oh yeah. His own story. Oh, that's great. My experience with that was was we invented a cocktail called the Belfast Cocktail for when the Lord Mayor of Belfast came here to meet our mayor of New Brunswick. Yeah. And then we took a trade delegation over there and, um, they made it in the city hall there. And a couple years later I was at a bar in Belfast. And, um, you know, the thing about cocktail names is, you know, yeah, you, you, you're, you're first or you're the, there was one on the menu. I'm like, oh, damn it, somebody else has the name Belfast Cocktail. And I went up to the bar and I said, um, I'll have a Belfast cocktail. What's in that? And they were telling me the ingredients. I'm like, that sounds familiar. I said, did you invent that here? He said, nah, some fucking yank invented it. Me, the owner of the bar. Is that something in city hall? You are the fucking yank. I'm fucking, that's exactly what I said to him. I'm that fucking yank. It was great. It was really great. Well, anyway, I hope you guys have enjoyed the time with us and, your libation uh, podcast episode. stick with us always. You can check us out@restaurantguyspodcast.com. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys. See you next time.