Francis 0:41

good morning, mark.

mark 0:42

Hey, Francis, how are you?

Francis 0:43

I'm well, thank you.

mark 0:44

You know, there are, there are some new awards coming out, Michael Rollman, who's been a, a fairly frequent guest on the show, and Anthony Bohan and other ex guest of, uh, the restaurant guys are coming out with a new set of awards. I think they're kind of a, thumb To the eye of, the awards that currently exist. So they're coming out with kind of a, a, a different. Type of award. And, uh, this award show is gonna happen, by the way, at at South Beach Wine and Food Festival in February of oh eight. But they've come out with some, some pretty interesting awards. We had a guy on a show a little while ago called, uh, named Fergus Henderson, who's kind of the four. Runner of this, nose to tail movement here in the United States and

Francis 1:23

explain what the nose to tail movement

mark 1:25

is. Well, it's, it's where, you know, we're, we eat the whole animal and the, especially focused on the al which is the, the organs and, and parts that generally this generation hast eaten, but prior generations always did.

Francis 1:37

The heart, the liver, the kidney,

mark 1:38

trotters. Lungs, all the parts of the animal that that would be tossed away in, in today's society made into document if it weren't for this comeback, but you know, you've made it when Roman and Bourdain name an award after you.

Francis 1:52

Okay, there's the Fergus Henderson Award.

mark 1:54

The Fergus Award is for the best achievement in oval.

Francis 1:57

Excellent.

mark 1:58

And so that's, that's a pretty serious award. But, but some of their other awards are, are pretty good too. the chef chef award for the least heralded chef, yet, yet most deserving working chef. But the counterpoint to that, and not that he is not deserving, but is the Mario Award for the chef restaurateur who. Best multitasked, merchandised, multi-platform and generally hoard himself or herself, uh, yet still continue to make a significant and valuable contributions to the, to the restaurant landscape.

Francis 2:26

I gotta get me some of that. I wanna win that award someday because,

mark 2:30

but I know what I. I think this is gonna, first of all, you know, Bourdain is everywhere now. He is just, he has blitzed the media, he's got his own show on the travel channel. He is a guest on everybody else's show. He's great. He is everywhere. And you know, he's just, he. He, he refuses to be part of the establishment. Mm-hmm. And, you know, when he wrote, wrote his first book, kitchen Confidential, you just knew that he was, gonna say what he thought, and I don't always agree with what he thinks. Don't, don't take that the wrong way. But he's always gonna tell you what he thinks. He's totally irreverent and just has, has no concern over is this, uh, what the establishment leaves or not.

Francis 3:08

I have to say, one of the other awards that they've come up is the Golden Clog Awards. Mm-hmm. Is what these are called. Michelin has come out with its 2008 guide. Now, the Michelin guide was always the, the, the guide for Europe, the Michelin guide rates on a, on a different system than most rating systems. Um. Uh, three stars is the most you can get. Two Stars is a very prestigious restaurant. One Star is a, is an extremely prestigious restaurant, and most, and to even be included in the Michelin Guide is a, is a mark of respect as a restaurant. So it's, it's a different thing.

mark 3:36

You know, there's something that I wanna talk about as the, as the Michelin guide has, has reappeared for 2008, one of the Michelin three Star, which is the highest. Star rating you can get from Michelin no longer exists.

Francis 3:49

Elain class at the Essex House, uh, has closed since last year. It was, it was the highest rated you could be.

mark 3:54

I, I think one of the things that gets forgotten a lot in all of this grandeur of, of great restaurants is how expensive it is. To run a great restaurant and the greater the restaurant generally the more expensive it is to

Francis 4:10

run and the more risk you take the, you know, it's funny, we, uh, we've talked about, I mean, I like to go to these places once in a while and it certainly is once in a while, but, you know, uh, we got some emails I had mentioned recently that I had, uh, lunch at Pierre Re, which is three star Michelin, three star restaurant in, uh, France. Um. And lunch was close to a thousand bucks and probably 250 bucks of that was wine, but, but 600 bucks of it was food. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and you think, and you know, you would look at maybe a, a similar bill at Elaine dcos? Sure. Maybe a little bit less in America.'cause the American restaurants are, are a little less expensive. Um. And, and you'd think, well, how could a restaurant that's, you know, fairly busy and charges, you know, for dinner for two, there's gotta run you five, 600 bucks at least. Um, and when you figure, you know, wine people go there, I mean seven, 800 bucks for dinner for two, how could a restaurant like that go outta business and you think, oh, they're getting rich, they're ripping me off. You know what? There's money to be made in the restaurant business. There's more money to be made at owning a McDonald's than there is at owning a place.

mark 5:07

The other thing is you need, it takes a concerted effort from a group, not a single person, from a group of super talented people to keep a place like that going. Running and, and being at that level. There's, there, you can't leave that alone for 15 minutes.

Francis 5:26

Right. Well, and, and, uh, you know, your waiters need to make a hundred thousand dollars'cause you need the best waiters in the world. And I'll tell you that what's happening in Europe is there are a number of restaurants who've decided to lose a star. Mm-hmm. Or decided not to pursue events next, who

mark 5:39

happens all the time,

Francis 5:39

who decided not to pursue the next star.'cause they say, you know what, I can make money as a one star restaurant.

mark 5:44

I, it's true. I've spoken to several people who own one star Michelin restaurants and. Invariably they say, not invariably, but for, for the most part, they're saying, no, I'm never going for two stars, because I don't wanna put the investment into my restaurant that I, that I'll never get back.

Francis 6:01

Well, and in the, in the three star restaurants, it's even more so. Mm-hmm. And what the three star Michelin restaurants have to do is they have to, you know, that can be a launching pad to get your book sold, get on television, have you cook, wear done, and do all that other stuff. But the reason that the Michelin three star chefs have to do that is because Michelin three star restaurants, it's tough. To make money and, and some of them do. And sort of at that level, when you do, you can make it some pretty good money. But the investment that you need to put up front to make tremend, that money is tremend incredible, tremendous and risk. And you can lose your shirt mighty quick. And let's not

mark 6:30

forget the, the most expensive thing of everything. Time.

Francis 6:35

Yeah.

mark 6:35

You've gotta, you've gotta have very talented people invest a ton of time.

Francis 6:38

Speaking of which, we're out of time. We need to take a short break. We'll be back in just a moment. You're listening to the restaurant guys. And we welcome today Chef Maru Tara. He's the chef and owner of Farrah Olivia Restaurant in Alexandria, Virginia. And he has also recently appeared on the next Iron Chef, the Television Food Network's Reality Competition Show. Uh, and he joins us here today to, to talk about his experiences, uh, on that show.

mark 7:01

Chef Maru, welcome to the show.

Morou 7:03

Oh, thank you for having me.

Francis 7:04

It's, it's our pleasure. It was a pleasure to watch you on the show. The next Iron Chef. For those in our audience who don't know what the premise of the show is, it, it's not Top Chef, we're not talking about taking people who haven't yet made a name for themselves and, and, and, uh, launching them to stardom. Uh, chef Wood Tara is an accomplished chef. He owns his own restaurant. He is in the spotlight already. This is a, show that is, is deciding. Based on the competition, who will join the ranks of, of the Iron Chefs on television. So all the folks, who are invited to participate already are accomplished chefs, uh, chef Maru. What was it like for you in that position? competing for a title with, with other great chefs, it's a very different thing than the other TV reality shows that are on the air.

Morou 7:48

Well, it it is very, very different and, and the good part about it. Is that it's easier at that point because of the fact that if you go home, it's still good because the other chefs are, are very, very good chefs.

Francis 7:59

Right.

Morou 8:00

You know what I mean?

Francis 8:00

Right, right, right.

Morou 8:01

You're not competing about housewives and, people who can cook. You know, you're competing against professional. Chefs who are very successful in the business.

Francis 8:10

Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. One, one of the things you said, we've had a couple of the other contestants on, and while you were eliminated from the cont uh, from that particular competition, you know, the, the real competition is every day running a restaurant. Well, which, you know, and, and having your own restaurant and preserving and maintaining and increasing your own reputation, which of course you do that is, has nothing to do with the reality show. This is one episode of your life, you know, not, it's not, it's not a make or break kind of a thing.

Morou 8:34

Well, but you don't, you don't, um, you don't cook in front of, uh, millions of people.

Speaker 2 8:39

That's

Morou 8:39

true.

Gavin 8:39

Millions

Morou 8:39

of people who watch that show. So, you know, it's kind of, um. You know, you, you have to, the first thing you have to do is try to show what you are about. You know what I mean? Don't think about the competition. Every, every chef there is. Great. So show your art, show your your personality through your food. And that's what I, what I did. Your other didn't matter to me as much at all.

Francis 8:59

Well, you know, the funny thing is about, you know, the power of television. You got to show, uh, your art and your philosophy, uh, to millions of people and whether or not the, the judges showed how, how you did in that competition or how, regardless of how you felt, you, you did in that competition, which is a somewhat unreal example of. It's, it's not exactly relevant to what happens every day in life and in cooking and in restaurants. Um, but you know, I, I can't imagine that, that that wasn't great for you to be on that show. I mean, when we called you, I understand you just got off a television interview to come talk with us on the radio. I'd imagine you're having a busy couple of days, at the very least. So was it a good thing in that perspective?

Morou 11:03

It's a great thing. Uh, a restaurant like mine, we, we are very small, so we don't have the, the means for that kind of, uh, pr you know, this is national PR that can bring that the next Iron Chef show can bring you. And, and also, you know, competing against talented chef shows, uh, the nation who you are. You know, it's a great thing, um, an amazing thing that, we participate in.

mark 11:28

Well, I, I love that they're bringing people from all over the country in as well. You know, a lot of us here, we're in New Jersey, so we know a lot about the New York and New Jersey chefs, and maybe we know a little bit less about the DC Chefs and even less about chefs from Texas or San Diego or other parts of the world that I think that, that one of the things the show is, Showing us is that there are really terrific chefs throughout the country Now. It's not, it's not all centric in San Francisco and New York City like it was at one time.

Morou 11:58

No, it's not. And, and that's a good thing that the show did, you know, they're picked right. You know, you got each chef from all over the country and, and all these chefs actually are, are winners in their, in their state. Mm-hmm. You know, they, they all very successful in their state. So that, that, you know, it's. Food Network did an amazing job doing that.

Francis 12:18

Now, your restaurant and your background, you were at Red Sage, uh, which was the, the famous Southwest restaurant. And under your tutelage when you become executive chef, uh, it became a contemporary American restaurant. You were then at Signatures, which was Jack Aber MO'S restaurant. Um, poor Choice of Partner, but great restaurant while I was there. Um, and uh, now you have your own place far. Olivia, why don't you tell us a little bit about Far Olivia, and what's your cooking today when it's not in competition?

Morou 12:43

Well, I, I, uh, you know, at threat safety was different, you know, the philosophy was there. So I had to kind of follow what was designed prior to my arrival. And after that, I changed it to American, which, you know, doesn't fit completely with the concept, the design of the, uh, the concept. And then when I went, I went to signatures. That was a totally different thing. It was very political. Obviously, what I, what I learned over there is that. Politics are, uh, stronger than, uh, I guess food.

Speaker 2 13:11

Yes. Yes.

Morou 13:12

So that closed us, uh, you know, and when I moved to Foli, I finally had a canvas I can draw on. I can do anything I want. That's my restaurant. I make the decision. So what we decided to do at this point is to show a different way of looking at American cuisine, you know, the ethnicity of America at this point. So we do creative American cuisine. But we use a lot of international spices and, uh, most of those spices come from West Africa, ivory Coast, where I'm from. You know, we infuse that into American, everyday American cuisine. So we, we give a very different flair and very different accents and, and flavor into our cuisine. Which I couldn't do on Iron Chef because those ingredients were not there.

mark 14:01

Sure. We gotta see a little bit of it, but, but you could tell that your, your particular cuisine was held back, which is I think one of the things that, that might have been, uh, I've talked to a couple other people and, and, you know, each person's been eliminated, I think, because maybe they weren't allowed to do exactly the, the thing that they would do best, given a, a normal situation. So, Maru, we were talking before the break about. You know, how you were eliminated on, on the next Iron Chef basically one of the things you said is, you know, it was important to me to stay true to myself. do you feel that you were able to stay true to yourself and do you think it was a mistake or, or would you do the same thing over again?

Morou 14:35

I would do the same thing all over again. I don't, I don't think that the judges understood my food. They kept saying, you put too many things on the plate. I don't, when you look at my plate. You have four things. Usually you have a protein, a starch, a vegetable, and the sauce. So that, you know, and I put it in a, in a way, uh, the way that I like to eat. I like to taste every single ingredient. See exactly where to stand. You know, check, check out the flavors first before I start combining everything I don't like my foot pile on the top of each other. That's me. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I think they should look at it that way. And, and, and, you know. It's not about the flavor. So I'm glad that I was, uh, eliminated on something that

mark 15:17

Sure.

Morou 15:17

Kind of, uh, concealing.

mark 15:19

Sure. It seemed, it seemed that the, the judges were trying to impose their will on you a little bit and, and kind of force you into a certain style that might not have been your own.

Morou 15:27

Exactly. And, and you can't, I tell you, you cannot follow, uh, anybody else's dream and succeed at it. You know what I mean? Your dream is the only thing you can follow and understand so you can be successful. So I'm not cooking to please them. I'm cooking to please. Myself and the people who eat every day in my restaurant, and that's what I do. And that's what, what they enjoy.

Francis 15:47

You know, it, it's interesting, especially when you talk about your particular take on cuisine. Um, you know, I think that any show like this is limited in, in what it can demonstrate because it, it's not related to reality because that's not how you cook every day. You know? And, and the things that you cook with, if, if you had the other Iron Chefs have to cook with those. for the majority of what they have to cook. Sure. They, they would not

mark 16:10

do as well if we laid out a bunch of African spices. I'm sure you would've crushed the competition.

Morou 16:14

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's the most difficult part. You know, our everyday lives are not there. There's not too many, what I call the unknown factors in the kitchen.

Francis 16:24

Mm-hmm.

Morou 16:24

You know, you know your surrounding, you, you have your spices you use every day around you. I mean the show is, is very different.

Francis 16:31

I think the goal of Rest of the Great Rest Tour is to, to have as few unknowns as possible in an unknown world. Hey, we need to leave it there. Maru, thanks for coming on the show with us.

Morou 16:39

It's my pleasure.

mark 16:40

Sure. Thanks very much.

Francis 16:41

We'll be back after the break with more folks and more talk about Iron Chef America today we're pleased to welcome Chef Gavin Cason to the show. He's been named one of Food and Wine Magazine's Best New Chefs. In 2007, his California influenced French cuisine, has made Eliz Cocho one of the top rated restaurants in the San Diego area. And he's here today to discuss his time spent most recently on the Food Network's Reality Competition Show. The next Iron Chef.

mark 17:07

Hey Gavin, welcome to the show.

Gavin 17:08

Thanks guys. Good to be here.

mark 17:09

So Gavin, you were, uh, one of the youngest guys out there to, uh, on this particular show, weren't you?

Gavin 17:14

Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

mark 17:15

when you're talking about iron chefing. Uh, I, I think it's, you're at a real disadvantage actually being a younger guy just because of, fewer life experiences. Yeah. Uh, did you find that, did you find that it, that it was tough competing?

Gavin 17:26

You know, I found it to be both an advantage and a disadvantage. A disadvantage in the sense that, you know, you're younger, you've got a little bit less experience as far as what you've seen, you know, I mean, I've been in, I've been in kitchen since I was 15, but with that being said. You know, uh, uh, most of my life, except for the last three years or four years of being the chef, I've, I've been saying yes to another chef. So I've been doing somebody else's food. Mm-hmm. Um, and had less time to express my own personality in the cuisine. So in that respect, it's a disadvantage. I found it to be an extreme advantage though, when we would go into challenges because people wouldn't really worry about me, and then all of a sudden I would do food and then they would say, okay. This gets serious now. Sure. You know, so, so I found that to be the, a advantage part.

mark 18:07

Plus you're up on all the new things like, uh, well, podcasting through iTunes and things like that, so

Gavin 18:12

Exactly,

mark 18:13

so, so that some of the older chefs might not have been as quite as familiar with

Gavin 18:17

Yeah, they were, they were playing with the old school Nintendo. Now, while I had the, the play, the portable PlayStation.

mark 18:22

You're, you're a PlayStation three guy. Huh?

Francis 18:24

I think, I think it's interesting. One of the things we've talked about with a number of folks who've been on this show is, you know, one of our favorite shows is Top Chefs. Uh, uh, uh, and one of our least favorite shows is What's the Gordon Ramsey Scream Festival again? Hell's Kitchen. Hell's Kitchen? Hell's Kitchen,

Gavin 18:37

yeah.

Francis 18:37

Um, but in both of those shows, one a good example of, of a show and one, a bad example of a show. Those are. You know, young, up and comers, everyone on this show, uh, is an established chef. Well,

mark 18:48

I'm sorry, young up and comers or housewives,

Francis 18:49

remember. Right, right. Exactly. Right, right. Uh, or just, just fodder to scream at. Um, but everyone on this show, I mean, these people, you're all serious chefs. You are in some pretty, pretty heavy duty company out

mark 19:00

there. Yeah. We keep using the word accomplished, and, and that's, I think, the best way to describe the, the, the caliber of the competition year.

Francis 19:06

And what

Gavin 19:06

was it, what was it like? If you look at Tracy Deja, I mean, you know, she's got three restaurants in San Francisco, probably one of the most. Accomplished female chefs in, in, in this country,

Morou 19:16

ever.

Gavin 19:16

Mm-hmm. Really? I mean, what she's accomplished is, is absolutely amazing. I mean, it was just an honor to, to have met her and, and now to be able to call her a friend is even better. You know, I mean, John, be Michael Simon. I mean these, these are all of these an amazing ability to not only cook, but also have a business sense as far as. In the restaurant industry. I mean, I found it to be quite an honor and quite exciting to just meet with them. And we had a lot of time in between takes, you know, so we had some time to kind of hang out and just chat in the green room and, I think that was some of the best time, right there was, was all the fun that we had back there. If they would've put a camera and a mic on us back there, you would've seen a completely different show.'cause we were having a good time.

mark 19:54

You know, I, I think people don't realize it. And France and I have been in the industry for, you know, 20 years now and, and, uh, you know, have a lot of friends in the industry and we are, you know, where do I get most of my information about what's going on and, and. It, it's from talking to other people in the industry and bouncing ideas off of one another. And, and that kind of commiserating about, you know, the day's events. That's a, that's a very important part of, what we do is the relationships.

Gavin 20:21

Absolutely. It's that network, that networking and that constant. You know, uh, resource that we can always go back to and say, all right, you know, you've got four restaurants. How did you start'em? Or, you know, and just learning about it.

Francis 20:32

Yeah. I've got two. I wanna give one of'em back. Yeah. Um, you know, it's funny though. I, I think that one of the things that's interesting about this show is. The level of professionalism among everybody on it is very high. Mm-hmm. Uh, and the level of drama is very low. And some of that is due to the, the idea that, well, you know, not winning this competition is not a make or break to anybody on the show. Of course, winning it, it'd be great, but it's not really a make or

mark 20:58

break. Right. As opposed to, you know, you take Top Chef and the person who wins that is, you know, kind of got a career for themselves.

Francis 21:02

Right. Catapulted 10 years ahead in their career.

mark 21:04

And if you got eliminated in the first show, well it doesn't really do anything.

Gavin 21:08

Right.

Francis 21:08

Whereas this is a whole different thing, you know, but what you talk about is the, is the comradery. And I think it, it is evident that the, in the way that people, um, have respect for each other on the show for the most part.

Gavin 21:19

I agree.

Francis 21:20

Do you think, and

Gavin 21:20

you know that that's a nice part of it.

Francis 21:21

Do you think that, um, do. Don't you think that restaurant people are a little bit crazy or a little bit different than, than than others?

Gavin 21:28

No question. Otherwise we wouldn't coop ourselves in a kitchen or a restaurant for our whole life. I know.

Morou 21:32

You

Gavin 21:32

getting crazy. I mean, that's, that's the, that's the joy of it. You know, it's the one part of the world that always accepts whoever comes in. Yeah.

Francis 21:40

But then sometimes it beats the tar out of them until they do it. Right.

Gavin 21:43

Well, that's no matter what, but that's gotta be, that's, that's because it has to be. Right. That's gotta be perfect. And we get, we get away with it.

Francis 21:50

Well now, but I wanna ask you, um, going into a, a reality show like this, as an accomplished chef. How relevant, let's talk about television, reality TV programs. Let's talk about celebrity chef them overall. But let's talk about the, the iron competition itself. How relevant is it to, um, you know, being a great chef?

Gavin 22:12

Well, I mean, I, you know, the biggest reason why I did this competition was because I found it to be an incredible opportunity to once again, challenge myself and my

Morou 22:21

skills.

Gavin 22:22

Um, the only difference was, is I was put in front of a national television. You know, and, and I mean that you're gonna get scrutinized one way or the other because people are gonna have their opinions off of what they see and how the show is cut and edited. Mm-hmm. And you just have to be okay with that. And you just kind of have to get over that. And I think what makes, what's made the experience of the show so great is knowing the camaraderie between all the chefs. I mean, it's kind of funny watching the show on Sunday night. I probably spend most of the time watching the show, texting back and forth, all the other chefs. Laughing with everybody saying, why did you see how they cut that? It looks like I'm really upset with you. Or, you know, things like that. I mean, it, it's just funny how we see it because we go through the whole day and then we finally see how it's cut a couple months later and it, I think that they've done a tremendous job. The food network's done a great job in, in editing the show to making it look like there is that comradery and there is that, that sense of professionalism because the reality is the biggest difference between this show and top Chef. One very simple thing. When you win Top Chef, you win Top Chef, you get the a hundred grand, blah, blah, blah. Right? You get all that and then you walk away with it. Mm-hmm. If you win Iron Chef, you still have to go back on that food network week after week, and you have to compete against chefs. And it's not like, it's not like it's over. You know? You don't win. And that's it.

Francis 23:38

So I have a question for you. Is there a little part of you that's glad you didn't win?

Gavin 23:44

Uh, yes and no. I mean, this of course not in, in that respect. I mean, of course I wanted to win. I think that this is just one of those things that's just gonna help, help my career go, you know, and, and move forward. So. And it was a fun experience. I can't take it away from anybody.

Francis 23:59

Yeah. But I think that if you had gone on and won it, and then, and then you realize, okay, I won. Now I've gotta come back here every week.

mark 24:05

Every week I

Francis 24:05

gotta be on

24:06

iron

mark 24:06

show. You

Francis 24:06

might say, wait a second, what did I do?

Gavin 24:08

Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be like, oh no,

Francis 24:10

there might be a little buyer's remorse for the winner.

mark 24:13

Let's talk a little bit about this show, the, the third show that you were just on

Gavin 24:16

Uhhuh.

mark 24:17

Um, early in the show. I and I, and I think that, you know, it's, they have the great, the, the people filming the show have the great. Opportunity of hindsight and to put in whatever they feel like. But early in the show, one of the things that, that they catch you saying is, well, the worst, you know, I understand that we won't have a regular kitchen to, to work in, but the worst thing will be if I have to start my own fire. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're cooking on a grill and you have to start your own fire. No, it's crazy. Uh, there's a little bit of irony there for sure.

Francis 24:42

That's what they call a psychic hit.

mark 24:44

And at first, I have to say at my first inclination was. You know, that's really mean to give these guys a, a grill that they have to start, that's part of their time limit. You know, that's, that's really mean. But then I realized that of course, since I have a Woodburn grill in my restaurant

Gavin 25:00

mm-hmm.

mark 25:00

With no gas, that's not gas assisted, that's just a plain old box that we've

Francis 25:04

fire keeping very important.

mark 25:06

Then I realized, oh yeah, I do that to my guys every day.

Gavin 25:09

Yeah, that's true. They, they better learn how to do it. Yeah, no, it was crazy.

Francis 25:14

One of the things I wanna talk about, I wanna take a, a quick break, but I want to talk about editing. You brought it up before and, uh, we, we've talked to a number of people from a number of different shows in a number of different formats, and it's sort of like, you know, what Stalin said about, about winning an election? Mm-hmm. I, I don't need to control the people who vote. I need to control the people who count the votes. Right. You know, that's sort of like what editing is about. I don't need to control what happens. I need to control what happens in the, in the editing room.

Gavin 25:36

Right,

Francis 25:37

right. And I wanna talk to you about your view of editing there. You seem to think that, that the editing is very fair on this show, but I wanna talk more about television chefs and the, and, and the role of celebrity chefs from overall in, when, when we come back in just a moment. Our guest is, uh, chef Gavin Cason of I Cocho Restaurant in San Diego. He was most recently on the next Iron Chef, and we'll be back in just a moment. We wanna talk about editing. the editing in the, in the show, you feel really captured the true spirit of camaraderie that was on the show. Mm-hmm. I would've been afraid of editing, and the thing that really, really would struck fear into me with editing is Rocco topis experience. Mm-hmm. I'm a, I'm a big fan of Rocco as a person and as a chef. but one of the reasons I think it was so bad was because I think those editors were out to make the best tv, regardless of what it did to the chef and I, there was editing done in that show. That simply led you to believe that stuff happened in an order that it didn't happen, or things happened right next to each other that happened, you know, a week apart. Right. Um, that, that portrayed Rocco unfairly in a negative light. I mean, was there any, were there any questionable editing decisions? And did, did you see any of that? Overall, either in, in this show or, in other food shows that we all watch on tv?

Gavin 26:43

Uh, you know, in this show I haven't really seen much of that, to be honest with you. I mean, a lot of the stuff that happened was really in sequence. The only, the only editing that they, that they will add every once in a while, which is, which truthfully, we don't even remember. Like, I'll watch it and I'll think, God, I don't even remember saying that.

Morou 26:58

Mm-hmm.

Gavin 26:58

You know, because it's like you get interviewed so many times in a day. And that's, you know, that's the difference. But see, I don't know. I think they're, they're doing a good job with this editing. I mean, they're, they're being smart about, um, keeping it about the food, because like I said, the chef that wins is gotta, it's about his food. It has nothing to do with him as a personality. Zero. You know, and, and that's the thing. It's gotta be about that food. And, and so I enjoy that they're, that they're being very serious about that. But there are other shows out there. I mean, I had a friend, Brian Malarkey, who was on Top Chef. And, and, uh, I mean, there's other shows out there that sometimes it's hard, the editing, you just can't help it, you know?

mark 27:35

You know, I have,

Gavin 27:35

that's what it's,

mark 27:36

I have to say Gavin, uh, I, anytime that I find myself saying, I don't remember saying that and somebody's telling me that. It's usually my wife.

Gavin 27:44

Yeah, exactly. I

mark 27:45

don't remember saying that.

Gavin 27:47

Yeah. Well you did. That's pretty much for me too, except this time, this is my only other excuse.

Francis 27:51

Well, let's, let's talk about, uh, ELBs Cocho, which is, you know, the reality, not the reality show, but the reality. Reality, what you do every day. Yep. Talk to us about the kind of food you cook out there when, when no one's giving you a basket of ingredients and telling you to light a fire in the middle of a

mark 28:04

field. I'm sorry, when nobody's. Forcing you to have a basket ingredients that somebody else picked

Francis 28:08

for you. Like say you were a chef and could order whatever ingredients you want. What, what, what kind of food are you cooking and what's your mission with food out at El Scocia?

Gavin 28:15

Yeah, exactly. Not no frog leg in raspberry coming. Yeah,

mark 28:18

exactly.

Gavin 28:19

Um, no, El Bizz is, uh, you know, it's located at the ranch of and up here in San Diego and it's, you know, it's a great restaurant. It's, um, we do, we do what we kind of call fanatically seasonal French fare. it's very much, uh, rooted in, in a classical French techniques. Uh, but we utilize all of the amazing produce that we have around us in San Diego. Uh, and it's been, it's been an incredible experience. You know, I've been a chef there for three and a half years. We've had an incredible run. Uh, it's been a lot of fun changing the menu. We do a lot of tasting menus. For example, the other night we had, we had about a hundred Gaf a la carte, and, uh, 42 out of the a hundred people order what we call the chef collection menu. And that's a 10 course spontaneous menu, and we made it 11 courses for that night.

mark 29:04

That's great. You know, for whatever

Gavin 29:05

reason

mark 29:05

what, what that tells you is that people in your area are putting a lot of faith in you. Mm-hmm. Whenever somebody puts you in, in their hand. Absolutely. I'm puts themselves in your hands like that.

29:15

Absolutely.

Francis 29:16

And, and that area of California, while San Francisco was always known as a, as a food. Destination and LA is every two years either known as the best place for food, the up and coming place, or the failure of a place for food. San Diego was sort of never really, the San Diego area was never really seen as a, as a great place for food. And that's changing. You're part of the reason why, how is the change coming about? Um, is just the people are more aware. The chefs are finding it that for a long time it was like you'd go to San Diego and you'd say the weather is perfect. The food that's available is amazing and the restaurants are mediocre. Yeah. But now that's changing. Right.

Gavin 29:48

I think, you know what it is, truthfully, I think it's all of the, the, the, the group of chefs that are coming in. I mean, we've had, you know, guys like Trey Che and Bernard GIAs and chefs that have been here for, for quite some time. They've really kept everything alive. What's changed is the amount of young chefs that are coming back into this city now, and they're, they're understanding the importance of, uh. The produce around the city and, and how important it's for us to utilize that produce and, and the meat and the fish, et cetera, and make the restaurants great. And, you know, we're shying away from, from having to hire the surfers as waiters, which is a big difference. Mm-hmm. Completely honest with you. I mean, these guys, when I first came here, I moved here from London, England, I'll never forget it. I showed up to work. One of the guys showed up about 20 minutes late, and he told me the swell was good. And I'm like, the, what?

Francis 30:36

You know what's funny? It's, we, I was recently talking to a chef who was talking about, uh, New York waiters and we have some great waiters in, in New Brunswick. And, and we, we hire and we hire some good people and we, we tend to, because we're in a, in a city with a large university, we're able to hire a lot of people, uh, who are just getting into the business as busers, you know? And they worked for us for three or four years. And lo and behold, by the time they're a senior in college, they're, they have a, they're great waiters'cause we've trained them.

Gavin 30:59

Right.

Francis 31:00

Um, but in, so in New York, you though have the luxury of hiring great waiters. And this guy said, he said, yeah, New York, a lot of the waiters are actors, but there's such good actors that they act like pretty good waiters.

Gavin 31:10

Exactly. Uh, there's no surfing involved in the restaurant. Yeah. So when there's a swell, they're late. That's it.

Francis 31:16

Well, you sort of, but you know, wouldn't your customers understand that A little bit too in San Diego? A little less uptight out there from a customer perspective.

Gavin 31:22

You'd hope so, but it's no,

Francis 31:26

there is no silver lining. Hey, we'll be back in just a moment. Talking more with Gavin Cason most recently of uh, the next Iron Chef and available coach restaurant out in San Diego. You're listening to the restaurant guys, Gavin, I understand there's a, there's a, a big change coming up for you. There's a move in your very near future.

Gavin 32:10

There is a big change. You know, I've been, uh, I've been honored to, uh, to take over the reigns as executive chef of Cafe Boud. Uh, for Danielle Balu out in New York City on 76th and Madison. I'm heading out there. Uh, my start date's November 12th, but the, the current Shepherd Tran Chael will be there, uh, for a month during the transition. Then mid-December he will pass the torch over and, and I'll gladly accept it and, and go from there.

Francis 32:33

Okay. San San Diego to New York. You ready for the, you ready for the big change? The

mark 32:37

bright lights Big city as it

Francis 32:38

were.

Gavin 32:39

Really bright light's is, I was thinking more like snow and wind.

Francis 32:42

Well, bright light's, big city, small apartment.

Gavin 32:45

That's, yeah, exactly. There you go. Now you're talking. No, it'll be cool. You know, I mean, I think that's, it's an exciting time in my life to be able to do something like this and, and, uh, you know, chef Danielle and I have been friends for quite some time and he and I have always gone back and forth trying to figure out a way to, to work together. And, uh, the timing just kind of worked out with this. And, and, you know, I, I had actually secured the position before the show even came out, so. it was nice to know that, that he looked towards me for that.

mark 33:08

Well, it's definitely a great opportunity and a great restaurant, so absolutely. We'll be happy to have you on the East coast where we can eat your food.

Gavin 33:14

Definitely looking forward to it.

Francis 33:16

Yeah. And do you know what, I think what will be an interesting segment is we've talked a lot about being, uh, having a restaurant out in San Diego and your. There. I think that after you get settled in, maybe in January we can talk about coming in to head up an organization across country like that. San Diego's a very different city, culturally and culinarily than New York City.

Gavin 33:34

Yep.

Francis 33:34

Um, and will you come back on the show and talk about this on January about the, the change?

mark 33:37

Yeah, I'd

Gavin 33:37

be very,

mark 33:38

I'd be very love to, very curious to talk to you about the differences in culture in wait staff in cooks, you know, and, and what's available to you.

Gavin 33:46

Yeah, no, I'd love to. Absolutely. I. It's definitely gonna be a change. You know, I mean the, the, the luxury that we have down here in San Diego is the farmers. And I mean, I have a guy who literally, I write the menu and give it to him, and then he grows the produce. I mean, that's how hands on we are with it.

Francis 33:59

But you know what, it's, we do a similar thing up here. We meet with our farmers in January and February and plan out the year. It's, it's, it's just gotta be a little more, we don't have as, as long a growing season. Right. But it's cool to do up here as well.

mark 34:08

I think you'd be, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Speaker 34:10

There are, there are farmers in Jersey and an upstate New York who are doing

34:13

lot

Speaker 3 34:13

of stuff. Long Island, everywhere.

Speaker 4 34:14

Definitely. Yeah. No, I've, I've been doing a lot of research on it. It seems like a great place and to, to attack. It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm really excited about the,

Speaker 3 34:22

well, Gavin, we need to leave it there. Thanks for coming on the show. Gavin Cason, uh, soon to be cooking in New York. We'll put up information on having about our website. Hope you've enjoyed the hour with the restaurant. Guys. I'm Francis Shock.

Speaker 34:32

And I'm Mark Pascal.

Speaker 3 34:32

We are the restaurant guys.