Speaker 4 0:42

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, Mark and Francis. Our guest today is Erika Reynaud. She's an organic farmer and researcher. She's the research and farm manager for Seeds of Change, an organization dedicated to preserving biodiversity on the planet by seeking out and distributing traditional open-pollinated, organically grown heirloom and traditional vegetable, flower, and herb seeds. Now I sound like a real geek, but Erika, will you just explain to them that big introduction and what the heck is open-pollinated, organically grown heirloom stuff, and why is it important?

Speaker 5 1:15

Okay. Um, well, definitely the differentiation between heirloom and traditional is one of our, um, biggest questions. Uh, heirloom varieties are varieties that were brought over by new immigrants, um, most commonly at the turn of the century, and that they've brought over and saved and adapted to our local, agricultural and climatic areas in the United States.

Speaker 3 1:38

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 1:39

Traditional varieties, how that differentiates is those are preserved varieties of, uh, native peoples and traditional peoples of the Americas.

Speaker 3 1:47

Huh.

Speaker 5 1:48

And so that, in that regard, we, uh, consider ourselves keepers or preservers of biodiversity in that we're trying to keep, uh, really diverse varieties in the agricultural and gardening communities of North America.

Speaker 3 2:03

So I guess the, the big question I have for you, Erika, is why would the name of your organization then be called Seeds of Change, Isn't that what the way we farm in this, in the country and in the world now?

Speaker 5 2:14

Oh, well, that's a, that's a great statement. I would say maybe we're getting back to that, and we're recognizing that, but the reason why Seeds of Change originated in the first place, uh, in 1989, Seeds of Change was founded predominantly because since the late '60s and early '70s, the movement towards hybridization and chemical agriculture developed in the United States, and that led us away from preserving our varieties and preserving traditional varieties and orientated us more towards growing and producing varieties that you couldn't keep the seed of.

Speaker 3 2:49

Well, talk to us more about the, uh, chemical agriculture that you're talking

Speaker 4 2:51

about. Yeah, why would, why would we, why would we as a country want to go to a sort of farming that you can't keep the seed?

Speaker 5 2:57

Well, I think, uh, part of that was that you had issues, around lack of areas of arable land and producible land, and therefore there was an orientation towards trying to produce varieties that produced a higher yield-

Speaker 4 3:13

Uh-huh

Speaker 5 3:13

and had more disease resistance so that you could feed a larger population.

Speaker 4 3:18

that

Speaker 5 3:19

was beneficial in certain parts of the world. However, at the same time, aspects of really diverse agricultural and gardening systems that included considering, birds and insects and soil fertility became less prominent, and we focused more and more on yield and less and less on biodiversity.

Speaker 4 3:38

Well, and as we focus less and less on biodiversity, I mean, isn't it true that large corporations can make a lot more money using a mono culture and, and giving you seeds that... Now, I think one of the things that's changed is that we can patent seeds now, and that patent lasts, you know, of genetically modified seeds, for example, lasts through the generations. It's a patenting of the DNA. is, is that dangerous for our country that we see more, um, mono culture and, patented seeds?

Speaker 5 4:03

Well, I think definitely we're obviously seeing more and more of that at every level. We're even seeing that in open-pollinated seeds in university breeding programs. Um, and so therefore, that does limit our ability to save our own seed and regenerate our own seed and preserve our own, um, food systems. So I think that is part of the reason why Seeds of Change is orientating more towards, um, open-pollinated and diverse germplasm, because a lot of this is being lost- you- -and wrapped up in patents-

Speaker 4 4:32

Can you define what open-pollinated means?

Speaker 5 4:35

Well, open-pollinated is that you can... It's reproducible, that the, seed can be grown out, and if you allow for the appropriate isolation distance, depending on the species, you can then... It reproduces true to itself. So you can grow lettuce, collect the, let it go to seed, collect the seed, and plant it yourself the following year, and you'll get a true to type, um, a true to form variety. Rather than in a lot of the hybrid seeds, you can't do that because they've been crossed, um, with inbreds that-

Speaker 3 5:06

Mm-hmm

Speaker 5 5:07

do not necessarily allow that to be grown out and grown true to type.

Speaker 3 5:10

Well, there's, there's also, is there not a, a movement to, uh, from some of the larger corporations that, uh, obviously is not your corporation, but a movement to create sterile seeds, in, in essence, seeds that will only grow one time and that you can ne- will never reproduce?

Speaker 5 5:25

absolutely. Um, this is how companies are, preserving their intellectual property, and they're investing in breeding programs that, make sterile seed, and that's partially an intellectual property so that other companies don't steal their germplasm and call them as their own, but it's also to perpetuate their business model.

Speaker 4 5:44

Since the dawn of agriculture, which is the beginning of civilization, the way that human beings have grown their food is to, that any local farmer, no, you know, uh, forget about controlling the oil supply, um, no one controls the food supply. If you're a farmer and you, and you, uh, re- conserve your seed, you can plant again next year, and through hard work, you can make more food. Well, that dynamic is changing in America, ladies and gentlemen, and, and you may not realize it, but people are actually patenting the type of seeds, trying to make seeds that won't reproduce, and trying to patent some seeds that will, so that if, even if you use them, you're breaking the law and infringing upon their patent. That's a new thing that's going on with corporate agribusiness. They're trying, you're trying to concentrate in five or six companies, basically the genetic material of all the seeds for all the food in all the world. Does that sound scary to you? It sounds scary to me. Seeds of Change is working against that. They are at www.seedsofchange.com. Erika Arneault from that organization is our guest today, and we're gonna be talking more with her in just a moment. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, Our guest today is Erika Renaud. She's an organic farmer and researcher. She is with Seeds of Change. Seeds of Change, they distribute and seek out and keep alive biodiversity through keeping all sorts of open-pollinated, organically grown heirloom and traditional s- type of seeds. We use their seeds a lot with some of the farmers that we work with. Uh, there's a, sort of a gentleman farmer, a guy named Mike Baker, who's an attorney who wants to be a farmer, uh, and is now, he has a couple acres, uh, that he has locally, and he grows a lot of food in cooperation with us that we use in the restaurant Stage Left in Catherine-

Speaker 3 7:12

Talk about trading up in lifestyle and, and down in salary, huh? Yeah.

Speaker 4 7:17

Um, but we, he, we with Mike have, we meet with him, and I think you're seeing this a lot with restaurants, working with farmers from the beginning of the year, and we've, you know, I mean, we have 40 different t- types of products that we've gotten from y- from your seeds. Can you tell us how you work with farmers and restaurants?

Speaker 5 7:33

Well, Seeds of Change, it's one absolutely and totally in, um, integrous component of it is that we buy all of our seed directly from organic farmers in United States, and everything is produced directly by them. We don't license varieties or contract them from other companies. And we do that specifically because we can really control the quality of the seed, uh, from literally from seed to seed, and we can also then continue to support sustainable and organic agriculture at the small and mid scale. And we also have another program that we have a trialing program throughout the United States with organic farmers who sell directly to chefs, farmers markets, uh, wholesalers, and so forth. And we do that because we wanna get their feedback on our varieties, how they perform in the field, what their customers' reaction is to those varieties. And then we also have a program where we take chefs out to the farmers' farms to look at the varieties in the field, have taste testings, and have an interaction so that they can sort of talk to the farmer about what they're looking for for their markets, and then the farmer can talk to the chef about what some of the agricultural issues are with growing those crops.

Speaker 3 8:48

And that communication is so, so important between the, between the farmer and the chef so that they can provide the products that we're looking for, and at the same time, we can communicate to them what we need and how to get that to the table. Uh,

Speaker 4 9:00

a lot of restaurant professionals out there listening, if you wanna cut, if you wanna have a leg up on your competition, to get involved directly with the farmers is, is an incredible way to make, to enhance the quality of your food and get yourself some things that other people don't have, and at the same time, do a lot of good and make your customers happy. Hey, when we come back, we'll be talking more with Erika Renaud from Seeds of Change about how to get great food, start with great ingredients, and how to get those ingredients in just a moment. we were talking before the break, Erica, about how you work with farmers and restaurateurs that work together and how it's in all our interest to bring farmers a- and restaurateurs together. We, we have a couple of, uh, times that we've done over the years, um, where we've worked closely with farmers, both farmers who, who raise, uh, turkeys and farmers who raise tomatoes, where we've worked with the farmer. T- We talk with him in the beginning of the year, and let me tell you something, as a restaurateur, to sit down with your farmer in January and talk about what you're gonna plant that year, very often before the farmer then, so a lot of our farmers then go and order the, the seeds from Seeds of Change, uh, for this year and the next year. And you can do things as a restaurateur, like we use a lot of tomatoes. So now the, the difficult thing about buying from a local farmer is, well, you know, y- y- you only get tomatoes, you know, a month and a half a year. Mm-hmm. And then they all come in, and then you've got pounds of them, pounds and pounds of them. Well, we work with strawberries and with tomatoes with our farmers to, to plan the year. In many ca- in some cases, we've even said, "Listen, okay, we'll buy the produce of those 400 plants no matter what happens. We'll take, we'll shoulder some of the risk." Mm-hmm. "But you got to keep us informed." And so the farmers will say, "Listen, I think about two weeks, we're gonna get tomatoes. I think we're a week away. Okay, next Tuesday." And when the tomatoes come in, we'll get 700 pounds of tomatoes, 1,000 pounds of tomatoes, and we'll u- and there'll be tomatoes all over the menu.

Speaker 3 12:12

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 12:13

And then we'll also set up a production kitchen in the back, and we'll can and put up our tomatoes. We were serving, in January of this year, our tomato sauce in our Catherine Lombardi, our Italian restaurant, was made with Jersey tomatoes, and our costs were in line. The quality was better. And we got to tell our, um, our customers in January that these were Jersey tomatoes from Monroe Township, from, from Indyk Farms.

Speaker 3 12:37

But real- what really happened was our customers got to tell us.

Speaker 4 12:40

Yeah

Speaker 3 12:41

And that was, that was- Good, guys. I can imagine that was the big difference.

Speaker 5 12:43

I can imagine.

Speaker 4 12:44

So I mean, do you think that restaurants play a big role in, in preserving biodiversity and working with farmers like that? You seem to be putting some efforts toward that.

Speaker 5 12:51

Well, firstly, um, you deserve accolades for that effort that you're putting out because I think that that is a definitely an amazing model for other chefs and restaurants to be looking to, to really encourage the development of local food systems and honoring their farmers and genetic diversity in their communities.

Speaker 3 13:08

But we don't need accolades for that. The food's better because we do that.

Speaker 4 13:11

They can pay us in money.

Speaker 5 13:12

Well, that and your local food systems- Yes. Oh, nice are more sustainable because of it, and your customers are definitely getting better quality and more nutritious food.

Speaker 4 13:20

Um- Uh, and tastier. More tastier. And you know

Speaker 5 13:22

what? And,

Speaker 4 13:22

and you know what? Here's the thing, Erica, w- when we talk about what we've found as restaurateurs, and, our two restaurants, one is on the, you know, so the high and the middle, and the other one's on the high and the high, and as far as, far as, far as prices are concerned. Okay. Um, so we have a lot of freedom, and, um, I think one of the great paradigms is how do we get, um, uh, nutritious, good, whole local food to people who, who can't spend a lot of money? But, you know, if you can spend a, a little bit more or, or in some cases a lot more, you can really do a lot. And what we've found is if, if you take, and I say this all the time, if you take one person and you set them on a mission to find the most ecologically correct, sustainable, best for the planet, organically grown, um, stuff by a small farmer, and you get one That tomato is the said person A for. And you say, say, say to person B, "Okay, you go find the best tasting tomato we can have in here tonight," they're gonna wind up in the same place at the same farm 'cause it, it's best for the planet, and it's also the best to eat.

Speaker 3 14:19

Erica, what do you propose that, that, that people do? And I, and I'm kind of baiting you a little bit 'cause I know the answer to, to this question. But what do you propose that people do to get better food, and to grow things sustainably, to help the planet? What can, what can each of the people listening to the radio show do?

Speaker 4 14:36

Consumers.

Speaker 5 14:38

Well, they can garden.

Speaker 3 14:40

Yeah.

Speaker 5 14:40

Yeah. And growing your own food is the most enriching experience that you can have, I think, in that you're intimate with what you're growing. You see it from seed, um, to plate, and you can taste and experience that, that difference. I think, um, you have the wonderful experience of having people like you growing and producing and presenting foods in really interesting ways. But I think it's really valuable for people to have a food-growing experience.

Speaker 3 15:08

Well, I, I- And

Speaker 5 15:08

even if it's in a container garden- Mm-hmm or in a small community garden, um, that's really valuable.

Speaker 3 15:15

Well, it's valuable on a number of levels, too, because one of the reasons that I love... And, and though I have farmers all over the place planting things specifically for my needs, I always grow some of your tomatoes in my backyard, and I, I grow some, some green beans and a bunch of herbs and things like that. But one of the reasons I do that is to try and connect my kids to the food that they eat. And when they watch it grow from a seedling or a seed to, to a fruited plant and then eat the fruit, there's something very rewarding and very gratifying from that and very educational.

Speaker 5 15:48

Definitely.

Speaker 4 15:48

You know, and I live-

Speaker 5 15:49

And I think it's really valuable for, you know, people to be gardening with their children and having that experience because they'll grow up, and they'll be never not really ever knowing where something came from or what it looks like when it's a seedling versus a plant and when it's mature and when it's ready to pick. And, and- I think for children, that's particularly rewarding.

Speaker 4 16:08

We're

Speaker 3 16:08

cons- we're trying to, constantly trying to connect to the food, and, and that's the best, easiest, uh, most rewarding way, I think, to connect to our food.

Speaker 4 16:15

Well, and also, I live in an apartment in Jersey City, right? So the... I'm not planting tomatoes on my balcony. You know, it's, it's, it... That's not, that's not gonna work, especially with my lifestyle. But I do... I mean, you have some great varieties of basil, and, you know, you can grow some basil in your house. Mm-hmm. And you can grow herbs in a window box or even in a, in a box in your kitchen. And to have, you know, those fresh things to just be able to snip and throw in your sauce makes all the difference in the world. It really does. And one of the things that's very interesting, I think, is that what chefs, what the great chefs realize is they go back to the farm because different kinds... Like tomato sauce, well, what kind of tomatoes? Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, Craig Shelton owns The Island Inn here in Jersey, great restaurant, and I love going in his restaurant because he has an acre and a half kitchen garden, right? Is it an acre and a half? That what he... Something like that. And he has a full-time gardener. And in the, in the late summer, I, I remember he does the tomato tasting, and he'll plant seven different varieties of tomato, and then you'll get the tomato tasting that his line cook goes out and picks at 4:00 in the afternoon that you eat at 7 o'clock at night. And all the different tomatoes, they, they taste very different in and of themselves, and people don't realize that, you know, there is not a grape. There is not a tomato. There are different kinds of tomatoes, and when you go to your local farmers market or when you plant stuff in your backyard, I think it's... People find it super interesting to plant two different types of tomatoes or two different types of whatever it is that you're growing a-and it's, it's amazing. You don't have to touch it to get that diversity of flavor on the plate. And

Speaker 3 17:41

one of the great reasons to plant a couple of different kinds of tomatoes is just, not just for the different tastes, but they may arrive at different times. So you can extend your tomato season by having six, seven different types of tomato plants.

Speaker 4 17:53

Erica, do you fi-find that most of the people who buy your seeds are, are, are farmers? Are they home gardeners? Are they... Who, who's buying your seeds? Who's using them? What's the feedback you get?

Speaker 5 18:01

Well, it's, it's both, and then it's multiple tiers within that. Um, I guess we're predominantly a garden seed business. That's the bigger business. Um, and we've only been a small farmer to mid-size farmer seed business for four years And we find that more and more our-- the orientation of the garden seed business is more and more urban. And so this has been an interesting thing for us because we started as more of a homesteader, back to the land, alternative lifestyle, um, customer.

Speaker 4 18:31

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 18:31

And now we're orientated more and more and more to the urban customer, and our questions are more about, um, how to grow, beginner questions, and then a lot of questions around nutrition and organics. And the comments are o-often around the quality and flavor of heirloom varieties and organic produce.

Speaker 4 18:50

You know, in urban settings, people are, are turning more and more, and you read about this occasionally, and I always think it's great, and even a couple of restaurants in New York City have done this, to rooftop gardens. We actually explored the possibility with our new restaurant, 'cause we own the building. We have two stories and, and a restaurant on each floor.

Speaker 3 19:04

But we decided not to collapse our roof on top of our restaurant. The

Speaker 4 19:07

architect said, "No, you can't do that. Are you kidding?" Um, but if, if we had been able to- As long as you put

Speaker 5 19:11

everything along the joists and the beams.

Speaker 4 19:14

Yeah, no, w-we, we had a building that was built in 1925- And- Mm-hmm to support exactly the amount of weight it currently is carrying.

Speaker 3 19:19

They won't even let me go up there. The

Speaker 5 19:21

Swiss, the Swiss have a lot of new mediums for urban gardening because they have a policy in that country that for every square foot that you utilize on the ground, you have to recreate that garden space on the roof.

Speaker 4 19:33

Interesting. Oh, that's cool. That's really great. So they're the

Speaker 5 19:35

leaders in creating materials that are lightweight.

Speaker 4 19:38

Wow. Well, when we come back, we're gonna be talking more with Erica Reneau from Seeds of Change. You can find out more about Seeds of Change yourself and get your seeds for this summer at www.seedsofchange.com. We'll be back in just a moment. Our guest today is Erika Reynaud. A research and farm manager for Seeds of Change, and we're talking about how they're working to preserve biodiversity on the planet. You can too, and you should plant something at home, even if it's just some basil in your kitchen. You can get some great certified organic seeds at www.seedsofchange.com. Now, let's talk about organic seeds. Why is that important, Erika? And are, are all your seeds organic?

Speaker 5 20:09

All of our seeds are 100% organic, and we're the oldest all organic seed company in the United States, and with the most varieties available. And we started as an organic seed company because we felt that it resonated with the mission of preservation of biodiversity, was equally and, uh, as important as sustainable and organic agriculture. Traditionally, conventional seed is produced with, uh, in conventional agricultural systems. It's a highly, uh, chemical input system, and it's actually really quite harsh on the environment. And we felt that if you're going to have organic food and organic produce, that it needs to start with the seed. That your seed needs to be produced organically as well as the produce that you ultimately eat. It's a much more closed-loop system.

Speaker 4 20:57

How are traditional seeds produced that uses so much more energy and, and so much more, inorganic input?

Speaker 5 21:04

Well, traditionally- Let's

Speaker 3 21:05

not call it traditional. Let's call it something else.

Speaker 5 21:08

Okay, conventional seed?

Speaker 3 21:09

Yes. Yeah,

Speaker 4 21:10

yeah.

Speaker 5 21:10

Conventional seed is produced w- con- in a conventional way with synthetic fertilizers and pesticides and herbicides. Seed production requires a lot of herbicides because you really need to keep the weeds under control in order to not have weed seed in the seed material.

Speaker 2 21:27

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 21:28

And then a lot of fungicides are used because if you have any fungal pathogens in your seed crop, it can really, you know, it can move from s- seed to field, seed to field, seed to field, and you don't wanna have that. So we really focus on organic methods of fertilization and fungal control. So how-

Speaker 3 21:45

Well, how do you, how do you accomplish that without just kinda putting down the, the mainstream weed killers and get it done?

Speaker 4 21:51

Roundup.

Speaker 3 21:52

Yeah.

Speaker 5 21:52

Well, we c- we accomplish that through, uh, several different principles of sustainable agriculture. We practice crop rotation, a- which helps, uh, includes cover crops that smother weeds, and helps-

Speaker 3 22:03

So you don't just keep planting corn and corn and corn and corn and corn and corn until the ground actually dies?

Speaker 5 22:07

Right. We're trying to ensure that we put some fertility back into the soil. We don't use high-nitrogen feeders like corn over and over again. We, we, we incorporate veggies and bu- buck wheat and rye and so forth into our rotation. Uh, we also intercrop, um, so we plant some certain species that shade other species or may attract certain beneficials that help create a more diverse environment that helps control pests.

Speaker 3 22:34

So you're kinda doing it like the way we did it for thousands of years before-

Speaker 4 22:38

Yeah.

Speaker 3 22:38

Before-

Speaker 4 22:38

Do you guys remember your high school textbooks, and you read about feudalism and crop rotation and all that stuff? Well, you know, we can defeat that by dumping a lot of chemicals in a vineyard. We can defeat it all. I mean, but it comes down to this, and, and, this is really what it is. And, and I'm so glad you came on the show, Erica, because it, it, you know, it seems like this stuff is radical when this is not what's radical. This is traditional. This is historical. And th- th- this is the way it's meant to be. The, there's a new paradigm. You know, the old paradigm w- and that, that comes from Europe is man working with nature and maybe harnessing the forces of nature and, and, and riding them, whereas the, there's a new paradigm that came about in America post-World War II, which was man against nature, which is kill everything in the field- Mm-hmm make it absolutely sterile, and then grow one crop, a particularly flavorless tomato that we can ship across country and harvest green. And, and that's not... Do we call that conventional? But that's not traditional. Mm-hmm. This is traditional. This is the way man has been doing it for thousands of years. And I got one other myth to dispel. The, because the big corporate agribusiness companies will say, "We need to do it this way because the w- we're not gonna be able to feed the world unless we do." And that's a bunch of garbage, because the first genetically modified crops do not make higher yields. Mm-hmm. They're resistant to Roundup, that Monsanto can sell you, so they can sell you Roundup, which is a pesticide. this is the way to feed the planet, and to have a planet left to live on that we can eat in. And, and Seeds of Change, uh, is part of that, and it's not groundbreakingly radical. It is traditional. It's, it's the corporate agribusiness that's radical and dangerous.

Speaker 3 24:14

You know, and as, as long as we're way up here on this high horse, I might as well- It's

Speaker 4 24:17

amazing we have the horse in the studio

Speaker 3 24:18

Might as well jump on in. There are all kinds of things that are cropping up, okay? People are allergic to things that we never had these kinds of allergies before in Do we know what that's from? No, we don't know what it's from. But, uh, can I posit some observations and maybe make some guesses? Is it possible that it's coming from genetically modified organisms? Is it possible that it's coming from all the pesticides that we use in our, uh, in our food supply? Of course, these things are possible. But you know what the real answer is? We don't know, yet we just keep taking all these chances and, and doing all these things to ruin our planet.

Speaker 4 24:52

And you're in a situation where you don't know what your kids eat. Yes, you know it's an Oreo, but do you, can you read those ingredients? Do you know what those ingredients are? Read the back of a Pop-Tart box. Do you know what those ingredients are? How about we feed our kids, we stop worrying about diets, and feed our kids, like, you know, strawberries, apples, oranges, things, like, you can identify and you know where they come from. And you know where it comes from, from the seed, and you know what kind of farm it comes from. And I think that's part of what Seeds of Change is really a part of. I mean, do you agree, Erica?

Speaker 5 25:18

Well, definitely. I think we're really trying to reconnect back to the essence of, um, the earth and interacting with the earth, and I think that people really need to be conscious of what they're consuming, because everything that they're not conscious of, they have to be, to understand the interrelationship of that with the planet.

Speaker 4 25:36

And you know what? Somebody in a big corporation somewhere is trying to slip you something that's the cheapest thing he can slip you and get you to eat. And, and I, and that's not, and if you don't know what it is you're eating exactly, they can get away with a lot of stuff. Hey, Erica, you guys are doing great work, and I wanna thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker 5 25:48

Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 4 25:49

We're gonna li- we're gonna put a link up to Seeds of Change on our website, restaurantguysradio.com. And I understand you're coming to New Brunswick soon for a conference, and we hope to see you when you're here.

Speaker 5 25:58

We will definitely be there.

Speaker 4 25:59

Excellent. Thanks, Erica. All the best to you. We'll be back in just a moment. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, If you're a home gardener or you want to plant some stuff at home, they're an organic, uh, seed food shed, and they supply organic seeds. Very important. That's www.seedsofchange.com.

Mark 26:13

You know, one of the things I really like about the organization is they are dealing with the home gardener, the home farmer, the small farm, the, the tiny little farm, but they're also making, making inroads with some of these farms, which a few of them are changing the way they do things.

Speaker 3 26:30

that's happening because of demand. That's happening because when you go to the ShopRite, you go to that tiny little section in the center of the ShopRite that, if you notice, is bigger than it was a year ago- and it's bigger a year ago than it was two years ago.

Speaker 4 26:43

And when you go up to the manager of the store and you say, "Listen, I want organic milk. Mm-hmm. "I want, um, you know, I want orga- I want a better organic produce section. Why don't you have..." And, and you go to your supermarket and you say, "Listen, there's an organic farmers market right, right down the block- Right and that I'm gonna go and buy my produce in unless you get better organic produce," you know what's gonna happen? It's you that make the change. It's you that create the market for this because there are, there are barriers to entry because the supermarket- Mm-hmm manager, when they get approached by the organic farmer who shows up with, uh, you know, a half a truckload full of beautiful vegetables, says, "No, I'm not gonna deal with that. I'm not gonna change the way... You know, the stuff comes in on the truck and I just put it out and I'm..." And it's, there's an expense to him to changing the way he does business- And- to accommodate that organic farmer.

Speaker 3 27:23

And extra effort, and if that effort doesn't come with the, the fact that he's pleasing his customers-

Speaker 4 27:28

And if you go in and say, "Listen, I want this," to the store manager or you write to the customer service department or whoever and say, "Listen, I buy organic vegetables. I'm not buying the vegetables here. These aren't very good. You don't have a big enough section. I want more," guess what? Then they're more open to buying it, then the local farmers are gonna go over more and more to organics, and you, you will help break down those barriers to entry, and that's what you can do.

Speaker 3 27:50

And when the supermarkets offer those things and it's 10 cents more for the organic apples than the regular apples, buy the organic apples. It's better for you, better for the planet, and better for your kids.

Speaker 4 27:59

And they'll taste better, and that's what we're all about in the restaurant business. And hey, the one last thing we want to say on this is when you go to those, to restaurants and they're naming the farms that the produce is coming from and they're naming the farms that the quail, the Quigstown Quail Farm is where our quail comes from and the, and the restaurants are buying locally and going to that extra effort to do that and paying that extra money to do that, you need to let the restaurateurs know that, you're happy with that as well. Hey, I hope you've enjoyed the hour listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Shaw.

Speaker 3 28:21

And I'm Mark Pasco.

Speaker 4 28:22

We are The Restaurant Guys, Central Jersey