Speaker 2 1:02

Hey, everybody, welcome back. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, Mark and Francis of Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi Restaurants in downtown New Brunswick. You know, in 1992 in Los Angeles, as a response to the civil unrest, uh, Father Greg Boyle formed Homeboy Industries

Francis 1:15

To create businesses that provide training, work experience, and opportunity for rival gang members to work side by side, including the many ventures. We have Homeboy Bakery, and that's just the little sliver of relevance we need to get Father Boyle on our show.

Mark 1:30

Father Greg, welcome to the show.

Father Greg Boyle 1:32

I'm happy to be with you guys.

Francis 1:33

You know, this show is, is my opportunity to call anybody I ever want to talk to and get them to come and talk to us for a while. that's a great thing that you've done. You've got a bakery. Okay. I'm running a couple of restaurants here in New Jersey and, none of my, employees are former gang members, and I'm, I'm not in a very violent neighborhood, and I, I feel it's very difficult to keep it all together, you know, and to keep the wheels from coming off on a, on a day-to-day basis. Um, how is this working out for you?

Father Greg Boyle 1:59

Well, you know, I, I don't run either place, you know, they're connected, however, to our headquarters here. So, though I founded this thing, I have wonderful people run. The homegirl cafe, which is a 96 seat restaurant. And then, uh, the bakery. they constantly bring me little samples. Yesterday they, they had experimented on a, a pumpkin pie that was quite good. So the bakery did so, so, but good people run it. I'm the only one who hires folks, so I, around here it's like the United Nations of gangs, so it's enemies working side by side with each other. So that's another, uh, kind of wrinkle, if you will. Yeah,

Francis 2:37

that's actually, that's actually the, the main question that kept coming through my mind as I, as I've learned more about the operations you have going there, is you have rival gang members. Or former rival gang members working on, on a project together. I mean, how is that very difficult and what are the implications of that in, in a business day to today?

Father Greg Boyle 2:56

Well, you know, uh, this is like a gang rehab. So we're the largest gang rehab center in the United States. So we've got a thousand folks a month, uh, from nearly 600 different gangs.

Mark 3:06

You just said a thousand folks a month.

Father Greg Boyle 3:08

Yeah. So, um, it's a pretty daunting reality. But we have lots of services, free tattoo removal, huge counseling, mental health component, and,

3:19

and

Father Greg Boyle 3:19

we have job developers who try to find them jobs elsewhere. But of the 257 folks who work in all our businesses, they're from a wide, wide variety of. Gangs from all over LA County. So enemies have to work side by side with each other. So initially they'll always say, I'll work with 'em, but I'm not gonna talk to 'em. And.

Mark 3:37

how does that generally play out?

Father Greg Boyle 3:38

Well, it always plays out the exact same way, you know, uh, it used to bother me that when they said that initially, but then, you know, in no time at all, um, they become, uh, fast friends and, and a deeper union and bond is formed than anything they've ever known in their gang. 'cause you can't demonize people, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3:57

Mm-hmm.

Father Greg Boyle 3:57

And so, uh, it becomes a wonderful byproduct of offering, you know, the dignity of good work and a clean, honest paycheck. They also get to, uh, see the human face of people that used to shoot at and hate.

Francis 4:11

You know, I, I, I think that, uh, was interesting In all the, the ventures that you have there is, is tattoo removal. That's that. Why is that so important?

Father Greg Boyle 4:20

Well, you know, everything has evolved here over the years and it wasn't whole cloth, you know, we sort of began this way and then we'd add this and we'd add that as things presented themselves, you know, and, and, and one guy came once with his face covered with tattoos, his head shaved. With huge, huge blackened exquisitely done devil's horns on his forehead. He just got out of prison and he says, you know, I'm having a hard time finding a job. And I said, well, you know, maybe we could put our heads together on

Mark 4:49

this. So,

Father Greg Boyle 4:51

um,

Mark 4:51

see my reaction to that would've been, would've been, grow some hair. Let's cover

Father Greg Boyle 4:55

em up. Exactly. Well, except you, you can't really grow it too well on your forehead, so, um,

Mark 5:00

well, I can't, that's for sure.

Father Greg Boyle 5:02

And so, uh, I, I hired him and we started, uh, to get a doctor to donate some time and a dermatologist. And now we own, uh, three LA two laser machines. About to get a third. We have 10 volunteer doctors And so that just sort of was a need that presented itself in the same way that the mental health component presented itself in anger management classes and financial management, and.

Francis 5:26

do you find that there's something, I mean, I know that Homeboy Industries has, has a number of different ventures now, but you have the bakery in the cafe, from what I've read, are fairly central. I mean, is there something transformative about the act of like making food and cooking food and feeding people? Is that, is that particularly a transformative, uh, thing or is it just my crazy romantic notion?

Father Greg Boyle 5:44

No, I think it is. I, I think as you know, you feel it more in the bakery, in the sense that they, you know, they produce this product and, and there it is, you know, and people are buying it like crazy. Our, our biggest concern right now is not finding clients, but being able to be trained enough and efficient and fast. And, and maintaining the quality enough to be able to meet all the people who are falling over themselves to, to buy our bread. But it's very satisfying for these guys when you have different divisions, you know, uh, they do this kind of bread and these guys do the kind of the pastries and the desserts and the whatever. And, um, I'll tell you, I mean, the first month here has been. Them just parading their wares into my office, you know? And so,

Mark 6:31

so you're getting fatter. I understand exactly. I understand exactly what happens when they start to parade their wares in, in, of their cooking wares. we have the same issues,

Father Greg Boyle 6:41

but also, you know, in the, in the cafe, you know, it's, these aren't women who, who just don't know how to, haven't been trained to work in a restaurant. These are folks who have never been to a restaurant.

Mark 6:51

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Father Greg Boyle 6:51

And so they just don't have a kind of a sense of, uh, you know, I had one young lady walk by, noticed $3 left on a table, and she, she grabbed it and said, wow, I just found $3. I go,

Mark 7:03

somebody

Father Greg Boyle 7:03

else's tip, talk. They don't tip it jack in the box.

Francis 7:06

we're talking about the bakery in the cafe, and we're talking about people who've never worked in a restaurant before, and many people who've never been to a restaurant before and, teaching them a, a valuable skill and bringing them into a restaurant environment. Who does the teaching? How did this get started? who teaches them how to do these things?

Father Greg Boyle 7:22

Well, we've been around for a long time, so, you know, everything has sort of gone through lots of transition. But the bakery was initially right after the unrest in la and, uh, a guy across the street from the church was gonna sell his, uh, bakery. Uh, which had, uh, all the equipment and everything, and I went to a movie producer who wanted to help me and I said, well, just buy the bakery, we'll call it, I don't know, homeboy Bakery. And so then we, you know, frantically had to find somebody to, um, train and uh, to bake. And that operated for some time. And then in October of 99, it burned down. It was just a kind of an old, old 80-year-old building. And so there was an electrical. Fire. And so we've, we've gone through all sorts of changes and, and at the restaurant, a woman named Patricia Aste, who's, uh, kind of a genius, you know, in terms of food and, uh, new Latina cuisine is what you would call it. So it's very healthy, very fresh, but it's basically Mexican, but with the twist and, and sort of a real difference. So, but we're packed every day at lunch. I can't get in there right next door. Well,

Francis 8:29

um, I wanna talk more about what sort of happens as a result of this, because when we give these people this, the skills or you're helping to give these people the skills and, and build a, a successful enterprise, but I guess the purpose is to give them the skills to go on. Into the, into the world, out on their own.

10:12

And I wanna talk about maybe what some of your success stories might have been. Will you stick with us for a little while? Sure. Terrific We're talking today with Father Greg Boyle

Francis 10:19

He is from Los Angeles, where he's founded Homeboy Industries, which creates businesses providing training and working experience for, uh, former gang members in an effort at rehabilitation and reintegration into society. And, uh, they have ventures like Homeboy Bakery, uh, homegirl cafe, homeboy silkscreen, homeboy homegirl, merchandise homeboy, graffiti removal. I think that's great and ironic. homeboy Maintenance and Homeboy Landscaping, father Boyle. With all these things that you've started, I guess the goal is to have people work in your industries, in homeboy Industries for a while. Is it then to have them move on and be able to go out and, and, and find work in the larger workforce, or do people stay with you for a long, long time?

Father Greg Boyle 10:58

Well, it's both. And I mean, part of the thing is that this is the not ready for primetime player place. You know, folks who've been in prison a long stretch, those who've never had a job. you first teach the soft skills, you know, never missing, showing up on time, taking orders from disagreeable supervisors. We provide all that free of charge.

Mark 11:20

So do we.

Father Greg Boyle 11:21

Yeah. So once they learn that stuff, they kind of. You know, say, yeah, I think I'm ready to go on. So it's a little stop gap for most, you know, it's a taste of what's expected of you in the working world. And then ongoing education is always expected of each person here and getting more training. So it's, you know, like we have the silk screen, which is our biggest, most successful business. Well, we're not preparing them for those lucrative silk screening jobs out there. It's, we're really preparing them to, to work for a living and. Um, and that's kind of what we hope so some stay and, and perform lots of duties here, you know, especially kids who go homies who go and give talks all over the place and, and some become supervisors and, and run the place basically others are here for a time and then move on. But it's, it's absolutely essential to have a place that will hire you right away the minute you get out of prison.

Mark 12:16

now gang problems are, cropping up everywhere. I is your program something that you think can, can help or, or is it more geared at, let me help the individuals who wanna, who wanna leave that?

Father Greg Boyle 12:25

Yeah. I mean, every community has to do about 90 things that will be helpful in terms of, uh, eliminating this forever. And we're just one among 90. I think we're, we're an important piece. We're the intervention piece. So, uh, but our program is not for those who need help. Lots of kids need help. It's only for those who want it.

Francis 12:43

Mm-hmm.

Father Greg Boyle 12:43

So we don't coax the unwilling. We, we, uh, just wait until they're ready. Just like any kind of, uh, drug abuse or alcohol, uh, abuse. It takes what it takes, you know, they can hit bottom or not hit bottom. they have to walk in the door. And once they do, then that, we feel that's pretty significant.

Francis 13:01

What do you feel happens? I mean, it's, it, it's strikes me that, um. There's, there are people who sort of find themselves at a certain age, whether that's in their late teens or early twenties or mid twenties or late twenties, and is it that they just turn around and say, you know what? This is untenable. I don't want this. And, and they're looking and they're looking for a way out. What, what prompt, what gets someone to the point where they walk into your door?

Father Greg Boyle 13:23

Yeah. A lot of things, you know, it's hard to say sometimes the birth of the first kid, or if you've come out of prison, you say, boy, that was really unpleasant. I don't want to do that again. Well, whatever it is, you know, a relationship. But, but nobody's ever met a hopeful kid who joined a gang, and, and kids aren't seeking anything when they join one. They're always, they're always fleeing something. So the point is to, to kind of address the lethal absence of hope that's pervasive in a lot of our inner cities. So, you know, you want to get to that place where you're, um. Providing hope to young people for whom hope often is foreign.

Mark 14:01

Do the gangs themselves make it difficult for, for people to leave the gangs? Is is that an obstacle that you, you find?

Father Greg Boyle 14:07

No, I think that's sort of the myth is that, uh, you know, somehow they're gonna come looking for you and, and hurt you because you've walked away. But that's, I, I've been doing this for 20 years and I suspect I know more gang members than anybody on the planet, and I've. I've never seen that myself.

Mark 14:24

Well, for most people, you're in a gang. You only know the people in your gang. You get to know all the people in all the gangs.

Father Greg Boyle 14:29

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and, and again, it's, 95% of all gang members want what these folks have here, which is a second chance. And, and they want move on. They, you know, if, if you're a heroin addict and you bump into somebody who you used to get high with and they're now in recovery, you don't, um, you know, disparage that person's choice. You say, wow, good for you. Uh, I'm not ready yet, but Good for you. And, and the same thing happens among gangs.

Francis 14:54

You know, the thing about gangs from a lot of what you said Father Boyle, is that you're teaching these folks life skills. And, and I think that's, that's something that, you know, what I like about our industry in general about the restaurant industry is we take, you know, you don't need a college education to, to get into the business and you don't need a master's degree to succeed in it. Mm-hmm. Um, it's still a type of business that you can learn by apprenticeship and become quite successful by apprenticeship. Mm-hmm. Um. And you start with some of the basic skills of having a job, any job showing up on time, being polite to your boss, getting the job done, being able to communicate with your coworkers. But it seems, from everything I've read that that a lot of your folks then. Take it further for the first time and, and, you know, create a, a product like you talked about at the beginning of our discussion, uh, gang members bringing, or, or, or people that work in the industry bringing, um, uh, bringing the, the latest thing for you to check out and look out and add and sample and to have pride in their work. Is this the, the first time a lot of these people are able to have pride in something they create in, in a hard day's work?

Father Greg Boyle 15:56

Yeah. I mean, again, they have such a, a negative experience of, of, uh. In their own life. You know, again, it's not about good people or bad people. It's about, you know, how can we always move towards a compassion that can stand in awe at what the poor have to carry, rather than stand in judgment at how they carry it. So these are all folks who've had to carry a lot, a lot of stuff and, you know, come from backgrounds of not abuse, but torture and, and, um. You know, have had extremely difficult moments in their life, and obviously gang violence is how they've acted out all this self-destructive urge, you know, and so it's a, it's a lot to handle. And there's a lot of mental health services here too, because everybody here has been traumatized in, in kind of singular ways. So, um, it's not just a job you want to kind of infuse, uh. A sense of hope and the possibility of, of, of a future here. You know, folks have have been used to planning their funerals and not their futures, and so you wanna, um, supplant that with some other idea.

Francis 17:04

You know, I, I think it's sometimes when people look on, on, on folks who are less fortunate than, and even folks who are violent. And I, and I, I think there is no excuse for violence certainly, but. You know, I, I'll, I'll often hear people when they're not sympathetic, say something like, well, you know, why don't they just get a job? And there, there's so many things come into play and, and one of them is. Well, what, what job is available? Mm-hmm. And if there is a job available, even if it's a simple, you know, entry level McDonald's job. If, if you've never been taught how to sure have a job, if you've never, as a child, as a teenager, from your parents, from your family been taught you have to go to school on time, you have to get it done. You have to be, and you have to do these things that you don't want. And this is the way to success. This is the way to the end of the week, the end of the month. Um, you don't have the skills. and I think that's a really important thing that you are addressing.

Father Greg Boyle 17:53

Yeah, they're definitely behind the eight ball on all this, and, and you want to somehow, somehow make this, uh. You know, an easier transition for them. But you above all, you want to give 'em a reason to get up in the morning and a reason not to gang bang the night before. And, and, and we always say around here, nothing stops a, a bullet like a job. And, and so that's what we hope to accomplish here.

Francis 18:17

That that's tremendous. Hey, you, you can find out, uh, more about. Father Greg Boyle and, and Homeboy industries@homeboyindustries.org. And when we come back, um, we're gonna ask Father Boyle how, how maybe we can get involved and, and help out with this extremely worthwhile, extremely effective, uh, program out Los Angeles. But that's a, a model for a lot of communities. We hope we'll be back in just a moment. You're listening to the restaurant guys. Father, boy, the work you do is pretty amazing. How do, how do people help?

Father Greg Boyle 18:44

Uh, well, lots of ways. You know, we we're kind of a tiny drop in a fat bucket, so we, you know, how many homies can we hire in the end? You know, we're pretty limited. We find thousands of jobs. Uh, elsewhere. So I'm always encouraging the private sector to, nobody's asking you to transform, you know, your workforce into all gang members, but everybody could hire one person. It's a way of being attentive to, uh, folks who are released from prison. And, you know, we have the highest recidivism rate in this, in the country, in the state of California And that's because. You prepare them for nothing and nothing awaits them. So if, if employers or restaurants or anybody would be willing to, uh, free up a spot, it would, uh, be transformational.

Mark 19:27

I will, I will tell everybody, and this is a good opportunity to mention this here in the New Brunswick area, there's a, a soup kitchen called Elijah's Promise. and Elijah's Promise has, uh, in the last few years added a, cooking school. to their program. That's basically taking people with, with little or no skills and teaching them skills, that they can learn and take to other projects and other jobs at Elijah's Promise. And, and they offer, uh, some fairly talented people, new start and a set of skills and, and I think a lot of the New Brunswick restaurants are already taking advantage of it, but anybody who's not, you should consider it.

Francis 20:00

are there other communities across the country that you are corresponding with? you made a couple of parallels before Father Boyle, uh, with, with rehab, like drug rehab or alcohol rehab. What are the similarities and differences between those kinds of rehab and, and gang rehab?

Father Greg Boyle 20:15

I, I think it's, it's absolutely parallel. I mean, it's, it's addictive behavior. We have a a 12 step group here called Criminals and Gangs Anonymous, and it's, uh, it's a chance to, uh, talk about people's addiction to criminality and how they kind of gravitate always toward that kind of a high risk behavior. And, and so because their experiences, they, they, they go, well, it's not drugs and it's not alcohol. Yeah, it's, it's a lifestyle addiction and so they, um, and it's been quite helpful to the folks here, but, but principally, you know, we don't send folks out to kind of, uh, pull 'em in. Because no amount of us wanting that gang member to have a life is the same as that gang member wanting to have one. So he has to sort of come up with it and walk through our door. And once he does, we activate lots of services for him.

Francis 21:08

Well let, let's talk about it from the other side. I'd love to do some good, and I'd love to make a difference, but. I like most, employers, whether we stated or not, would have concerns about hiring a former gang member because that rate of recidivism is so high. How as an employer can I best protect myself and deal with this and still do some good. And do you have any words of advice For us to help.

Father Greg Boyle 21:28

Well, I mean, part of the thing, that's why we exist, you know, because we're a clearing house, you know, we won't, uh, send, uh, a homie who's not ready to get on with this life. So we, we kind of can pick and choose and say, well, yeah, this guy's ready, or somebody who's been here for several months. Yeah, we, he, he knows exactly. And, and he's a guy who we always say no hanging, banging, or slanging. So our expectation is that kids, these folks here aren't involved in any of that anymore.

Francis 21:56

Uh, father, father, father Boyle. Could you gonna have to define, hanging, banging and, and slanging

Mark 22:02

realize that most of our listeners don't have a huge amount of, uh, interaction with gang.

Francis 22:05

But, but I'm curious.

Father Greg Boyle 22:06

Yeah, hanging means kicking it with the homies. S slanging means selling drugs of any kind and gang banging is that activity ranging from riding on the walls to shooting at people and anything in between. I'm against all of those, so you have to leave all that stuff behind in order to work here. You get fired if any, if any of that rears its head.

Mark 22:23

So even we do the same thing. We, if any, if you do any of those

22:26

things,

Francis 22:26

any shooting is, you're not allowed back to be the pastry chef. Um, so, um, but, but, uh, the, but the, the que so if you, if someone you know, completely off work. Off time. You hear that last night they were out, you know, hanging and, uh,

Father Greg Boyle 22:40

yeah, if they work for me, then they're fired. that it's a little bit like, um, you know, if you run a DR drug rehab center or a re residential program, somebody's smoking crystal meth. You don't say, Hey, cut it out. You say you gotta leave.

Francis 22:55

I guess that's a bad

Father Greg Boyle 22:56

strategy because you're not ready. So when you're ready, come back. You know, it's still couched in really unconditional love. The day won't ever come when I stop helping these folks,

Mark 23:05

but it's a tough love.

Father Greg Boyle 23:06

The moment has come often where I have to say, but you can't work here right now 'cause you're gonna infect the place. Uh, I can't have you here, plus you endanger the place. If you're a hot item, somebody who's out there, then you attract, enemies coming here looking for you, and I can't afford that.

Mark 23:22

Does that, does that happen to people, fall out of the, out of the program and then get back in?

Father Greg Boyle 23:26

It's the same kind of, uh, sense of relapse that you would have in a drug rehab.

Mark 23:30

Mm-hmm.

Father Greg Boyle 23:31

You know, he breaks up with this lady and next thing you know, he's, he's out there again riding on the walls. And I go, Nope, I can't have it.

Francis 23:38

Well, you know, I think that you provide a, a great, valuable service because I would be very reticent to hire a gang member fresh outta prison and maybe. They figure out that they aren't gonna relapse with you for five or six months. and then I'm probably more willing to bring someone on board, absolute board, you know?

Mark 23:50

Absolutely. Very, very important work that you're doing.

Father Greg Boyle 23:53

Yeah. Well, thank you very much.

Francis 23:54

Well, the organization is, is Homeboy Industries. It's a fascinating story. There's a book out about Father Boyle, which we'll also put up on our website, and if you wanna check out them a little bit more and maybe even help them with their capital campaign, it's www.homeboyindustries.org. You can find it on our website.

Mark 24:10

Father Boyle, thanks so much for being on the show with us today.

Father Greg Boyle 24:12

Real pleasure.

Francis 24:13

Thank you. It's, it's super. And we didn't even talk very much about the food. It is supposed to be really great out there.

24:18

I wanted to ask Fa- or talk with Father Boyle about, uh, how great the food is. You know, he, he's doing such good work, and it's so important. we left out that this is a critically acclaimed

Francis 24:27

Bakery and, and homegirl cafe, which just opened is, doing very well.

Mark 24:31

Homegirl Cafe got a great review from the LA Times, although one thing that we have to mention is, you know, you'd be kind of a curmudgeon if you gave him a lousy review. Yeah, I

Francis 24:39

was gonna

Mark 24:39

say, it'd be, you know, this guy's doing some really special and important stuff and, uh, slam the food, slam the service.

Francis 24:46

Well, you know it, but the, the fact of the matter is though, I think they could have just written nothing,

Mark 24:50

Of course. And I think they would've just written nothing.

Francis 24:51

And, and the bakery is busy. Okay, now listen, you may go buy a cake once a year, you know, your thanksgiving pie because you're happy But

Mark 24:58

you're not gonna go back, keep going back to that bakery over and over and over again, unless it's really good.

Francis 25:02

And they can't keep up with it. And I was amazed with the numbers that Father Boyle was, was talking about a thousand people a month,

Mark 25:08

and he's got two former gang

Francis 25:09

members,

Mark 25:09

current employees running the show, doing the job, keeping it on the ground. Again, you can't maintain realize that unless you're actually rehabilitating. These gang members and actually giving them skills. his businesses wouldn't operate.

Francis 25:24

Right.

Mark 25:24

they would cease to operate. People will stop coming to your restaurant no matter how good the cause is. if you're not producing

Francis 25:31

I also wanna talk about, look, we always talk about where we think restaurants and food production and real food production, what these people are learning to be is in one sense or another, artisans in all the different industries that they have, artisans and craftsmen, and. There's something really transformative about taking pride in your work and in creating something like food, uh, and in people who are, are drawn to that food. Mm-hmm. And, I think that there's a reason that this started with food production. There's a reason that the two flagships are, the Home Homegirl Cafe and the Homeboy bakery. Mm-hmm. Um, and these people are really proud of what they do. And we need in our society. Restaurants and food production because not everybody can go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. Not everybody's set out for an academic, route. And the restaurant business, is the largest retail employer in, in the country. And we need to take care of our small restaurants. Hey,

26:21

Listen, guys, I hope you enjoyed the hour listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Scacchia. And I'm Mark Pasco. We are The Restaurant Guys.