Speaker 4 1:15

Hello, everybody, and welcome. You are listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Schaad. Together we own Stage Left and Cathal Lombardi Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.

Speaker 3 1:29

And we're bringing that to you from Chicago, where we just landed. We're here. We're gonna attend the Martini Expo while we're out here, but we also have lined up some chefs that we've always wanted to talk to. So, Sarah Grunenberg from Monteverdi Restaurant is our next stop.

Speaker 1:42

So we're gonna hop in a car and go over to Monteverde where Sara is waiting for us. We're gonna interview her. we can't wait. They do a lot of things very different than anywhere else. Looking forward to talking to her, and then we'll come back, have dinner there tonight, and record a little bit to tell you all about how good it was. if it's not great, then this is never gonna see the podcast, so if, if you're listening to me now, you know that we had a great dinner at Monteverde. Stick with us.

Francis 2:05

Hey there, everybody. Welcome back. We are, as promised, in Chicago, and we are at the famous Monteverde Restaurant with one of this city's most celebrated chefs. Sarah Grueneberg is the chef and co-owner here. Before opening Monteverde, she spent eight years at the legendary Spiaggia, as well as some of the best restaurants in the country. You may know her from Top Chef and her many media appearances. Uh, she's a James Beard Award winner for Best Chef Great Lakes, uh, and Monteverde is one of Chicago's most beloved restaurants, and Eater even says it's one of America's 38 essential restaurants. That's pretty rarefied company.

Sarah 2:42

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. So glad to hear it.

MIC2 2:45

Yeah, welcome to your hometown. Thanks for

Sarah 2:46

coming to Chicago.

MIC2 2:48

Yeah, yeah.

Francis 2:48

place. Yeah, yeah. It's awesome. well,

MIC2 2:49

you for

Francis 2:50

to meet with us. When we found out we were coming to Chicago, you were the first person we

MIC2 2:53

to talk to.

Sarah 2:53

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Thank you.

MIC2 2:56

Yeah,

Francis 2:56

You've had a pretty varied career. how did you wind up in Chicago?

Sarah 3:01

Uh, well, on a flight from S- But, um, I found my way up here staging. Mm. I was looking to move and make a change, and so flew up and, uh, slept on a friend's couch and staged around, and then flew back up again and staged around, and then luckily got a job offer at Spiaggia.

Mark 3:22

So what were the meaningful stages that you had when you were here?

Sarah 3:25

there was several. Um, I staged at the storied Tru restaurant- Mm. Yeah, sure, yeah uh, back in the day. Um, and there was a few other restaurants, 312 Chicago, which was a busy Italian restaurant up in the Theater District. Right. Um, I did a few days at, Tru and then Spiaggia, of course,

Mark 3:42

Rick Tramonto was on the show a million years ago. Yeah. A million years ago.

Francis 3:46

[悉 iest,

c 3:47

into Spiaggia

MIC2 3:49

as a stage and then you did, you were a rounds person, or what, what, what-

Sarah 3:52

I started on, on garde manger Yes.

MIC2 3:54

And then you

Francis 3:54

out Gustech in 的 作 品, able23,

MIC2 3:57

that's not the normal trajectory-

Sarah 4:00

Yeah in this business. Well, there's only a few, there's not. Yeah. There's a few spots open. Yeah, yeah. Right? But it's hard, it's hard to get in. But

MIC2 4:06

you built a really good restaurant from garde manger to- Yeah executive chef-

Sarah 4:10

Yeah

MIC2 4:10

for years. And, and you got a Michelin star when you were there, as I recall.

Sarah 4:13

I did, yes. Um, and Houston, backing up, I was there for four years cooking under Chris Shepherd. Right. Um, at Brennan's of Houston, which is a storied restaurant there. Right. And I worked my way up through that kitchen as a sous chef, but then when I moved to Chicago, I took a step down to do garde manger, to learn Italian cuisine.

MIC2 4:31

All right. So I

Francis 4:31

I wanna, 'cause we have a lot of young restaurant people who listen to the show, as well as a lot of old guys like us. But w- you know, I think one of the things that almost everywhere, front of house or back of the house, if you, to have a solid career, you've got to, at a couple of different points, take a step back to kind of recalibrate where you are. Talk to us what, talk to us about that, when you

Sarah 4:55

Yes, I mean, I think that, uh, learning is always something that continues, right? I, there's not a point in my career now that I'm not learning every day. Oh, absolutely. And I go, I go, "Oh, that's that." But at a, to, to try to put myself back into that mindset of really not knowing a lot and being truly green is kinda crazy. Um, and I think that sometimes you gotta know what you know and n- and be smart enough to know what you don't know. Yeah, yeah. And so that's where I think looking at these jobs and looking at these opportunities under, storied chefs and under restaurants that have, great kind of legs under them, is you can use them as a little bit of a kind of graduate program or a little, Yeah secondary education.

Francis 5:37

and under restaurants that have, um, you know, great kind of legs under them is you can use them as a little bit of a kind of graduate program or a little- Well, I- secondary education I just wa- just, I just wanna say quickly, if you're out there and you're, and you wanna make a career in this business, it's, it's a shot on your ego, right? You're a sous chef somewhere and you're like, "I'm gonna go be a stage somewhere. I'm gonna go work garde manger somewhere." Or you're, you're a, a hot bartender or you're a great ma- maitre d' and you're in the tip pool and you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna be the assistant manager now." You know, that's it's a shot on the ego, right? but you're strong enough to do it, I think it works to your advantage

Mark 6:02

I remember years ago, we ha- we had a guy who had three stars from The New York Times, chef owner of his own restaurant, and got back into the restaurant world, into the New Jersey restaurant world, and took a job as a sous chef for us. Okay. And after about a year and a half, the chef that was with us moved on, and he became chef of the restaurant, and we, we just sat him down. We're like, "We, we don't get it. Why did you take a sous chef job?" And he said, "Because chefs move all the time, and I wanted to pick the restaurant I wanted to be in, and I knew eventually there would be an opportunity for me if I did the work that I knew I could do, I knew there would be a, a place for me, and this was the kind of restaurant I wanted to work in. And that chef was a talented guy who I could learn things from." Yeah. "So why wouldn't I do that? And it was a year of my life where I got better- Mm-hmm and I got to work in the place that I wanted to work in." Yeah. And I thought that, I, I just thought that was so mature.

Francis 7:05

of character.

Mark 7:06

Yeah, and a lot of character.

Francis 7:07

and same to you when you took that, that, that step back to come to Chicago. Was it because you wanted to experience a different cuisine, different kind of restaurant, or was it because you wanted you fell in love with Chicago?

Sarah 7:18

Well, Chicago, you know, at that time, the ma- the premier dining cities were New York, Chicago, and San Francisco. Right. Um, and so really that, you know, that's still true, but there's a lot more premier cities now. Yeah, yeah. It's grown a lot. But those were the three, and this was in 2005, of where to go and, and work. And so New York felt like, ooh, I don't know, that's a little too far. I don't know if I can make it in New York. I'm this Texan girl.

Mark 7:43

we know you could have now.

Sarah 7:44

San Francisco is like, you know, my mom was like, "That's really far, and the parking tickets are gonna be crazy." And so Chicago was same time zone, two hours up, you know, like the, the Goldilocks perfect

Francis 7:57

I love it.

Sarah 7:58

And being on the water, like, I love being on the water, and I think, like, a lot of people don't realize until you come to Chicago, you don't... It's hard to explain what the lake- Yeah energy is and what it brings and, and just the, the people in Chicago.

Mark 8:12

brings snow, okay? You're not fooling anybody,

Sarah 8:14

I don't know. It's pretty magical. But, um, I fell in love with the city, and, and I also really wanted to learn Italian food, and I knew, I knew that I didn't know really anything about Italian food, and four-star in Chicago was different than four-star in Houston at the time.

Francis 8:32

Oh yeah, back then especially

Sarah 8:34

And Brennan's was a great restaurant and still is a great restaurant, so.

Francis 8:37

the difference back then is without Instagram, the, the Instagram has done a lot of damage to our industry in some ways, but it's done a lot of really good stuff as well. But it used to be that you had Chicago and New York and San Francisco, and then in the outlining areas a trend would slowly spread. We were in New Brunswick, New Jersey, which is 40 minutes by car from the Holland Tunnel in New

MIC2 8:57

City.

Sarah 8:57

Okay.

Francis 8:58

Right. When we opened, the, the dining trends were five years behind Manhattan, 40 minutes out, right? Wow. Be- but now if something becomes a trend

Mark 9:08

in '92.

c 9:08

Right.

Francis 9:09

Right, right. That was way long ago. But now if something be- if something becomes trendy i- in Dubai, if it goes viral on Instagram, it's around the world

Mark 9:17

If somebody's making

c 9:18

Exactly.

Francis 9:18

Yeah. I really like Chicago, and to me it seems architecturally, but also kind of culturally there's a, it's a Midwest thing. It's a different feel to the people on the streets. Um, and we have a lot of experience in restaurant dining rooms. Mm-hmm. Um, how's it different out in Chicago as opposed to New York and San

Sarah 9:39

in which way? In the city or in the restaurant? People. People. Let's talk about people. Okay. The dining room people

Francis 9:41

Let's talk about the people in the dining room, people you see on the street, the line cooks that work in the place. What's, how's it

Sarah 9:46

that a few things that are very similar is there's a pride of being Chicagoan- Mm-hmm and being in Chicago, just like you would see in a place like New York or New Jersey or- Right San Francisco, right? You love the city. Uh, but I would say that, that we're, the Chicagoans are a little more humble maybe. Uh, Midwestern nice is a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think, you know, food and sports is our pastimes in Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, half the year is cold and dark. And so when it's, when you decide that you're gonna live in a place that's cold and dark half the year, and then that's gorgeous the other half of the year, you have to have some kind of straight, you know, a, a line that goes through that you can connect on. Totally. And so sports gets us through, and restaurants gets us through.

Mark 10:36

me tell you about New Jersey nice, okay? Yeah. New Jersey nice means

Francis 10:40

I've never encountered that. Go ahead,

Mark 10:41

I call you names to your face, but if you need me, I'm 100% gonna

c 10:46

you.

Francis 10:46

Yeah,

Mark 10:47

Yeah. That's, that's, that's New Jersey nice. Got it. It's a different, it's under the- It's straightforward. It's un- Well, no, it's kinda under the skin. I'm cursing to your face, but I'm gonna take care of you. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Francis 10:56

But Chicago has that Midwest thing. it's true that Danny Meyer, when he first opened Union Square Cafe... Do you know this about his hiring practices?

Sarah 11:04

Which, which one?

MIC2 11:05

Danny

Francis 11:05

Meyer, when he opened Union Square Cafe, which was his first restaurant in New York- Yes, yes he only hired people from the Midwest to work there. Oh. Yeah, he's like, I, if, if you had experience in New York, he was not interested. He hired exclusively for front of house, people from the Midwest because they're nice and they get along with each other, and turned out to be a great strategy. It's turning out to be a great

Mark 11:25

out to be a great strategy. Yeah. Very New York centric. I, I'll tell you, in the world today, the people that I love to hire are people who've grown up in the restaurant business, their parents were involved somehow- Sure or children of entrepreneurs. Yes.

Sarah 11:36

Yes.

Mark 11:37

'Cause those are people who just- whatever it takes,

Francis 11:39

wanna add two to that. ex-military, farmers.

c 11:42

Farmers.

Francis 11:43

Farmers. If you worked on a farm, th- you, I, I know you can handle the work. You know what I mean? 'Cause,

Mark 11:49

I s- I always say that to people all the time, "This is gonna be the hardest job you ever had unless you worked on a farm."

Francis 11:53

That's harsh.

Mark 11:54

Then

Sarah 11:54

I know you can handle the work. You know what I mean? Sure. Sure. 'Cause honestly, I always say that to people all the time,

MIC2 11:55

This is gonna be the hardest job you ever had, unless you work on a farm." That's

Francis 11:56

so what is it like to hire people and build a team here? I mean, do people stay with you

c 12:00

Yeah,

Mark 12:00

what are you looking for?

Sarah 12:01

we've been pretty lucky. You know, Monteverde, uh, will be 11 in November. Uh-huh. And our general manager and our executive chef, Bailey, both have been with us over 10 years.

Mark 12:12

That's

Sarah 12:13

And, uh, many of our salaried team members have. We have a few servers that are original- Oh, wow of, of 11, a few back of house. you know, but we're not an easy restaurant to work in. Yeah. It's a busy restaurant. we have high standards, and we are a casual, fun vibe. Like, like, the food, you know, we kinda try to, like, underpromise and overdeliver kinda vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but then when people come in, they eat, and they're like, "Wow, this is really great." And I think it has to do with the people that work in the restaurants. And so hiring and, and fostering a team, I think my advice comes from, like, really trying to pass that down to the team that's hiring, and building the team and letting them kind of work through. We have way more admin now in restaurants than we've ever had. Yeah.

c 13:03

Yeah.

Sarah 13:03

for good and bad, you know, it takes us out of the space a little bit, another piece I would say that's hard is a lot of people don't wanna be New Jersey nice and tell you to your face what they're thinking. Mm-hmm. But we're trying to also foster just some transparent communication amongst people. Yeah, yeah. And, like, being able to get criticism or feedback and also counter that with, "This is what I would do next. And if this happens again, this is where I would go with this." Yeah. And trying to, like, build people that can have a gut. I think that's really what we're doing, is trying to build people that can, on their own, answer the questions, go through the service, problem solve as they need to. When

MIC2 13:44

you say-

Francis 13:44

you say you have, um, it's more admin, I, I agree with you and I have my own, and Mark and I have our own view of what that means. what do you mean by that?

Sarah 13:52

Oh, it's a lot. I mean, it's, it's a lot of communication, a lot of email communication, uh, from guests, and also just internally. Yeah. But we have a manager right now that just manages, our internal, guest-facing email that's almost a 40-hour-a-week position.

c 14:09

the- Well,

Mark 14:09

we're constantly talking about how much time we spend on emails. Yes. Or WhatsApp or texts or however pe- And that's the worst, because people are communicating you in all these different ways. Yeah. You're like, "Wait a second. That guy's coming in tonight, and he reached out to me, but how did he reach out to me? was it via text? Was it via WhatsApp?" So- It's hard to- condensing all that information into one system is difficult.

Sarah 14:33

is difficult. Yeah. also the admin comes from just needing to be really careful in checking our T's and crossing our- Yeah whatever that

Francis 14:42

your T's and dotting your I's? Yeah.

Sarah 14:44

Um, so making sure that training is happening, that the, the information is there for people, that we keep track of certain things like that. It's, interesting.

MIC2 14:54

So

Francis 14:54

So talk to me about the soul of Monteverde, right? So all of this stuff is in service of... guest doesn't see any of that. Somebody walks into the door of Monteverde, what do you want them to feel? What do you want them to experience? What makes you different than

c 15:08

want

Francis 15:08

any other restaurant?

c 15:09

makes than any other I

Sarah 15:10

would say when you walk into Monteverde, I want people to feel like a wave of calm chaos energy. And I don't know if those mean anything to you, 'cause

Francis 15:21

No, it means two opposite things at the same time. I'm just not sure how to synthesize them. But tell me, that's the interesting story

Sarah 15:27

so I want people to walk in and feel like they can brush off any of the day's headaches. Yeah. Yeah. they're walking in, they're like, "Ugh, I cannot care about that phone call I had, or that meeting I had that wasn't great." You're here now. You're here now. Yeah. You're here now. So that's the calm. But then the chaos is the where am I? This restaurant's busy, and it's vibing, and it smells good, and the music's fun, and I can see pasta being made, and there's pasta hanging. And, you know, it has this, like, whole kind of thing happening.

Mark 15:59

it's vibing, and it smells good, and the music's fun, and I can see pasta being made, and there's pasta hanging. And, you know, it has this, like, whole kind of thing happening. That's great. I, o- one of the things that Francis and I intended when we opened Cathal Lombardi, our second restaurant, was we wanted you to feel like you were in my grandmother's living room. Mm-hmm.

Francis 16:08

with better music. grandmother d-

Sarah 16:09

There was plastic on the

Mark 16:10

there was some music at your grandmother's- Was there, was there plastic on the couch? There was plastic on- Oh, my God.

Sarah 16:11

no. It was still raining. What are we gonna do with the plastic on the

Mark 16:15

still angry at him- because what I wanted was a memorial chair covered in plastic.

Francis 16:22

I would have allowed the one chair. You wanted the whole place covered in plastic like your grandmother's living room. And I will tell you-

Sarah 16:28

plastic on all the furniture at the restaurants-

Mark 16:30

So one ye- so

MIC2 16:32

Amazing. After my-

Mark 16:34

passed away, my grandmother eventually cut all the plastic off the couches, and we were all afraid they were just gonna disintegrate

Sarah 16:40

like, "He's, he needed this. It's done. We can dirty the couch. We can live in it."

Mark 16:45

the other thing my grandmother's house had in Brooklyn was there was a runner for when you walked through the- Plastic runner

Francis 16:52

runner that you'd roll out, yeah. My mom had that too.

Mark 16:54

My mom had that too. No, but, but- In the carpet and I still don't understand why. There was a plastic runner- Exactly and then after, like, 10 years, there was another plastic runner put on top of that. Oh, I didn't know that. And then after, like, 10 years, there was another pla- So there were four or five plastic runners on top of each other going through my grandmother's dining

Francis 17:11

we had the roll-up plastic runner that w- was there connecting the kitchen and the front door the whole time. Mm-hmm. But when company would come over, we would roll up the runner, and they could put their feet on the actual

Mark 17:21

Oh, we never saw the actual carpet. I d- I don't, I don't think I ever saw it

Francis 17:25

so what we did in our place was we really were going for the, the, Mark's grandmother's... She's a great lady. So she had passed away when we went to open the second restaurant and we named it after her. so we, put banquettes that kind of are reminiscent of couches. Yeah. You know, we put some... A- and what I like about our restaurant is we have Fortuni silk chandeliers on the top. Nice. Um, but we also have, the floor lamps and, and table lamps that v- are from Home Depot, and they're 69 bucks, right? And, and it creates this- the high, it's the high-low, yeah. And it creates the right kinda lighting. It should feel

Mark 17:58

didn't put in the 12,000 piece crystal chandelier that was hanging in her house. No, no. 'Cause that was gonna, that was gonna be a little, little much.

Francis 18:07

was gonna be a little, little much That was over the

Mark 18:07

That was a- That was gonna be a little much.

c 18:08

So,

Francis 18:08

It's

MIC2 18:09

where does your

Francis 18:10

gonna be a little much So, so where does your decor from, come from? Where does your food come from, and what am I gonna get from your food in your dining room?

Sarah 18:14

Well, so Monteverde was designed by Karen Harold, and she's an incredible designer. I had been a big fan of her design work. She designed a restaurant called GT Fish Oyster, which rest in peace, had to close. But the, the vibe of that restaurant was like walking in a James Bond yacht. That's what she said. Okay. And when I walked in that restaurant, I was like, "I'm walking into a special place." Wow. And she had artwork and things all around that her father had painted and just looked kind of like, you know, like that ugly chic thing. Like, I grew- Yeah, chic like, I grew up with like, being from Texas, like paintings of like Longhorns and farms and

c 18:51

farms.

Sarah 18:51

Yeah like, you know, the

Francis 18:52

Yeah.

Mark 18:53

we didn't have

Sarah 18:54

I'm not putting that in my house now. But like, she had like all these great like fisherman paintings everywhere. Yeah. So I knew I wanted Karen to help, and she found a way to kinda tap into who I was and what I was feeling inside, even though at the time I was... I mean, hell, I'm 45 now, so I was, you know, 33 when we were starting to design this restaurant. And I knew I wanted it to feel like you walk in and it, you could feel like the artistry of pasta was being made. And so she, at first I was thinking, you know, the pasta will be made at the bar, and you could sit at the bar, and, and, and those people just sitting at that spot- Right would see the pasta being made. Right. And then she's like, "No, we're gonna elevate it behind the bar, and you're gonna walk in, and there's gonna be rafters, and pasta's hanging, and then there's a mirror, and then..." So I was like, "Oh my God, this is exactly really what I wanted." Yeah. But I hadn't really seen it. Right. So we really, we had the first pasta ficio in the restaurant being made, our pasta,

Mark 19:54

tell our listeners exactly what that is.

Sarah 19:55

So the pasta ficio is where we make the fresh pasta- Right and it's on stage. So basically, taking a prep piece that was commonly in the basement of a kitchen- Right, sure and bringing it up to the- Right front of house. And, um, we, during my stages in Italy and, and being in three Michelin star restaurants where they would actually, you know, ravioli would come in, they would roll the dough, fill the dough, cut them, put them in the water- To order to order. Wow. But 30 seats. Yeah, yeah, right. I really wanted to do it, so we do it for 110.

MIC2 20:27

Wow. So

Francis 20:27

you, so you make the pasta when the order comes in or

MIC2 20:30

For

Sarah 20:30

the fresh filled.

Francis 20:31

Are you

Mark 20:32

we make it in, we make it in the afternoon. I'm not going to lie. That's, that's, uh, it's fresh, but that's as fresh as we get.

Sarah 20:38

Well, I can't wait for y'all to taste

Francis 20:40

I

Mark 20:40

it. Ah, we're very excited.

Francis 20:41

We're dinin- we're dining tomorrow night. We're, we're having the interview before we dine, but that's okay. We're gonna come

Sarah 20:45

So it, you know, it came, and I th- to me it was about, there's so many different schools of pasta, and I don't think there's any that are incorrect or, or not.

MIC2 20:53

Oh, I think there's some that are

Sarah 20:53

incorrect. Um, well, true. Yeah. I guess that's true. It's New Jersey, the

Francis 20:57

come

Sarah 20:57

New Jersey so we're here. That's the difference right there. New Jersey. And then Texas nice, we don't, we just love everyone. Bless your heart is basically. Yeah. Um, but the pasta, you know, is the center part. And we've been very lucky that the two women that work up there throughout the day, actually three are original from 11 years. And one is Beysa, who is from Bologna. Uh-huh. Um, and then Maria is from Mexico. And Beysa is the sfoglia who kind of mastered the, sheeting and the fresh egg pasta, and Maria is the master of the extruder. And so we have both pastas being done. The extruder pasta we make throughout. Throughout. And that's, that's not, that's made fresh, but not to- Yeah. You, you want that to dry. Dry. You want that to get the texture. Yeah. But the filled pasta, it allowed us to put more interesting fillings inside, and it allowed us to have a higher moisture content- Sure in the filling because if you make the pasta in the morning, then it sits, you know, the bottom gets soggy. It gets soggy on the bottom. Or you have to make a thicker- Yeah, yeah crust. So it just allowed a little difference, and I think our guests realized, "Wow, I can eat a little more and not feel so full," or- Yeah "Why does your pasta feel lighter another big key piece of that pasta feat show is our batteria. And the batteria is, a series of barrels where balsamic is aged in Emilia-Romagna. So, um, a lot of my training was in that region. Right. And my dear friend Andrea, third generation, Acetaio, and I wanted, I, I realized that balsamic was one of the most misunderstood ingredients- Yeah in maybe in Italian cooking. Yeah. You go to the grocery store now, the aisles of it, but none of it's actually real balsamic. Right. It's all wine vinegar that's been added to, to- Right look and taste like that.

Francis 22:41

Right. when we look for great balsamics, we generally buy them from wine importers. They're the only guys who will have the g- the real balsamics- Sure if they have a serious interest

Sarah 22:49

Sure. So, Acetaia San Giacomo, great balsamic from Reggio Emilia, and we have our barrels. We have seven barrels. Um, we do a rincalzo every year, which means we, we take the half of the smallest barrel and, and serve that, and then we take the next size barrel and fill. So it's the Soleras system.

Mark 23:07

system. Same,

Sarah 23:08

we fill the biggest barrel. We top that up, and

Francis 23:12

So if you don't know, if you don't know what we're talking about here, I just wanted to l- give a little

MIC2 23:15

Yeah,

Sarah 23:15

I can

MIC2 23:16

In Bologna-

Francis 23:16

Modena, in Modena when you make balsamic vinegar, it is kind of treated... You know how you keep wine always cool and at the same temperature? Like, this is not that. So we make the vinegar in a very careful way, but one of the things we do is they have barrels, increasingly smaller barrels, and as... But the real expensive balsamic vinegar that's 20 and 25

Mark 23:37

God reduces it, not

Francis 23:38

Yeah, exactly. So it goes in a large barrel, and then you kind of solera it through to smaller and smaller barrels as more of it evaporates.

Sarah 23:46

they actually start by cooking the juice first. Right. And so that's cooked grape must- Right known as saba. Right. And then that cooked must goes in the barrels and ferments. Right. And- And that's the biggest misunderstanding, is people think that it's like a fermented wine. Like, it- No it's a wine. Yeah. But it's, it's different,

Francis 24:02

And also the barrels can be different woods as you go down, and so they sort of each... Which is crazy, right? Because we think, "Okay, it's, it's barrel, it must be oak." But, mm-

c 25:39

different woods.

Sarah 25:39

different

Francis 25:40

have five different woods. Uh, what do you have? What are your

Mark 25:41

Oh yeah, tell us what the woods

Sarah 25:42

have a, a case on, I forget one, but a- Acacia is one of them.

Francis 25:45

a acacia and then I forget. Acacia is always one of them, right? That-

Sarah 25:46

mulberry, um, oak, and cherry.

Francis 25:49

All right, now I'm excited for dinner tomorrow night. Okay, I'm a balsamic vinegar cr- crazy man about

Mark 25:54

I'm also, and I'm not sure that Frances knows this, next month I'm going back to Modena and Bologna. So I'm very excited to go back and see all

Sarah 26:02

I will connect you with my friend

Mark 26:03

I will connect you with my friend who's- For sure.

MIC3 26:04

Oh,

c 26:04

please

Sarah 26:05

which is the smaller province that makes balsamic. Okay. So I will be happy

Mark 26:09

Oh, that'd be great. Thank

Sarah 26:11

area.

Francis 26:11

I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna... So we're gonna take a break in just a moment. We'll come back on the other side. But I have to tell you, Mark loves balsamic vinegar, but he knows that I am a nut for balsamic

Sarah 26:19

see, we're trying

Francis 26:20

do you know what Mark got me for my birthday this year? A little jar of balsamic

MIC2 26:24

Oh, that's great.

Francis 26:25

me for my birthday this year. It was pretty amazing.

Mark 26:27

balsamic vinegar. Very nice. A, a, a very expensive, tiny little

Francis 26:29

A, a

Mark 26:29

of balsamic vinegar. Tiny. Exactly.

c 26:31

All

Francis 26:31

right. We'll be back in just a moment. We're gonna be talking more with Sarah. Stick with us. Don't go away. You can always find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com. Hey there, everybody. Welcome back. We are once again with Sarah. We're having a grand old time, and now I can't wait to have balsamic vinegar. I can't wait to have fresh pasta made to order. How many restaurants in the country do you think make pasta to order, like make the pasta

Mark 26:54

their own balsamic vinegar, okay? I, those two things combined, I, I, I can't think of another one

Francis 26:59

balsamic vinegar. Yeah, but,

Sarah 27:00

I don't know. I there's a few now- Invented that have the pasta ficio in the dining room- Oh which has been a great trend to

Francis 27:06

do you think they legitimately make it to order like that or do they just have

Sarah 27:10

think some do, and then some make it... You know, I don't think there's a wrong way. Like, I think some make it, like, several portions at a time and, and depending on how busy we are, we'll get ahead on a few portions. But we don't ever make anything that's,

Francis 27:24

Designed to sit there for a few hours

Sarah 27:25

No, not at all. But I do think there's several. Evan Funke in, LA has a pasta ficio and does a great job. there's a restaurant, called Figrino in Raleigh Uh, one thing I did wanna s- touch on really quick is you asked about how does it feel in the restaurant. Yeah. And so I will say that I think that those barrels housing the balsamic is part of the soul of the restaurant because the balsamic is always alive. It's always fermenting. It's always aging, reducing, and it, I think it's a little bit of what keeps the little bit of feeling. So when you walk in tomorrow, I just wanna know what

Mark 27:59

it, I think it's a little bit

Francis 27:59

lo- well, Mark, I, I w- Two years

Mark 28:01

two years ago, I, my aunt passed away- Okay and I got my great-grandparents' vinegar pots that they brought over from- Wow Italy. So we are now aging red wine vinegar- That's fantastic in the vinegar pots in our,

Francis 28:16

Not balsamic,

MIC2 28:17

but-

Sarah 28:17

But sure. Yeah yeah But

Mark 28:18

wi- red wine vinegar. Yeah. Uh, and so, you know, and sometimes a $80 bottle of wine, you know, half a bottle of wine goes into the, into the vinegar. It's extraordinary, but we can't make it fast enough-

Francis 28:33

Well, and it also-

c 28:34

To, to

Mark 28:35

it c- consistently the restaurant. I mean- Well, we use it in the restaurant. Yeah. No, we're using it in the restaurant, but it's a special. It's a thing that night. It's a-

Sarah 28:42

with our balsamic, um, the one from our barrels is on, uh, a snack called Sarah's Spuntino. Uh-huh. And that's my snack from Saturday mid-service, the thing I wanted to eat, which is perfectly temperatured Parmigiano-Reggiano with drops of the balsamic and a little salami and those breadsticks. that's how we serve that balsamic.

Francis 29:01

I'm your brother from another mother. Literally, I, that is what, how I e- have the bre-

Mark 29:05

That is what, how I had the- That is 100% how he does it.

Francis 29:06

I do it at, for breakfast at home. That little bottle that Mark gave me. Yeah. You know, I, a little bit of our Parmigiano-Reggiano that I bring home, couple of drops, and that is, that is breakfast for me. That and an egg,

Sarah 29:16

I keep Parm on the, on the counter under a cloche, so it's

Mark 29:20

cloche, so it's always- Well, way, way back when

Francis 29:21

I knew we'd be friends

Mark 29:23

in '92, '93, we had a dessert on the menu that was strawberries and

Francis 29:28

Oh, strawberries and balsamic Black pepper

Mark 29:31

just a little bit of, of, of

Francis 29:32

And black pepper. Just a little bit of our- Goat cheese Of goat cheese. Yeah

MIC2 29:32

cheese

Mark 29:33

of goat cheese. Yeah. Very delicate. It was spectacular. at the time we didn't have a pastry chef. it was very expensive, but not nearly what it is now

Sarah 29:41

is now.

Francis 29:41

Yeah. And, and Mark

Sarah 29:43

really kind of, they were like, "Please take it,"

c 29:45

people know what this is. Yeah. But

Mark 29:45

it was real. That's where we learned about- Yeah

Sarah 29:45

make pe- let people know what this is.

Francis 29:48

But it was real. That's where we learned about the, um, the bals- balsamic vinegar. So I, I wanna talk about your Italian cuisine. I wanna talk about the food a little bit, 'cause I read your menus, and we haven't eaten at your restaurant yet, I read about your food from other people and heard about it from folks we

Sarah 30:04

Okay.

MIC2 30:04

So

Mark 30:04

what's cool about today's show, though, is the very end of this show we're gonna do after we eat in your restaurant. Cool. Yeah.

Francis 30:11

Yeah. And,

MIC2 30:12

Yeah, I

Francis 30:13

In this case, it's gonna be tomorrow Yeah, I hope it's not like, "Well, that sucked, Marc. I was really disappointed in, uh, Sarah's food." You gonna tell her? I'm not gonna tell her. Anyway, so we- We have many Jerseyites

Sarah 30:21

be Jersey nice. Y'all can't be Midwestern nice in it, all right? Fair enough. You

MIC2 30:24

Fair enough.

Francis 30:25

our first restaurant, fine dining contemporary American restaurant, Second restaurant we opened is after Marc's grandmother has passed away. Marc's grandmother was awesome. Center of their family, taught him about food,

c 30:35

food- And

Mark 30:35

hospitality

Francis 30:36

House and h- and the food anchor of that family. She was a great lady. the idea is most of the recipes in Catherine Lombardi, not all, uh, 70%, would be something that Catherine Lombardi would make, and really to her recipes, to her standards- Wow and with our quality ingredients. And the rest of it, we call it an Italian-American restaurant. Catherine Lombardi cooked in Brooklyn, right? We don't pretend to be a, Puglia restaurant when... And we do what the Italian-Americans did. They brought those traditions into the ingredients that were here and combined them with in- ingre- and I think we do that with integrity. You, it strikes me that you do some of the similar things, and I just wanna point out some stuff that I saw on your me- Two items that really struck me that you did the, that you do the same thing. Okay. You have a, an 'Nduja arancini. Yes. And you also have the Calabrian pimento cheese.

Mark 31:23

you

c 31:24

made

Francis 31:24

I think you made that up, 'cause there's no such thing as Calabrian pimento cheese

Sarah 31:28

it's named after my husband, Jamie, and that's his recipe. That's why it's called

Francis 31:32

I love it

Mark 31:33

that's

Sarah 31:33

cheese. But, you know, coming from... So Monteverde, the food, so people kind of ask me, like, "What's your elevator pitch? What's your quick one sentence?" And I always said I had to figure out what that was. And so I would say, you know, and it sounds a little cheesy now, but then it made sense, "It's Italian food, uh, with a traditional heart, with a modern hand." Oh, I like that. So I wanted the heart of the dish to be something that would tie back to something traditional in Italy, but that the hand of being American, you can mess around with a little bit. And that kind of came from the, advice to some of my Italian friends Uh-huh that I would go there and study and try to learn how to make the green tortelli exactly perfect with amount of Parm and nutmeg and butter and sage and, and then I would make it here when they would come visit. And they were like, "It's good, but it, it's better, you know-

c 32:20

Yeah

Sarah 32:20

you should do your version." Yeah. He's like, "You're American- Yeah so we can't change as much as we want because the tradition." You know, when you go to Bologna- Right. Yeah most of the menus look almost the same. Yeah,

Francis 32:32

yeah, yeah. Traditional, traditional.

Sarah 32:34

it's-

Mark 32:35

It's the Bologna menu. Yeah, absol- absolutely.

c 32:37

in

Sarah 32:37

and it depends- Yeah on which restaurant you go to. Yeah. So they were like, "You know, Sara, please celebrate your ability to be different." And so that's when I s- kind of came up with the concept of, okay, I could branch out, and it started with the, like something like the vincio cheese. My grandmother made stuffed cabbage growing up. You know, I'm a German Texas background. No Italian. I haven't done the DNA, but I don't have any- Yeah any-

Francis 33:01

You don't look

Sarah 33:01

Italian in me. Well, thanks.

Francis 33:03

although the Germans invaded Italy a couple of times,

Mark 33:06

Yeah any Italian- You don't look it. Thanks. Although, although the Germans invaded Italy a couple times. I, I will say the dish tomorrow night that I'm most looking forward to- Okay is the pork neck

Sarah 33:12

I will say- Oh, man the dish tomorrow night that I'm most looking forward to- Okay is the pork neck. Oh, yeah, the fusilli. So that's very traditional.

Mark 33:15

very excited

Francis 33:17

Traditional where? So where is the pork, uh, where's that traditional

Mark 33:19

is

Sarah 33:19

say more Naples, Calabria. Naples,

Mark 33:22

the necks were in the meat

Sarah 33:24

Yeah. It's

Mark 33:25

that was part of the meat gravy all the time.

Francis 33:27

my mom threw them out.

Mark 33:28

My, my mom threw that out.

Sarah 33:30

Yeah, I mean, that's like a several day process because we have to make the tomato. So we braise the pork necks in the tomato sauce. We get all the tomato sauce, and then we take shoulder, and then we sear the shoulder and braise the shoulder in the pork neck tomato sauce. So it's a two-step sauce. Yeah. And you can't skimp on some things like that. Yeah. Um, but there's some dishes that are classic like that, and then there's some, like the cacio e pepe, which, you know, everyone loves a cacio e pepe, but cacio whey pepe is where we use whey to make the sauce.

Francis 33:58

a

Sarah 33:59

And so it's... There's no butter in it, just

Francis 34:01

cacio whey pepe is where we use whey to make the sauce Oh. And so it's, there's no butter in it, just like- So the whey kinda melts the cheese into the-

Sarah 34:05

a... Yes, we make a, a pesto, if you will, of pecorino and whey, and then that's what we mount into the pasta- Oh with whey.

c 34:14

Oh, no.

Francis 34:15

in advance, but I have to say this Oh,

c 34:16

no.

Francis 34:17

No way. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Yes, yes way. Very good. I knew we would get along. All right.

Sarah 34:23

I can't wait for you to try our meatball.

MIC2 34:25

Great.

Mark 34:25

Great. I'm so

Sarah 34:26

like Mr. Jersey, I'm like,

Francis 34:28

gonna talk about

c 34:29

So

Mark 34:29

we're gonna talk about meatballs in a minute

c 34:30

Okay.

Francis 34:31

yeah. your tradition growing up, you grew up in a culinary household? You, what, what was the food there?

Sarah 34:37

you grew up in a culinary household? You, what, what was- I, so I, I grew up, um, with a, with a single mom who traveled a lot, and so I was, uh, introduced to a lot of different great families that kind of helped take care of me- Take care of you throughout the week. And then in the summertime I would go to my grandparents', um, kind of country home. Uh, and my grandfather had cattle, so I would go and, like, ride with him to feed the cattle. Oh. He had some cattle sometimes at the house, depending if they were pregnant or not. Oh. Uh, he had a garden. So I, my grandmother did pickles. What does that mean, cattle at the house? Exactly. So, like, he would bring, like, if he had pregnant cows- Uh-huh he would bring them to the barn at the house to

Mark 35:16

Not like in the kitchen.

Sarah 35:18

Not in the kitchen. No, no, no, like there was a small barn in the backyard. Okay. 'Cause, so they-

MIC2 35:22

To

Francis 35:22

closer eye on

Sarah 35:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Francis 35:24

So what was the food tradition there? Was it roasts and steaks and

Sarah 35:27

So it was a deep freezer full of white paper wrapped beef-

MIC2 35:31

Okay

Sarah 35:32

cuts of every cut that you could

Francis 35:34

And what do they do with it?

Sarah 35:35

And what did you do with it? Um, a lo- all kinds of things. Yeah. Stews, um, a lot of cutlets that we would bread and fry. Oh. Um, lots of casseroles, homemade cinnamon rolls, venison sausage,

Francis 35:48

And so how do you- And little beads and so how do you get from there into the culinary world that you're in now? What's the bridge? What's the path?

Sarah 35:54

well, I think it was working at Brennan's and learning the Texas Creole cuisine and building some of that, and then coming to Chicago and falling in love and... So when I was... So I worked my way up in the kitchen at Spiaggia, and then to get the executive chef role, which I took over for Missy Robbins- Mm-hmm famous, amazing- Yeah. Yeah. Yes chef from New York. she was going back to New York, so Tony Montano, who was the chef of, uh, Spiaggia, great mentor, he basically asked me if I had a passport. So he sent me to Italy in 2008. Ah. Hallelujah.

Francis 36:26

How long were you there?

Sarah 36:27

uh, two weeks, and I had a ticket into Rome and a ticket leaving Milan, by myself, didn't speak English. This is before iPhones

Francis 36:34

Didn't speak Italian I did speak Italian,

Sarah 36:35

Didn't speak Italian. We didn't speak Italian. Sorry, yes. You do speak Italian. This was... I did s- Yeah. I can't, actually.

c 36:39

Well,

Sarah 36:39

Yeah. Um, this was before, like, GPS. This was, like, I had to go in- Wow the internet cafe to log on. it was not as easy as now- Yeah like, with maps and translate apps and things like

Francis 36:50

Dude, that was brave of you to go.

MIC2 36:52

of you

Sarah 36:52

to go. It was. Yeah. And it changed my life.

Mark 36:54

Yeah. I say this to people and I say it on the show all the time, travel, travel, travel. Go places. See other people. See other cultures. you have to go abroad and see how different the food culture is in these other countries because so many of us are raised with the shortcuts- Mm-hmm ...of, food life. Sure. And the European culture just isn't like that. It's just not. There, you don't have

Francis 37:19

well, and also to have that food in that context is very different. It helps you to recreate the spirit of it here. Yeah. So that started a travel bug for you there. You traveled a lot for food,

Sarah 37:28

and I traveled when I was little 'cause my mom traveled a lot, and so she would take me along. But that Italy trip really changed, like, I- Tony was like, "You're gonna get the Italian bug," and he was right. Like, you know, it bites you and you can't let go. Yeah. Um, and Tony was a great mentor for me and, uh, almost like a father, and he really was so strict about it being like Spiaggia was like regional Italian, not Italian American. And so I really at the time wanted to go and learn, and that's when my eyes opened to how different the regionality and how different- Sure the, you know, everyone thinks they know Italian food, but it takes a lifetime to learn Italian food, and it takes dedication. Italy

Francis 38:10

food. I mean, it takes dedication Well, Italy is 90 different countries, it's, culinarily speaking, right? So, you know

Sarah 38:13

it, it's, it captured me and, uh, Monteverde's menu is a little bit of a mix of those things mixed with some American, stories.

Francis 38:22

I look forward to trying it. I wanna ask you one final question. It may seem a little out of the blue- Okay um, but y- your restaurant is known, and you talked a lot about the vibe and kind of the l- life of the balsamic vinegar coming out into the, into the ether of the restaurant, which I think is great. Um, what's the music in the restaurant, and how do you pick the music in the restaurant?

Sarah 38:43

the music is, like, a little bit of a throwback, a mix of kind of '70s, '80s- Mm-hmm '90s, two thou... Like, it's kind of a classic songs you wanna dance to or to listen to. You know, there's some R&B. It's like a mix.

Francis 38:57

you came up with that?

Sarah 38:58

I think coming from Spiaggia where it was classical music, I was like, "I wanna have something a little more fun." Yeah, yeah. But we're actually talking about now, we work with a company 'cause now, you know, you can't just plug in your Spotify. You

Francis 39:08

You gotta get your commercial Spotify. You gotta, you can pay for that,

Sarah 39:11

um, we use a company called Gravy, and they help curate

Mark 39:15

Oh, that's great

Sarah 39:16

Yeah different, times. And so I'm actually about to talk to him about getting some new artists on the list. Yeah. I remember- But

Francis 39:23

I remember

Sarah 39:24

has a new album that I'm very

Francis 39:25

I'm very excited. Oh, nice. Yeah. But okay, final note before we go though. You have exciting news about, about another restaurant? What's

Sarah 39:32

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. How'd you forget about that?

Francis 39:34

forgot about that. Yeah? How'd you forget about that? Well, um-

Sarah 39:36

um-

Francis 39:36

the world. Here, announce it. Breaking news on the restaurant, guys

Sarah 39:40

So, we are opening our second restaurant now- Yay 11 years in- Uh-huh uh, in the Bucktown neighborhood, and, um, we're scheduled to open, we think, first quarter next year. And the name of the restaurant is Trattoria Loso.

Francis 39:53

Loso? How do you spell Loso and what does that mean?

Sarah 39:55

Loso, and what does that mean? L-O-S-O, means I know. Oh. And so it's the Trattoria I Know. And it comes from just, again, building a space that the team inside of the four walls are going to build something that's comfortable and lived in, and a trattoria is a place I think that you could eat at every day of the week- Sure and never feel tired or- Sure and feel healthful. And so to me, I want this trattoria to be the one that you know, that you know, that you know, that I know, that we all just say, "I need this moment in my life. I need to go have my linguine and clams at Trattoria

MIC2 40:28

Loso." And

Francis 40:28

when do you project it to open?

Sarah 40:29

We think January, maybe February.

c 40:31

maybe February.

Francis 40:31

we're gonna put all this information up in the show notes, and you can try v- uh, both of your restaurants hopefully early next year. Yes. Um, uh, but in the meantime, we'll come here. We'll tell everybody about it. We'll talk to you, we're gonna come back on the other side of this after we have had dinner. Okay. And I will give you a report. Hope it's good. Hope it's good. You're gonna be very hard judging this for you.

Sarah 40:53

you'll get to meet Bailey Sullivan, who's our executive

Francis 40:55

her

Mark 40:56

met Bailey on the way in earlier

c 40:57

today.

MIC2 40:57

Yeah,

Sarah 40:58

I read all about her.

Francis 40:58

Looks like a

Sarah 40:58

gonna be the chef at Loso.

Mark 41:00

Ah,

Francis 41:00

Loso. Well, thank, thanks for being our f- See you tomorrow. Thanks for being our first interview out here in Chicago. Yeah. It's, it's great. You are very nice. Thank you. Yeah. As, as- Well, I'm not very

Sarah 41:06

Thank you. Well, not really nice. Well- It's, no, I was just teasing you.

Francis 41:10

I lo- I love that. We'll be back in just a moment or two and tell you all about our dinner, You can find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com as always.

MIC1-1 41:20

Okay, so here we are. It is after the dinner that we've had, and, um, boy, everything that was promised was delivered.

MIC2-1 41:26

I, I'm sorry to tell the listeners- Yeah the best part of our day was not the show, it was the dinner. We're the rubber duck guys. We're the Restaurant Guys

MIC1-1 41:33

It was the dinner. It's where the rubber hits the road, the Restaurant Guys listeners. Really, truly worth a trip to Chicago- Yeah for the, for that. Really. Pasta ficio, I had no idea such a thing

MIC2-1 41:42

It's, funny 'cause I, I enjoyed that and I think that's a great thing to have in your restaurant, but for me I didn't find it that interesting 'cause I see people make pasta every day.

MIC1-1 41:51

Yeah, but not in a... Okay, yes- but not to order. Not to

MIC2-1 41:53

not to

MIC1-1 41:54

"Pasta can't be more than an hour old." I w- I'm... Are you crazy? The end, she wasn't crazy. The f- food really d- really, really delivered. Um, I, can I start with what really blew it all up for me? Which really- Sure I thought was... I was trying to figure out how they were going to do a whole chicken Parmesan. And, you know, chicken Parmesan's an American more than an Italian dish.

MIC2-1 42:16

Right. I was thinking bone-in- But yeah, I mean,

MIC1-1 42:18

I'm like- "What's that gonna look like?"

MIC2-1 42:19

literally, that was what, what hit me in my head

MIC1-1 42:21

thinking of, like, a roasted chicken. A roasted chicken bone. Like,

MIC2-1 42:22

of like- Is this gonna be a bone-in... Right.

MIC1-1 42:23

I'm like, "How many pounds of mozzarella do you need to put on top of that roasted chicken?" What they do is they take the, the two breasts of the chicken. They then take all the innards, all the gizzards, all the dark meat, and they make different things to stuff- Mm-hmm the chicken with, and then they basically put the two breasts one on top of the other and stuff it down the middle, and then treat it with a, a Parmesan and, um, wonderful tomato sauce

MIC2-1 42:47

and very important, the left breast goes on the bottom and the right breast goes on the top for this dish.

MIC1-1 42:52

Why is

MIC2-1 42:53

is that? I just Italian no

MIC1-1 42:55

I don't know. Just made up. You know- I thought it

MIC2-1 42:56

you can't put

MIC1-1 42:58

Italian nonna malocchio can't put the, the right breast on the top thing. Oh, wow. No, but the food was good. You gotta admit, that food was it

MIC2-1 43:06

s- it was a special evening, I'm a persnickety guy. Yep. but I love food. I enjoyed every single bite in that restaurant. Well,

MIC1-1 43:13

I have to say, we all have strengths and weaknesses in this partnership, and we've been partners for 35 years, and we were kind of on the sly b- business partners before that when we were working for somebody else. And there are some things that one of us is better at than the other. I win persnickety.

MIC2-1 43:29

So the thing that I wanna talk about, it was the meatball.

MIC1-1 43:33

Oh. Okay? Okay, hold on. Everybody, before he talks about the meatball, and he's gonna rave, this is Mark Pascal talking about a meatball. Not many meatballs meet the Mark Pascal meatball standard.

MIC2-1 43:43

a mediocre meatball, I actively

MIC1-1 43:45

And most of them, in your view, are

MIC2-1 43:47

So this is an all-pork meatball, but blended with soppressata. Mm. Okay? And the soppressata gave it a little bit of pepperiness- Oh that was really delightful. But more important than any of that, this was very much like my grandmother's Frankly, m- because we make an all-beef meatball, more than our meatballs- Yeah, yeah are like my grandmother's because of being all pork, and that little pepperiness and the cheesiness and the, the way the, the bread was, like my grandmother, they do the exact same thing. they dry the bread, soak it in milk, squeeze the, the milk out of the bread. that is as Cathole Lombardi as you could

MIC1-1 44:25

you can possibly get. Well, and it's, uh, that is a different texture of meatball than we serve. I love our meatballs, and I love these meatballs, and they're really tremendous. hanging out with Mark Pasquale, and it's, you know, partially cloudy and a 90% chance of meatballs. That's, that's what you got going on with

MIC2-1 44:38

and a 90% chance of meatballs. That's such a great one. I, I do like the meatballs. You do like the meatballs.

MIC1-1 44:39

like the meatballs. They

MIC2-1 44:40

we talked in the show about the house-made balsamic. Oh, yeah. And that was j- just something we had to have, and it was a really, really simple dish. Some, some aged, Reggiano Parmigiana, some drops of that, on there. some homemade,

MIC1-1 44:52

I was, I was... Look, uh, she's a quality lady and everything, and I really th- was looking forward to it, but I thought, "Can you really make a balsamic that's gonna be good as the, as good as the..." Yeah, I'm a big Aceto Balsamico fan. Sure. It was really great. It was terrific. It was really

MIC2-1 45:08

it was absolutely terrific. Uh, I think, you know, it- we started with the meatball and we finished with the chicken Parm, but of, of the things we had in the middle, my next favorite was probably the ag- agnolotti Agnolotti with the chanterelles,

MIC1-1 45:23

Oh, yeah

MIC2-1 45:24

and the three cheese mixture. Had a delicious tanginess cheese in there- Yeah from the, from the soft ripened cheese in the middle. Uh, really, really tasty.

MIC1-1 45:33

that was from the pasta ficio, you know? Yeah. Yeah,

MIC2-1 45:35

also the pasta dish Yeah. And the pasta was perfect. It was. It was

MIC1-1 45:36

just- Yeah, it was

MIC2-1 45:37

perfect and light and beautiful and melted in your mouth. I, I loved it.

MIC1-1 45:41

You know, it's funny, not having been familiar with that before, if you'd said that to me and I saw someone making pasta tuile in the dining room, I thought... I might think, "Is that..." I mean, it's wonderful to watch, but is that more about the visual, or does that really affect the quality of the food? And I was thinking that even after our interview, but it does.

MIC2-1 45:57

Well, it's different. There's, there's no question that it's different. Whether you like it more or like it less, there's no question that it was different So we also had a duck cacciatore dish, which was little disks of pasta, with duck, confit, you know, sprinkled in it, which was al- which was also very good. But that application of the pasta, it didn't sing to me the way the agnolotti did. The fresh made- Yeah

MIC1-1 46:19

vinalotti. Well, I, I want only one more dish that I wanna mention, and look, you don't hear Mark and I talking about, restaurants l- in this depth very often, but it was, it was worth the trip to Chicago. But they did, It was cute. They called it, shrimp, with garlic on a half shell. I'm like, "Shrimp doesn't have a half shell." So but what they did was they took the shrimp, and then they split the shrimp down the middle like you were gonna roast a lobster, butterflied it open, leaving it on the shell- Mm and then broiled it, and it wa- I've never seen that done before, and I can't wait to go home and try it.

MIC2-1 46:48

Yeah. It was, it was really special. I understand. There's really nothing in that restaurant that I tried that I didn't think was really

MIC1-1 46:53

Yeah, So, you know, one of the things about the restaurant is the service was fantastic from the waiter to the bartender. Everybody has the right attitude. And, uh, yeah, they were all fantastic, and they weren't pushing anything on you. And, you know, Sarah wasn't there, so that's a great testament to her. Yeah. Uh,

MIC2-1 47:09

push anything on you. And, you know, Sarah wasn't there, so it's a great testament Yeah. Uh, well, her, her chef came out. Uh, Bailey came out to the table and said hello, and it was good to see her. And, but obviously that ship is running really, really well, because when the owner's not there and the ship's still running like that, you know it's a really

MIC1-1 47:20

Yeah, Oh, one final thing we have to talk about in our trip to Chicago. It seems as though wine, uh, prices for a lot of things are way less than they are in

MIC2-1 47:30

Really did not expect to be as inexpensive. I, I, uh, I say inexpensive, as not expensive as they are.

MIC1-1 47:37

Well, well, and, uh, in her restaurant, the wine... First of all, wine lists. Wine list, the floor in New York is now 80 bucks, and you're really not gonna get

MIC2-1 47:43

really 100.

MIC1-1 47:44

100 Yeah, well, you're really not gonna get something you want until you spend over 100 bucks in New York, and that used to be 65 not too long ago Yep And the, and there are wines for 50 bucks in Chicago at nice restaurants, and 12 wines under 100 that are a really good buy. So I, I... Look, I like the whole thing. Chicago's great. I can't wait to explore more. This is a ringing endorsement. you can find out more. We'll put the details of Monteverde Restaurant, and Sarah Grueneberg, uh, up in the show notes. Tell all your friends. tell everybody about The Restaurant Guys. Spread the word. We love seeing you.

MIC2-1 48:12

really great. job, Sarah. Well done.

MIC1-1 48:14

So I am Francis Schaad.

MIC2-1 48:16

I'm Mark

MIC1-1 48:17

We are in Chicago, and you can find out more about The Restaurant Guys at restaurantguyspodcast.com.