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Uh, first item in the news today, this I think is pretty darn interesting. Uh, this is from Reuters. Um, movie theater owners faced with falling attendance are considering asking federal authorities for permission to jam cell phone reception in an attempt to stop annoying conversations during films, the head of the industry's trade group said on Tuesday. Cool. Do you ever wonder what we did before there were cell phones? Did doctors go to the movies? Did... Well- Were they allowed to go to the movies before Well, hold on a second. Here, here- Did 17-year-olds possibly wander off of school property for even a moment? Let me, let me get this out. Um, "I don't know what's going on with consumers that they have to talk in the middle of a movie," said John Fithian, president of the National Association of Theater Owners. we'll actually petition the Federal Communications Commission to remove the block on jamming cell phones for this application. I know, and why this is relevant to restaurants, is I know restaurateurs who put in a mesh in the ceiling- Mm-hmm in an attempt to inhibit cell phone reception in the restaurant. Right. Now, that's a little dicey. W- The, the guy I know that does this, and who shall remain nameless, his coat check will, will monitor your cell phone and come and get you if, if you need to answer it. If you're a doctor, if you got a kid at home- Mm-hmm if you got a sick parent. And so, you know, while blocking cell phones surreptitiously is probably not the best idea- Uh, listen. Yeah When I was a kid, if you needed to get in touch with your parents while they were out at a restaurant, your parents left the phone number of the restaurant and you called the restaurant. Mm-hmm. And the restaurant said, "Uh, emergency, Mr. So-and-So. Uh, your house is on fire." I'm I'm ama- I'm amazed at the people who will just whip out a cell phone and start talking in the middle of a dining room. I, I, I've talked to you about this before. One of the things that amazes me, and it's, and it's a whole culture now, and it's not going the right way. Our employees, okay- Mm-hmm for, for, in Cathal Lombardi one night were sitting upstairs, five of them around a little table after work, and they weren't talking on their cell phones 'cause... But they all had them out in hopes that they would either ring and they could leave and, and answer the phone or receive a text message so they could- Get a call from somebody better. Get a call from somebody better. Yeah. Okay? Whenever the cell phone is out, it's like you're waiting for something better to happen. Yeah, but l- Hi, I'm talking to you, but- But hopefully somebody better will call hopefully something better's gonna happen soon- Look, I don't care- 'cause you're horribly boring. I don't care about any of that. I don't hang out with people like that. But, um, I mean, I d- you know what I'm saying. I, I'm saying that your point is completely valid, but- Thank you for that. I'm sorry. I feel so much better. But here's, the true test of it. In restaurants, as we've discussed and as this is coming in the news again, we had an, an incident a couple of months back that just shocked me, I, I mean, really shocked me. And you're not easily shocked. And I am not easily shocked. Folks came into the restaurant, and they opened up a laptop computer. Oh, I remember these guys. Which is sort of mildly rude anyway. I mean, you got classical guitar music playing. Mm-hmm. You got a vibe going on. You got the fireplace happening. Right. It's, you know, the... And you're typing away on your computer, and you got that blu... Like, there's a shadow of you from that blue glow you get from your screen. Listen, I don't wanna eat at my desk for the exact same reason- 'cause I don't wanna hear the clickety-clack of your computer. And we certainly don't want... And I don't wanna sit next to your desk. Right, right, and the blue hue of, uh- So I'm, I'm talk- monitor I was talking to the maître d', and I thought, you know, you gotta go over there and, say something, when I realized that they're not doing work. They're playing a movie. No clickety-clack at all. No headphones, and, uh, and the, the credits to a movie begin to roll in the dining room. Da, da. See, and I, I couldn't- Da, da, da, da, da. And, and what amazes me is I went over to- Da, da, da, da, da. Enough with the music. And what I what amazes- Da, da, da, da. I went over to the table and, or, uh, s- Brian went over to the table and said- A long, long time ago in a land far away said, uh, "Excuse me, um"- Could you, uh, turn that off?" And they were- they said, "Well, no, we're watching a movie." And Brian said, "Well, you can't watch a movie in the dining room." Dinner and a movie, whole different concept. Yeah, yeah. In your house. It's great. So, um, they were really mad. Yeah. And we happened to have a private room open, and I had le- I had walked out. I had left. I'd gone to the other restaurant. and Brian said, "Listen, I have, I have the private room we're not using tonight. I'll put you in the private room. You can watch your movie." It was a Sunday night. Cause I wouldn't have done it. Much nicer than I would've been. 'Cause I wouldn't have done it. And I appreciate his- Sorry, guys. Sorry, all you moviegoer restaurant people- There'll be a charge for that ...who wanna do it at the same time. No. Anyway, so there's a new level of, of, uh, rudeness there I thought was really great. But I think, I think that the, theater owners, uh, are gonna be applying to the FCC to be able to block cell phones. I don't know that that's a great idea. But I'm always amazed by people talking over my dinner. I'm gonna s- I'm gonna say one more time. People in restaurants, I wanna make you as happy as I can make you. I wanna say yes to every single question you ask me if it's at all possible. But you can't impinge upon the other diners around you. Right. That's- Or I must step in. That's my job as the maitre d', as the owner of the restaurant, to make sure that you're not impinging on somebody else's dining experience. But that's the hard... And that's why, that's why cell phones present the restaurateur, uh, with the, with the- Mm-hmm the greatest quandary. Because I can figure out a way to make almost anything happen that you want to happen. Right. But when you put me in a situation that saying yes to you doesn't inconvenience me, it inconveniences the people in the dining room with you. Correct. Correct. You can inconvenience me all you want. And- You, you can inconvenience the other diners and, and that's why we have private rooms, you know? Mm-hmm. But if you d- but if you're not in a private room, if you're in a dining room with someone else, that, that really presents, a problem. And I think there's an appropriate way to use a cell phone, though. Mm-hmm. I mean, if your, your cell phone is on vibrate, it rings, you take a call, you pick it out of your pocket, you say, "Uh, hello. Okay, the kid's sick. I gotta come home. Great." You hang it up and you go. Mm-hmm. That's an entirely different thing. It is an entirely different thing, and I think that, that that's part of it. That there needs to be, uh, maybe, maybe it doesn't need to be black and white. Maybe there needs to be some kind of compromise in the middle, but any time it's, a rule is not black and white like that- you have issues with people overstepping. And what, what we do, and I know that a lot of restaurateurs have emailed in about- Mm-hmm with questions about this very thing to us at restaurantguysradio.com. What we have on our menus, it says, "Please refrain from using cell phones in the dining room." Right. And that way, you know, if someone's really discreet about it, we don't say anything. Yeah. But if someone whips out their phone and starts talking to their Aunt Sally about the salad, we go over and say, "You know, um, excuse me, would you mind-" Right "coming into the bar with me?" "You'll never believe where I am right now!" And, uh- That's, that's, that's a quote. But if you have it on the menu, and you have it as a black and re- and white rule, you can, you can cut somebody a break and, and enforce it when it becomes onerous. Sure. We have, uh, coming up with us after the, in the next segment, Rick Tramonto from Tru Restaurant in Chicago, one of the best chefs in America. Stay tuned. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, Everybody, welcome back. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, and our guest today is Rick Tramonto. Rick is one of the most prominent chefs in the United States. He's also author of several books. He's cooked to great acclaim in New York, Europe, and Chicago, where he wears many toques, including the toque at Tru Restaurant, where he is a chef partner. Um, Tru's one of the top restaurants in the country- Wow and, uh, last night was nominated for an Outstanding Service Award by the James Beard Foundation. Welcome to the show, Rick. Hey, Rick. How are you? Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I I love the conversation with the cell phone. I mean, the, uh, the whole balance of what you guys were talking about it's, it's, it's, it's so true, all of it, is, uh... You know, I, I never mind anybody. We, we have that on our menu, you know? no cell phones or be discreet and, and if you need to make a call home quietly, peacefully, and check on your kids or the sitter, it's, you know, it's never a problem. But, uh, the people that wanna have these loud and, you know... And I never could understand, like, if you're gonna do it, why do you have to engage the other three tables around you? Right. Why does it have to be such a loud conversation? I don't get it myself either, but it, it is... There are people who come to the restaurant and, you know, you're a destination restaurant in the country. Do, do you find that people come there and they sort of call their friends from the table and discuss the dinner they're having? 'Cause once in a blue moon, I'll get that. Those, "Oh, and now they're bringing out the foie gras." I'm like, "Put the phone down. Eat the foie gras." I, I, I guess, I mean, I've seen it a few times, but not as much as just the- the casual call. I mean, it's just strange. And we have a lot of... We're, we're right in Streeterville, which is right across from Northwestern Hospital, so we get a lot of doctors and lawyers and surgeons and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, and, but they're all so cool about it. I mean, they all excuse themselves from the table. Most of their phones are on vibrate. They go into the bar, they have their little quiet conversation, and they come back and they continue dinner. Or, you know, somebody will get up and they'll go out to the bar and they'll check on their babysitter, and they'll come back and they'll finish dinner. But, a couple times a month you get the- Mm-hmm the person that, the, the bizarre ring in the middle of a dining room and, and they... It just doesn't phase them. Yeah. It's like this bizarre ring, like the Star Wars thing. Right, right. Madam Butterfly. It's like no big deal, and you're just, you're so embarrassed for them all of a sudden. And they, they pick up the phone, "Oh, hi, how you doing?" And you can tell they're saying, you know, "What are you doing?" "Oh, I'm having dinner," you know? What are you doing? Right. It's kidding me. The... I've often wanted to go up and... I'm, I can be a little snot, and I, I'm never really snotty with the customers, but you do have fantasies in the back of your head, and I've always wanted to just write on a little piece of paper, "Shh," and fold it up and hand it to them. Well, you're a better, better man than I, 'cause, you know, I have the fantasy of going up to the cell phone and just breaking it in half- putting it on the table and walking, walking away. Like, like, I, I think we're all talk... You know, 98% of the people who come into restaurants and are using their cell phones are using them appropriately. And like you said, they're excusing themself, and they're, they're moving into the bar area or into the foyer or even frequently out of the restaurant. But I, I'm just reminded of one experience, a few years ago, as cell phones were really becoming popular, where a gentleman excused himself from his table And then he went over and stood in another part of the dining room and stood over somebody else's table and had his conversation. Unbelievable. And I thought- I, I don't wanna disturb my guests, but I don't know these people. But yeah- And like you were saying before, as far as, you know, as long as you're not... You know, I will do anything for you. Our philosophy at Tru is always cherish the customer. Mm-hmm. Meet every need, do everything you can. And, you know, usually when you use the word but, it erases everything you just said before. But in this one case, we will do everything we can, but unless it starts to affect the rest of the dining room. Yeah, that's- You know, if it starts to affect somebody else's experience that waited six weeks to get in to have dinner and, you know, you're, you know, you're bumming them out. You know, it's funny, when you talk about service, you, you... I mean, and I, I hope that you'll agree that I think the idea is you're trying to set up the systems, to, so that you can say yes as much as possible. Right. If there's something that leads to a recurring no answer- Absolutely you change the system. Mm-hmm. And you train your staff, especially your higher level staff, like your maitre d', to figure out how to say yes. Absolutely. But the one thing you c- that's where you put the, the real service professional in a... It, it's uncomfortable. It's physically uncomfortable when I have to go up to somebody and say, "Okay, listen, you got, you gotta stop that." Right. But- Your, your child can't run around, circles- Yeah around the table anymore. Yes. Right. I wish I could tell you a few na- name a few names and tell you a few stories, but it, it... I gotta tell you this one story, but I can't, I can't give up the names. Okay, that's, we'll take it. Fair enough. I can't give up the name. We'll take it. But we had this celebrity in the restaurant once that came in, and they brought their kid with them. And it was, it was so funny that you were saying this story because the husband and the wife sat at the table, and they had this, you know, long, drawn out dinner. You know, like a 10-course, 12-course, three-hour gig. And, the daughter sat there and played video games the whole time at the table at the loudest point of the video game volume that could be. You know- Ugh playing some kind of video game. she had a, you know, she had a glass of milk, and she didn't, you know, had a little fruit, and she wasn't eating. But, the parents were so comfortable being in this, you know, this environment or this experience with all these other people around them, disturbing all these other people. And so how do you- It was really difficult for my staff on how to handle it- Mm-hmm and not be rude and say... You know, you go up to them, and you say, "Excuse me, but this, you know, we can't have this," and blah, blah, blah. And, you start to walk on eggshells constantly- Mm-hmm to, to not offend, but yet you're offending the rest of the room in trying to sacrifice this one table. I'd rather not have the one table, you know. Mm-hmm. how did your staff handle that situation? My, my staff was amazing. My staff was incredibly gracious. they went up and they, they excused the, themselves, they asked the, the celebrity to come up into the bar for a second, and they had the conversation with them. and the celebrity wasn't, replying, to anything. Was going back to the table, telling the daughter to turn it off. You know, she would turn it off for a little while, then would come back on, and turn it off for a little while. you know, we call it the game. Mm-hmm. You know, they played the game until they got through their experience, And it was difficult, you know. They, you know, we ended up sending out some extra desserts and trying to comfort some of the tables around them that were aggravated. But some of the tables were in awe of who it was, so- Mm-hmm it helped a little bit, but it was still an uncomfortable situation. Sometimes it becomes a lose-lose. You just gotta kinda grin it and get through it, you know? It's very difficult to tell someone they're being rude without being rude. Right. Right. Why is that? I had, I had a, I had a, I had one table one time a long time ago say, "That table over there, we'd like to buy them desserts at a different restaurant." And I said, "I ca- I can't deliver that message, but I appreciate the sentiment." We're talking with Rick Tramonto of Tru Restaurant in Chicago. We'll be talking more with him in just a moment. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys. Hey, you're back with The Restaurant Guys, Mark and Francis of Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi Restaurants in downtown New Brunswick, and we're here talking with Rick Tramonto. Rick is one of the most acclaimed chefs in America. His, one of his restaurants, his flagship restaurant in Chicago is Tru. we were talking just before the break about, cell phones, but we were also talking about the experience we're trying to give the customer when they come to a, a really fine dining restaurant. one of the things that you write about a lot and is in, is in your press material a lot is you talk about injecting a sense of fun into fine dining, sort of traditional sense, French roots, and then injecting a sense of fun. What do you mean by that? Well, you know, the old school guard, you know, back in the day when, when I was, line cooking and growing up in the industry and traveling France and, you know, through the '70s, through the '80s, through the '90s, there's always this intimidation factor. I mean, I, you know, I grew up really blue collar, upstate New York, Rochester, New York, and, you know, I worked at Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburgers, never graduated high school, never went to culinary school. We had a very, blue collar Italian family. You know, my, my grandfather immigrated here from Naples. My mom's side was from Abruzzi. You know, very humble people. so, you know, when you walk into a restaurant, and there's, you know, four forks and three spoons and, nine glasses on the table, it becomes very intimidating sometimes. Mm-hmm. It's like, "Oh, I'm afraid I'm gonna use the wrong fork or," when you're walking into some of those environments, sometimes you just, the waiter or the captain, you know, can really set the pace and put you at ease, based on how they approach the table, how they- Or the opposite talk to you, how they have fun with you, instead of, you know, coming up, you know, with this formal, stiff. So I think a lot of it had to do with really trying to, and, and, you know me and Gale would always joke, you know, we're not French. We don't pretend to be French. We're, young Americans that have, have studied the culinary arts our whole life, you know, and we want our personality to, not only come through on the plate but to come through with service. And how do you do that? We have to adopt a culture, and you have to embrace your staff and give them the confidence and the trust and back them up, um, to express that confidence. Now, there's obv- obviously always a line of how to read the table is what we call it. If there's a business- Well, and, and when we come back after the news, I wanna talk about how to put customers at ease because you know what? I'm a fireman's kid from North Jersey. First time I walked into a fine dining restaurant, I was looking for a job, and I got one. So it sounds like it's a great American success story, as there are a lot of great American suc- success stories in restaurants. Rick is one of the most prominent chefs in America. He's also an author of several books, and he's cooked to great acclaim in New York and Europe, and now in Chicago, where his flagship restaurant is Tru, where he's the chef partner. Rick, we were talking before the break about how sort of it's a, defining part of your mission to put fun back in, into fine dining, to inject fun into fine dining. And, and that's, you know, you create this beautiful place. You create this beautiful thing. But when people walk in the door, you wanna make them feel comfortable and get them to enjoy it. How do you do that? I mean, do you have any guiding principles you think that others don't? Any innovations? Well, you know, again, it c- it comes down to, to hospitality. we're always trying to be hospitable in a way where it shows mine and Gale's, you know, personality as far as, you know, we're not stiff people. We're fun. You know, you want people to relax. but we also, we're very, uh, sensitive to reading the customer. If you're there on a business dinner and, you're trying to cut the deal, you may not wanna play with them so much. You may not wanna hang around them so much, you know. Um, you gotta kind of read that table. If there, if there's a first date going on, you know, compared to a 25th wedding anniversary that's going on, you know, where people are, are more comfortable. I mean, you just gotta, you gotta feel good about reading your table number one, but you also have to never, never, ever, assume or talk down to people you know, use your personality to break in, to find common ground to talk to them about, whether it's food, whether it's wine, whether it's kids, whether it's life. And engage, um, or you know, if they choose not to engage, then you gotta read that. Um, but as far as having fun, technical service is technical service. You need to be professional. Right. Things need to be technically flawless constantly. but there, there's no reason because your technical, skills are, are, are amazing that you need to be rude or pompous or, or stuffy. Well, you- So, you know, laugh, smile, have some fun. work with, work with the table. You know, Jennifer Iannolo article that I was reading about you, you were quoted as saying, "You know, we're having a blast. Just share with us. Share that, share that fun." Share the blast. Yeah. I mean, the, you know, it-- another thing that I think is, is very interesting is, We have a couple of restaurants, and we do a lot of consulting, but we have a couple of restaurants that are our own. We have a, a slightly more, more casual,, Italian-American concept and a, and a fine dining, uh, American table service restaurant here in Jersey. And, and we've been here for f- for 15 years, and one of the things that I think is so interesting, one of the many reasons people are drawn to the restaurant business, it is because it takes people who wanna take a non-traditional path. Mm-hmm. And it lets a lot of people find a home. I think it was great. I mean, you're a very successful businessman. You're one of the most respected chefs in the country, and you didn't graduate high school, and you didn't go to college. It's still a, a profession where apprenticeship and learning by doing is viable. What is it- Absolutely. What is it you think about this business that attracts non-traditional learners? 'Cause obviously you're a very intelligent guy, and, and Patrick O'Connell from Inn at Little Washington, very intelligent guy. What, what do you think it is that attracts non-traditional learners to this business? Well, it's that, it's that cross between art and science. I mean, you know, it's, it's such a, um, such a hands-on skill. I mean, you're, you're learning anatomy by breaking down animals, and, and people are able to, you know, show you. It's really hard to, it's hard to do that in a surgeon's office. Well- Um, you know, when you do- Well, and you're not allowed- open heart surgery. "Here, let me show you how to take this." And you, and you, and you're not allowed to cook things when you're, when you're in a doctor's office. You're not, you're the- Right. So, I mean, I, I think there's a lot of fun stuff that y- you're using your hands. You're, you're, you're definitely learning, you know, butchering skills, and somebody's showing you hands-on how to do that. If I plate, a, a roasted piece of salmon and you plate a roasted piece of salmon, the beautiful part of it is that they're gonna be different. They're gonna You know, everybody has a palate, everybody has an opinion, everybody kind of sees and tastes colors and, and flavors, you know, differently. there's so much creative ability that can, and, and skills that go, go into that, like painting. If, you know, if I give you a canvas and six paints, then, you know, you're gonna paint something totally different than I am, but, you know, they're, they're both gonna be great 'cause they're both gonna be ours. So I mean, I, I love that about food. I love that about what people are trying to achieve with that. But then the flip side of it is it really is very stimulating on the business side, food costs, labor costs, you know, leases and locations and, you know, there's, there's that whole, whole world of it. And, and, and there's, you know, the, the therapy. I'm, I'm more of a, you know, I joke I'm more of a therapist than anything. I mean, you know, you have, you have so many personalities in the kitchen. You have so much, so many dynamics that you're working with, so many cultures and, um, walks of life and, and, you know, it's just, it just blows me away every day when I walk in and see people that are second career people that have made their money or have done certain things in their life and, and now they're in a kitchen peeling carrots in the back of my kitchen. Mm-hmm. It's like, "Wow," you know, I mean, how cool is that? We, we actually have- It's like their passion is just driven we have somebody like that working for us right now. You know, uh, I, I, I think that two s- things happen with, and one of the re- I love, first of all, I love, I love dealing with all the customers. I love seeing so many different people in the course of a day, and I think that a lot of people have a lifestyle where they see the same nine, 12, 15 people every day. In the restaurant, that's just not. I mean, you, between purveyors and employees and customers, wherever you are in the restaurant business, you, you see- Hundreds of new people every day people. But, but one of the things that I think is interesting is there's a positive side to the type of person that's drawn to the restaurant business. Like I remember that when Mark went to work for an insurance company, five days, Rick. He lasted five days. It was nine days, just the problem was that three of them were Labor Day weekend. So. And he sat in the cubicle and thought- I was a, I was a statistician for an, insurance company for nine days. Uh- he sat in a cubicle and said, "It's just a cubicle, but I felt it was collapsing in on me." Um, and so that was five days. Um- Nine days. But you, you have the kind of person who, who needs to not be in an office and needs to be moving around, but I, I find there are also self-destructive types can, can- Mm-hmm can come into a restaurant environment as well, and part of our job, and I'm sure part of your job, and I'm curious for your input on that, is to, that very energy that drives the best, fastest line cook i- in a lot of people can go awry and just they can spin out of control 'cause they're out at night, there's alcohol around, it's crazy energy. Do you find that- Lots of energy and emotion too in restaurants do you find that the, Kitchen Confidential sort of vibe i- is something that you need to battle? Absolutely. A- absolutely. I mean, you know- my story is, you know, it's hard to, there's, when I have enough time to, to, to go through it, but I mean, there, there's so much of that that reeks in there. It's, it's a refuge place for a lot of kids. It's a, you know, for me, I was, you know, my, my dad went to prison when I was young, so I was an only child, and I, I didn't graduate school, and it was the only place that I could go to that I could get a job. I mean, it was 1979. It was like I could be a garbage man, I could be a cook, I could be, you know, a drug addict, I could be a drug dealer, I could, be a gas station attendant. I mean, you know, let's face it, guys, the, the choices were very slim at what direction I was gonna go in. My life was really screwed up. The one thing that I knew is, is that I could cook because in, in my culture, in my house where I was growing up, it was very, it was a very comforting place. So I think it draws a lot of those people to that, and you need to, again, you need to help. You're, you're asking how to harness some of that energy and how to not let them spin out of control and go out all night every night and, and go crazy because it's so easy and accessible to do that. Well, that's where some of the nurturing and the, and the mentoring come in, where you have to, you know, you kind of got to wrap your arms around some of these guys and some of these gals and, and really kind of mentor them and say, "You know what? This is a very lucrative business. You have a great opportunity here to, be very successful in a creative field that pays really well these days," which back then, again, it was very blue-collar. There was no celebrity chefs, there was no Food Network, there was none of that stuff, so- You know, you, you bring, you bring up a point that's pretty, that's pretty good, that I think is great and one of my favorite things, is we, we hire a lot of people who are 18, 19, 20 years old, and they work for us for three, four, five, six, seven, eight years, and you can really play a role in this. There's a lot of mentoring relationships that happen in the restaurant business, and I think- Absolutely I think people look for a certain kind of closeness. It is, it is different than any other business in that way. It's very visceral. Now, I just want to ask you, we only have a couple minutes left in the segment, but y- I, I'm really curious about, you, um, do some work with, uh, Nestle, Sunkist, and some, some, some large companies. What do you bring to them? What do they want from you? What do they want from me? They want, they want ideas, they want passion, they want like Carlotta and some of the stuff we, that, you know, some of the endorsement deals and some of the big companies that I work with. You know, they, they seem to call me because, you know, a lot of these, a lot of these market researchers and a lot of these advertisers and a lot of these people, they start at the, the high level of, of cuisine and they kind of try to help create things that'll trickle down to the, to the supermarkets and into the homes. So, you know, if we can help in those areas, I'm, I'm all about that because I, I'm all about trying to, help people cook better food and more quality food at home without having to go out to the, to the restaurants all the time. And, and believe me, that's, that's somebody who owns, you know, three, four restaurants and, and I, I love people to go out to the restaurants, don't get me wrong. But I also think that home and family and, and bringing people back to the table and at, at their home but cooking great stuff is very important. we agree 100%. We talk a lot, we talk with chefs and restaurateurs and bartenders and sommeliers and the like, but we also talk a lot with farmers and people who produce great food. And, and, you know, great taste and great food is revolutionary. It's meant, whether it's home or, or, or in a restaurant, to be shared with people, and I think that's where we, where we all agree, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And, sometimes I feel it's a dying, it's dying and it breaks my heart, especially growing up the way I grew up, and I'm, I'm assuming a lot of your listeners grew up, Sunday pasta, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and a family coming over and holidays, and especially in, in for me, the Italian, culture. I mean, there's so much that happens around the table other than arguing, screaming, and fighting. You know, it's, it's a positive- Yeah, yeah it's a positive thing. But we can't, we can't ignore the arguing and screaming and fighting, uh- when it goes around the table because- We did design a whole restaurant around it, though 'cause, 'cause the, 'cause the Irish and the Italian have that in common. You just have better food. Rick, we're coming to the end of the show. I wanna thank you for taking the time to talk with us. You've been spectacular, Rick. Thanks very much. Thank you, guys. You guys were a blast. It's been- Thanks so much it's been fun. Rick Tramonto, Tru Restaurant, Chicago. Hope you've enjoyed the hour listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Shaw. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are The Restaurant Guys,