The Restaurant Guys
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The Restaurant Guys is one of the original food and wine podcasts, launched in 2005 by restaurateurs Mark Pascal and Francis Schott.
With roots as a daily radio show, the podcast features in-depth conversations with chefs, bartenders, winemakers, authors, and hospitality professionals—offering the inside track on food, cocktails, wine, and restaurant culture.
New episodes and vintage conversations because the best stories, like the best bottles, age well. Expect insightful, opinionated, and entertaining conversations about food, wine, and the finer things in life.
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The Restaurant Guys
Martini Expo 2026 | Vol. 2: Colin Asare-Appiah, François Monti & Ryan Maybee
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Recorded on location at the Martini Expo in Chicago.
Why This Episode Matters
- Colin Asare-Appiah takes The Guys inside Ajabu, the cocktail and spirits festival connecting bartenders across Africa and the wider cocktail world, and discusses Black Mixcellence and the Black voices too often missing from cocktail history.
- François Monti explains why vermouth deserves far more respect than the neglected bottle at the back of the bar and how Madrid’s cocktail culture changed the way he thought about both vermouth and the martini.
- Ryan Maybee traces the unlikely revival of J. Rieger & Co., from a pre-Prohibition Kansas City whiskey brand to a modern distillery and hospitality destination, and explains why their American gin deliberately looks to classic London dry tradition.
The Conversation
Colin Asare-Appiah talks about co-founding Ajabu, created to spotlight the ingredients, bartenders and rapidly developing cocktail cultures across the African continent. The conversation turns to his book Black Mixcellence, the importance of recovering Black contributions to cocktail history, the enduring legacy of Tom Bullock and the Pornstar Martini created by his late friend Douglas Ankrah. Colin also explains why he sees the martini as a timeless drink—and why his choice between gin and vodka depends on what’s on the table.
Belgian-born, Madrid-based writer François Monti joins The Guys for a deep dive into vermouth. He explains Spain’s culture of drinking vermouth on its own, his journey from Belgian beer to cocktails, and Madrid’s long history of serious cocktail bars. The conversation eventually becomes unexpectedly personal when Mark explains why he disliked his early martinis: old vermouth or virtually no vermouth at all, and the fresh bottle that finally convinced him that vermouth could be delicious.
Ryan Maybee tells the story of discovering the forgotten J. Rieger & Co. whiskey brand while researching the history of a Kansas City hotel and ultimately helping bring it back to life. He recalls the visit to Milk & Honey that changed his career, describes the easygoing Midwestern hospitality he brought to Manifesto, and explains the historical use of sherry in Kansas City whiskey. The Guys taste Rieger Gin before Ryan discusses the freedom of American gin, why his own version deliberately embraces London dry tradition, and the classic martini experience that showed him just how much presentation matters.
Guest Bios
Colin Asare-Appiah is a Ghana-born, London-raised bartender, drinks industry veteran and co-founder of the Ajabu Cocktail and Spirits Festival in South Africa. He is co-author of Black Mixcellence: A Comprehensive Guide to Black Mixology.
François Monti is a Belgian-born spirits and cocktail writer based in Madrid. His work has appeared in publications including Punch, and he is the author of 101 Cocktails to Try Before You Die.
Ryan Maybee is a bartender, restaurateur and co-founder of J. Rieger & Co. in Kansas City. He previously opened Manifesto and has played a significant role in the development of Kansas City’s modern cocktail culture.
Timestamps
00:00 — Back at the Martini Expo: three more conversations from Chicago
02:30 — Colin Asare-Appiah and the Ajabu cocktail experience
09:30 — Black Mixcellence, Tom Bullock and recovering Black cocktail history
17:00 — The Pornstar Martini, the cocktail canon and Colin’s martini philosophy
22:30 — François Monti: from Belgian beer to Madrid cocktail culture
28:30 — Why vermouth is more than a martini ingredient
34:00 — François’ martini revelation—and Mark’s problem with bad vermouth
39:00 — Ryan Maybee: resurrecting J. Rieger & Co.
50:30 — American gin, London dry tradition and Ryan’s martini moment
Info
Martini Expo
Colin Asare-Appiah — Ajabu Cocktail and Spirits Festival
Book: Black Mixcellence: A Comprehensive Guide to Black Mixology
François Monti — 101 Cocktails to Try Before You Die
Writing: Bottoms Up
Ryan Maybee — J. Rieger & Co., Kansas City, MO
Oct 23, Friday - Winemaker Dinner w/ Neri Capponi of Villa Calcinaia Winery
Oct 26-31 - Spooky Bar
Oct 27, Tuesday - Robert Simonson book signing cocktail party
More info - https://www.stageleft.com/events/
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Reach Out to The Guys!
TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com
Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left and Ka Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.
FrancisSo on the show today, we have three more super interesting guys that we pulled aside and spoke with at the Martini Expo in Chicago. We have Colin Asare-Appiah. Colin Asare-Appiah wrote Black Mixcellence, which is an amazing book. It's tremendous. We love it. And he is intimately involved with Ajabu, which is the African cocktail festival that's taking Africa by storm. We spoke with Francois Monti. Francois Monti is a Belgian spirits writer who's a vermouth expert, and he wrote the wonderful book 101 Cocktails to Try Before You Die. And then finally, Ryan Mabee from Rieger Distillery and the many bars and restaurants attached to the distillery. These guys are super fun and interesting, so. Uh, each of them were interesting- Yeah in different ways, right? Yeah. Which, it was a lot of fun. It's definitely why you go to an event like that. I mean, it, it is wonderful to travel around the world and meet people, but this was a nice, you know, I call it a pro-am. A lot of consumers were there, a lot of just super interested cocktail enthusiasts, but some of the makers of gin and makers- Mm of vermouth and best bartenders from multiple continents all in one place. And the thing about it is it's still kinda small enough you can actually find these folks and have a conversation with them at a party. Yes. For, for me, one of the things I really like about it is, it's twofold. I get to connect with people I know and don't get to see enough anymore. Mm, mm. You know, and then there's a guy like Ryan Maybee that I never met before- Yeah ...until this, until this festival. really interesting guy who, you know, has, Rieger Spirits and, we tasted some stuff that was amazing, and we're gonna bring into our restaurants now. that's to me what it's all about, you know, the, a little bit of the old, a little bit of the new, mix them together. And, Colin was very cool to talk to. Yeah. Because frankly, I don't know much about Ajabu. Yeah. But I wanna go to Africa- to the cocktail festival in Africa. I mean, he's bringing it, this whole thing to a new continent- Yep which is very exciting to talk to. So I hope you guys find it as interesting as we do, and we're about to go there right now. Back to Chicago.
Speaker 7so our
MIC3our next victim on the couch at the Martini Expo is, uh, Colin Asare-Appiah. He's a long time and highly influential figure in the cocktail and spirits industry. Um, he was born in Ghana, raised in London.
Speaker 7began his career in
MIC3in the British bar scene. He became the first cocktail guide to the BBC Good Food Show, and at 22, he co-founded the London
Speaker 7of Bartenders He's
MIC3He's the co-founder of Ajabu, a cocktail and spirits
Speaker 7in
MIC3South Africa, which is all the rage. Everyone's talking about that. And his excellent new book, he's co-author of Black Mixcellence: A Comprehensive
Speaker 7to Black Mixology.
MIC1Colin, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 6you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. We appreciate you. Appreciate it.
Speaker 5I,
MIC1I I really wanna start with Ajabu. Yes. I mean, it seems to be just literally took Tales of the Cocktail by storm
Speaker 5year.
Speaker 6Yep.
Speaker 5And, uh, you
MIC1know, everybody's talking about
Speaker 6Everybody's talking about it. And I'd love to tell you more about it. but before I do, as soon as I say one, two, you say Ajabu. one, two. Ajabu.
Speaker 5Ajabu.
Speaker 6One, two. Ajabu. Ajabu Brilliant. Ajabu
MIC2Ajabu means
Speaker 6And amazing- It's a great word in Swahili. I love it, And it's a cocktail festival that I started with my, co-founder, Mark Holmes. Uh, we've been friends for years. Uh,
MIC2years.
Speaker 6we, uh, fell in love actually and became friends over a, a cosmopolitan 'cause he said, "Colin, you make me the best cosmo ever." I should have told Toby sh- knew that. Yeah.
MIC2Actually, that, his, that his cocktail
MIC1should have told Toby you
MIC2helped build one of my, long-lasting, uh, friendships and relationships.
Speaker 5I just need to let you know-
Speaker 6Yes
Speaker 5I realize the cosmopolitan has led to some of my shortest relationships as
MIC1relationships
Speaker 5well,
MIC1So,
Speaker 5so...
MIC1so... Yeah,
Speaker 6Yeah, that too. Yeah,
Speaker 7yeah.
Speaker 6That part. Yeah. That too. And, uh, and has led me to some, uh, really early nights.
Speaker 7Yeah.
Speaker 6cause they, they are known as creepers, those cosmos.
MIC3Yeah, they are. It's innocent looking It's
Speaker 6are. And it's innocent looking. Come on. Yeah.
Speaker 7Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6But Ajabu, is, uh, I was saying, was started by, Mark And, myself, uh, really to shine a light on the amazing, uh, things that were happening on the African continent.
Speaker 7Yeah,
Speaker 6As we all know, Africa is a continent, not a country.
Speaker 7Yes.
Speaker 654 different countries- Yes one of the largest land masses on the planet. Right. And the diversity and the rich tapestry of ingredients, flavors are abs- and the people are absolutely magnificent, So we wanna shine a light on it. So the idea was that we would bring some of the best in the world-
Speaker 7Yeah
Speaker 6and bring some of the best in, on the African continent to Cape Town and Jo'burg to celebrate the art of the cocktail.
Speaker 7So what i- is the state of the cocktail culture
MIC3in,
Speaker 7Town and different countries in Africa? And uh, is part of
MIC3of what you're doing to celebrate the cocktail culture that's there, and part of what you're doing to bring cocktail
Speaker 7to the places where it isn't prominent in Africa?
Speaker 6Uh, yeah. I mean, cocktail, Cocktail com, culture is available in a majority of um, countries in Africa.
Speaker 7Okay.
MIC2They're all at
Speaker 6levels of growth. Same as in Europe- Sure same as in South America- Sure same in the
MIC2the Americas. And the beauty of it is we're catching
Speaker 6all the cocktail
MIC2cultures at different stages of their progression, and people are really bringing all of their
Speaker 6experiences to bear. Exactly.
MIC2And they're highlighting And showcasing
Speaker 6what they do best. And
MIC2what I love is we have, Uh, bartenders coming from Ghana, from Nigeria, from,
Speaker 6um,
MIC2here at Nai- Nairobi, for example. Um, recently, we just had a call saying that we're gonna be having bartenders
Speaker 6from, um, Morocco as well- Wow which is gonna be the next- Perfect which is
MIC2is the next place of the World Cup. So
MIC3so, what was the
Speaker 7year of the, of
Speaker 6the festival? Uh, to, 2023, yeah,
MIC3And so this will
Speaker 7the third
Speaker 6year?
MIC2was the first year of the Cup, of the competition? Uh, two thou- uh, 2023. 2020- 2023, yeah. And so this will be the, the- This is the third year, and we do it biannually. We do it in March, and we do it in, um, November every year. So our November
Speaker 6as
Speaker 5well.
MIC1See, I always worry about words like biannually.
Speaker 5does that
MIC1mean every other year or does that mean-
MIC2yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,
MIC3which way does that
MIC2know. I know, I know.
MIC1me up.
Speaker 7months. Every
MIC3can
Speaker 7would say that messes me up. I know. You can screw up in some- That's what I
MIC3You can screw up in English and math, and you don't know which is which. But how do
Speaker 7people find out about it? Because if somebody's driving and
MIC3or they don't have time right this time, but w-
Speaker 7they don't have time right this time, but w- w- is there a website they go to? Yeah, there's a
Speaker 6website you go to. Uh, you go
MIC2go to ajabufestival.com. And then also,
Speaker 6obviously, you find us
MIC2on social. Yeah. So
Speaker 6on social. Yeah. So Jabu Festival on Instagram, really easy- And do a lot of people,
Speaker 7do people come from America and Europe to-
Speaker 6Lots of people come from the States and
Speaker 7Europe. That's great.
Speaker 6We have bartenders coming from, uh, Europe. We've had, bartenders coming from Mexico. We had, um, Eric Garcin at Handshake when they won the Best Bar in the World.
MIC2first
Speaker 6first tour they did- Uh-huh ...was they went to Ghana, came to. us, Jabu, and then they went to Kenya, and then went back to Mexico.
Speaker 7So can we be official podcasters
MIC3the, of, the, of, the- ...of Ajabu? Can we
Speaker 7down?
MIC2Let's have a
Speaker 6All
Speaker 7right. All right. And
Speaker 6let's see. Well, we, We don't
Speaker 7have to be official. We can just be the
Speaker 6sideline there. You can just be in. yeah. yeah.
MIC2get
Speaker 6just get involved is what I'd like to
Speaker 7say.
Speaker 5Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, we've been stealing the African ingredients for our cocktails since the beginning of time.
Speaker 6Yeah, yeah, yeah. since the- beginning of, time. Yeah. I mean, if you look at things like vanilla,
MIC2Madagascar
Speaker 6for instance. Sure. I mean, a lot of um If you look at the,
MIC2If you look at ingredients in-
Speaker 6as well.
Speaker 5Yeah.
Speaker 6Juniper. Uh, ju- uh, well, juniper. The best
Speaker 5juniper- in the world though comes from Africa.
MIC2Yeah, it does. I mean, uh,
Speaker 6around, the,
MIC2juniper conversation at the moment, uh, there is a great, um,
Speaker 6juniper that's being grown in Kenya at the moment that- Oh, spectacular
MIC2is being, is doing really, really well.
MIC3well. and you...
Speaker 7everyone, we, we're alluding obviously we, we launched Procera Gin in New Jersey
MIC3at our bars,
Speaker 7a bar. Of course. Yeah, yeah. And they've got a show on Procera Gin, so- Yeah. We love Procera
Speaker 6by association, that's great. We love that. We love
Speaker 7Procera. They're great
MIC3We love that We love Procera. Yeah,
MIC2and they're great fans,
Speaker 6they're great
MIC2supporters of ours, and they're part of the A- Adobo
Speaker 6Yeah of ours. They're part of the the Jabu cocktail experience
Speaker 7family. Well, we'll put up the information in the show notes if you wanna go to the Jabu. It Sounds like a great fun trip, uh, down
Speaker 6the line. Oh, no, it's amazing. Uh, it's a week-long festival. We have seminars.
MIC2workshops. Obviously, we have
Speaker 7Love
Speaker 6it. and we have collaborations because one of the things that we've always wanted to do is, uh, we wanna connect Uh, collaborate, create, and celebrate-
Speaker 7I love it ...the
Speaker 6cocktail
Speaker 7Sounds like, well, if the celebration of
MIC3Ajabu at Tales of the Cocktail is any
Speaker 7Oh, yeah ...the real
MIC3thing is like, it's a
Speaker 7amount of fun
MIC2Yeah, exactly. We're just scratching the surface.
Speaker 6Tales. When you come and have a full,
MIC2um, immersive
Speaker 6immersive experience Ah ...at Ajabu in and honestly, it's hard to beat ...Cape Town,
Speaker 5it's- It's hard to beat
Speaker 6absolutely incredible. And also y- when you're there as well, you get the opportunity to celebrate, um, or
MIC2engage with the food and the arts, And
Speaker 6you can travel around the wine country- Mm in South Africa. It's mind-blowing. Yeah. I love it. Some
Speaker 5of the
Speaker 6best wines that you'll try. I love it. So
Speaker 5I, I- And the
MIC2the seafood,
Speaker 6oof. The,
Speaker 5the South African wine world- You know, the
MIC1first couple of wines we got from South Africa. I think were kind
Speaker 5the the more mass produced wines, and a lot of us got a, a false sense
MIC1of what South African wines are all about.
Speaker 5And now these spectacular wines from Mullinou and Matt Norris and
MIC1wonderful, wonderful producers of South African wines are showing their their faces
Speaker 5in, um- Right.
Speaker 7And not just from Stellenbosch, from Swartland and other parts of- Yeah, yeah. other regions
Speaker 5of- Really pushing ...really, really spectacular- Yeah. You're right American wine. All right.
Speaker 7so can we turn our conversation to your wonderful, beautiful book-
MIC3Yes of
MIC2Yes, of course. With Mr.
Speaker 6that you are co-author of Yes, of course.
Speaker 7So- With Mr. Miguel?
MIC3Yeah.
Speaker 7tell us about Yes Black Mixology.
MIC3in fairness to the audience, I,
Speaker 7took delivery on this book a couple of days before we came down here, Yeah and I just got to spend a couple of hours with it. It's a, it's a, it's a beautiful book- Yeah ......and it's fun to read. So tell us about the, the book and the purpose of the book and what you did with
Speaker 6it Yeah, it was born out of the
MIC2a need to have more, Black voices
Speaker 6celebrate Bla- Black voices within the industry. Uh, doing our
MIC2our research, uh,
Speaker 6know the first book written
MIC2by an African Am- American,
MIC1Am-
Speaker 6No. Tom Bullock, The Art of the Cocktail. Yeah, Tom Bullock. 1917. Yeah.
MIC21917. We had a-
Speaker 6had a- Why
MIC1had a
Speaker 6had a Tom Bullock
Speaker 5section at RM.
MIC2a whole, like, section on our menu. Exactly. What happened in 1917? We
Speaker 6seeing the, demise of the, uh, drinks industry, and of course, prohibition was starting. Yeah, yeah.
MIC3Yep.
MIC2His book
Speaker 6disappeared. Yeah. Became resurrected again during ...The m- modern cocktail renaissance
MIC2that We have now.
Speaker 6And with that, the, next African American to write a cocktail book was Dr. Jessica B. Harris, who wrote The High Hat and the Hog that you see on Netflix. Right, right.
MIC2If You haven't seen it, watch it.
Speaker 6sensational. I haven't seen it,
Speaker 5yet. Yeah,
Speaker 6yeah. watch it. It's absolutely sensational. Perfect. But she wrote a book about rums.
Speaker 7Uh-huh.
Speaker 6Then there was a long gap before you saw anyone of color write a cocktail book. Next person was Douglasankara. Mm-hmm. A dear friend of mine who created The Poolstar Martini.
MIC2Yeah,
Speaker 6bless his soul. He's no longer with us, but he created the Poolstar Martini. And also that's one of the things about, um, the Jabu. We celebrate the Poolstar Martini- Yeah because it was
MIC2inspired- Ah
Speaker 6Uh-huh in Cape Town.
Speaker 7I
Speaker 6didn't know that. And Sir Douglas- I
MIC1didn't know that either.
MIC2Yeah, so Douglas took it back to London and he
Speaker 6it in London. And of course
MIC1So for, for
Speaker 5it was done in South Africa- So for, for
MIC1our people who are not necessarily familiar with the cocktail- tell
MIC2the cocktail- Yeah, of course.
Speaker 6or with craft bartending in particular. Of course. the Poolstar Martini,
MIC2uh, is a beautiful, combination of vanilla vodka,
Speaker 6passion fruit, real, like passion fruit puree, real, passion fruit as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. of course, a little
MIC2bit of vanilla sugar. If you don't have vanilla sugar.
Speaker 6don't have vanilla sugar, obviously- you can
MIC2vanilla. You can use syrup. Uh, Yeah, You can Or vanilla syrup. Shaken hard, strained
Speaker 6into a nice martini, oversized martini glass with a side car of champagne and a half of,
MIC2um, a passion fruit to decorate and garnish the
Speaker 7and
Speaker 6i-
MIC2you- That is
Speaker 6classic. No lime. No lime- I
Speaker 7hear you. No lime.
Speaker 6on a classic Martini. So let me ask you
MIC2Star martini,
MIC3let me ask you a question. So my
Speaker 7of that is if, if If you can't get passion fruit, you I don't think you can substitute passion fruit liqueur. It doesn't work for me. You've
Speaker 6tried that? No no, no. We
MIC2we have No We have,
Speaker 6um, but in that cocktail, it's passion fruit
Speaker 7liqueur as well. Right. What I'm saying is you you, you need the passion fruit- Yeah ...the fresh passion fruit.
Speaker 6Oh
MIC2Yeah. it really helps.
Speaker 6It really, it really helps.
MIC2It adds a whole,
Speaker 6uh, unctuousness to the cocktail. Whole nother
Speaker 7thing. I agree.
Speaker 6Try spelling unctuousness after three- ...of those Polestar Martinis. I,
Speaker 7I, I wanna, I wanna, take the, uh,
MIC3one of the
Speaker 7I did read about in the book
MIC3Mark and I discovered,
Speaker 7uh, Tom Bullock, um, years ago. yeah, Like, when his book was first reprinted, how long ago? I don't know how
MIC3long ago I don't know how long
Speaker 7that was.
Speaker 5you
MIC1got Tom Bullock's
Speaker 5from Park Hills Rumble Sales, one of the books you got at Park Hills Rumble Sale. Well- In fact, when you got check, your Gentleman's Companion and-
MIC1and- all those
Speaker 5early 2000s, late 1990s.
Speaker 7But Well, I, I looked at the book, and it's an interesting book
MIC3if, to look at. I didn't
Speaker 7any of the history. I just had the book. Right. And I read the book, and it was
MIC3very
Speaker 7and I thought, "This can't be good." A lot of sloe gin and- Mm-hmm I'm like,
MIC3and the, And there
Speaker 7a lot of, um, like there is in the contemporary cocktail book, a
MIC3book, a lot of the story
Speaker 7the drink. And he served this to Jay Gatsby or whatever- Right you know, and then Richard. Yeah. It was just these cocktail recipes. And I don't know
MIC3know what inspired us, but we were like, Let's give this a shot."
Speaker 7That book, drink for drink, they're all-
MIC1Man,
Speaker 5that
MIC1made that Cohasset punch.
Speaker 5was
MIC2Punch,
Speaker 5just an
MIC1an
Speaker 5drink. yeah.
Speaker 7We were so impressed with the- book, we had, we had a three-drink section of, of, uh, Tom Bullock cocktails on our list for a while, and one was the Horse Thief-
Speaker 5Yep
Speaker 7and the Blackthorn Cocktail, which is a sloe gin. Mm-hmm. That's what it was We put him on because I had, some family that made me sloe gin in Ireland, and I was like, "All right. I gotta use this." and it was, it was the Blackthorn Cocktail, and we were like, "Holy crap." And we went through the
MIC3the rest
Speaker 7book. It's fantastic.
Speaker 6Yeah. And the thing is for someone like him as well to, uh, write a cocktail book, uh,
MIC2prior to him uh, if you could read or write, in,
Speaker 6Yeah America at that time, that could be a death sentence.
Speaker 7Yeah.
Speaker 6Yeah, yeah. And, 'cause people
MIC2people always
Speaker 6to me, "Oh, why didn't more people, uh, write cocktail books?" Because it could be a death sentence. 'Cause they weren't
Speaker 5allowed
Speaker 6to. So a
MIC2a lot of the recipes
Speaker 6passed down generationally from bartender to bartender. And then if you look at, people actually serving cocktails in the
MIC2the houses,
Speaker 6big houses- Absolutely the plantation houses, they were slaves. They were Black people- Yeah making those
MIC2cocktails.
Speaker 6And those cocktails were all handed down So when we look at things like I I, I personally think, and I one day will find the
MIC2the research to back that up,
Speaker 6things like
MIC2like the Old
Speaker 6the juleps and stuff, I think they were cocktails that were made In the
MIC2the houses, big houses, back
Speaker 6day Well- became popular and then were used in bars
Speaker 7But if you look
MIC3He really was a, uh, war emperor. He'll take you- But I, if you look at,
Speaker 7the life of Tumbler- Yeah ......he was he was
MIC3was an important bartender at the
Speaker 7right? Yes, he was. People,
MIC3He was ...people
Speaker 7that he... And he was
MIC3And he was behind a bar. He
Speaker 7in a household. Yeah. He was a great bartender.
Speaker 6Yeah, Yeah,
MIC2household. He was a great bartender Yeah, He was uh, He was also a, Pullman, and,
Speaker 6Pullman, were, basically were,
MIC2all the, Black men and women that worked
Speaker 6a lot of the railways all across the country. Yep. And
MIC2they're the
Speaker 6the ones that transferred the information
MIC2of cocktail recipes and stuff all around the
Speaker 6for so many people to try.
Speaker 7Well, and less- Um,
Speaker 6you know,
Speaker 7so- Less people think it's just a book about ancient history. You guys talk about a lot of the c- uh, contemporary Black, uh- Yeah people in the mixology world. I read, uh, we have Frankie Marshall's a friend of ours- Sure so we read Frankie Marshall's piece in there.
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 7But
MIC3But it was, it was fascinating, uh, that it,
Speaker 7takes you through the history and it's about Black mixologists today, right? E-
Speaker 6exactly. And it's, it's knitting what happened in yesteryear to what's happening now. from Cater Alexander to
MIC2to, to
Speaker 6Todd Bullock to,
MIC2uh, our modern-day, mixologists like Tiffany Barrier obviously is
Speaker 6there. Yeah. And it's really interesting, uh, when, uh, Tiffany and I were talking about, her cocktail book, because we
MIC2we also have
Speaker 6the red cocktail in the book- Right which is a celebration cocktail-
Speaker 5Right
Speaker 6uh, for, uh, the
MIC2the emancipation of slavery. Tiffany I knew
Speaker 6she was gonna write her cocktail book,
MIC2literally after ours came out, and I said, "That
Speaker 6is gonna win a
MIC2win a
Speaker 6award one day." I just knew it.
MIC2Um, ours
Speaker 6also nominated. I think we made the, uh, top four, but we didn't win that year, but that's absolutely fine. There's
MIC3still time.
MIC2But yeah, there's still time. But I really think that this
Speaker 6that this cocktail helps to, uh, sorry, the cocktail book really helps to showcase the Black story and to amplify Black stories-
Speaker 7And it's a, and it's- which
MIC2is important I think,
Speaker 6important and
Speaker 7it's
Speaker 6a super
Speaker 7well-written It is very important ...and fun book to read as well. so-
Speaker 6And it's easy, it's accessible. Yeah. Uh, w- what also one has to remember is that those
MIC2cocktails were made during the time of a
Speaker 6Pandemic, which we won't speak
MIC2about. Uh, but all of the cocktails
Speaker 6I made, I wanted to
MIC2ensure that
Speaker 6could click on Amazon or anything And Get the ingredients be able to order the
MIC2the ingredients
Speaker 6your door. I love that. 'Cause at the time we didn't
MIC2know how
Speaker 6we were gonna be cooped up for. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5a long time was
Speaker 6the answer. Yes. A
Speaker 5long time A long time was the
Speaker 6answer.
MIC2Uh, yeah. So watch
Speaker 6space. We're working on other books at the moment. Oh, great. so hopefully, um, you'll see another, uh, book from us one day.
Speaker 7All right.
MIC3All right. Well, now we have to
Speaker 7the conversation.
MIC3We are here at the Martini
Speaker 7Oh, we are ...in Chicago.
Speaker 6Yes.
Speaker 7And we wanna ask
MIC3you, uh, what you're doing here, why you think the
Speaker 7is important, and then we have Mark has a question about the martini and you.
Speaker 6Yeah. Martini's
MIC2the martini's an
Speaker 6cocktail. It's a it's a cocktail that's the benchmark of the golden era, of the previous golden era of the cocktail, and it's now,
MIC2um, in this golden
Speaker 6of cocktail culture again, And it's bringing everyone back-
Speaker 5Yeah
Speaker 6to drinking real, cocktails again. Now, with,
MIC2the expo, it's great being here.
Speaker 6been on a panel, um, with some
MIC2illustrious, folks,
Speaker 6uh, Francois Montier, Simon Fuller, and obviously Toby Cheyne who created the Cosmopolitan.
MIC2I've had some amazing
Speaker 6with cosmos. We all have.
MIC2And, uh, with that, I was
Speaker 6about the Pornstar martini.
Speaker 8Yeah.
Speaker 6Douglas Sanchez cocktail.
MIC2cocktail. He was my best
Speaker 6I grew up with him. Great. Uh, we went to college together. Uh, he was
MIC2he was an absolute idiot,
Speaker 6he is my idiot. I love him to bits. All of us loved him. Um, and he was quite a character, larger than life,
MIC2And he created a cocktail which was
Speaker 6foundationally, a cocktail that has just, so many people to drinking cocktails, which
Speaker 7is amazing. Well, I think, And, I think we wanna point out that one of the things that's really
MIC3great about this,
Speaker 7is the... If there
MIC3there was a golden age of the cocktail,
Speaker 7the platinum age of cocktail. Oh. more cocktails being made around the world today than ever. Yeah. But back then you would
MIC3would have, oh, there's the new cocktail out,
Speaker 7even in the, in the dark times, the new cocktail was the Fuzzy
MIC3Wuzzy Woo
Speaker 7or the Monkey Racer, right? But you could have a cocktail that then entered the canon because that there weren't that many people being that creative. Um, and today- It's hard to get a cocktail that enters the canon, by which I mean a cocktail that you can walk into
MIC3any bar that knows
Speaker 7doing- Sure and say, "I'll have a mind Eraser," or, "I'll have a, slow comfortable screw Up
MIC3Against The Wall" or whatever that you used to be able to do then. or the real... Like, "I'll have a
Speaker 7I'll have a Manhattan," I'll have an old fashioned." People know what you're talking about. the Port Star Martini
MIC3is in the
Speaker 5Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 7Yes. That's a very rare- Absolutely position to be in for a cocktail. And it's even bigger, you know, traveling to Europe, even bigger in Europe Oh, it's huge than it is in the United States. Yeah, yeah. It's huge. I mean, it's, it is. it just- Yeah, it's everywhere
Speaker 5now. and
MIC3to be able to get a drink in the canon.
MIC1Russian people know what you're talking about. The porn star martini is in the canon- Oh, absolutely and it is very rare- Absolutely to get it and it's even bigger, uh, you know, traveling to Europe, it's even bigger in Europe than it is in the United States. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it is.
Speaker 7and is it huge in America now as well?
Speaker 5Yes.
MIC1It's And is it huge in Africa as well? It's the dominant... I mean, for, for me,
Speaker 5the last time I went to London, it was
MIC1was the dominant cocktail.
Speaker 6was-
Speaker 5it was the dominant drink all over yeah ...from you know, top
MIC1top spot to bottom spot,
Speaker 5somebody had their version.
Speaker 6Yeah,
MIC2and we celebrate it
Speaker 6well at Java Cocktail Experience because the inspiration for the cocktail came from Cape Town, and
MIC2Cape
Speaker 6it's an inspired African cocktail. love it. So Nice we always want to share that story- Right and keep that story alive.
Speaker 7Well, you've just shared it with, you know, thousands of people here.
Speaker 6I love that, thousands of people. Yeah.
MIC3Yeah, Remember that, everyone
Speaker 5our, our last question for everybody is-
Speaker 6Oh, is what's my Instagram handle? Uh, cocktailcaller. That's
MIC2Oh, right. Okay. Sorry. So our last question for everybody is-
Speaker 6it. I need more followers, please. Give me your followers. I love it.
MIC1No, that's our second
Speaker 5question.
Speaker 6Oh, right. okay. Sorry.
Speaker 5So our
MIC1our last
Speaker 5for everybody is, what was the moment
MIC1that, you knew
Speaker 5the martini was this very important cocktail and it was, it was- central. We'll go with a classic like gin or vodka martini.
Speaker 6Sure, sure, sure. ooh, when did I know? I I, knew
MIC2that the
Speaker 6was a pivotal cocktail in our culture just because of I would say the reverence we as bartender put towards crafting- Yeah that beautiful, spirit dilution,
MIC1dilution, vermouth, bitters
Speaker 6vermouth,
MIC2bitters
Speaker 6bitters experience. To me, a martini invokes, a timelessness. You sit with a martini, it's nine times out of ten it's with food. You have sometimes snacks, uh, with it, Yeah. and it's also-- it's a bit of a truth serum because Mm it ma- makes you wax
MIC2lyrical. It
Speaker 6opens you up, and I think it's a great conversation, kind of vehicle for-
Speaker 5Did you
MIC1you have a moment when you were like, "This, this
Speaker 5it. this is
MIC2you have a moment when you were like, "This, this is a, this is a-" Yeah. This is when I was, Uh, yeah, I was working,
Speaker 6in London, actually, It was early. I was working at Beachbank in Babylon, and I'd made, um, uh,
MIC2and I'd made, um, Uh, martinis for... Ozwald Boateng
Speaker 6in. He used to drink martinis with,
MIC2a friend of his, uh,
Speaker 6singer Seal. Right. And I remember both of them would come in, order gin martinis and sit, stand at the bar, sip them, and they'd always have a great time. And yeah,
MIC2it was definitely a
Speaker 6for me like that thinking, Yeah, this, this cocktail's here It's to stay."
Speaker 7So I
MIC3I have That was
Speaker 7to be our last question, but
MIC3but I have a I have,
Speaker 7have a I
MIC3I have a, I have another one that you brought me to that Jen may edit out. But I'm a
Speaker 7martini guy. Sure. If you want a vodka martini, that's fine. But to me the martini is a gin drink. What do you think?
MIC3do you think about That
Speaker 6So for someone like myself, I, I
MIC2okay, I
Speaker 6and appreciate gin martini.
MIC3but
MIC2vodka-tini- Yeah is
Speaker 6martinis that
MIC2can allow people to
Speaker 6appreciate the category.
Speaker 7Which are you more?
MIC3more
MIC2the
MIC3to order?
Speaker 6Uh, it really depends on the
MIC2a moment and a time. If I'm
Speaker 6with, uh, friends and we're having seafood and all that kind of stuff, like oysters and so on, definitely gin martinis. Okay. If I'm doing cured meats, I really like,
MIC2my
Speaker 6my
Speaker 5vodka-tinis. What a
MIC1a wonderful answer that
Speaker 5That's amazing.
Speaker 7Colin. it's been great to
MIC3to have
Speaker 7Thanks for coming to The Restorator. Well done. guys. We're gonna head
MIC3back into the Martini Expo and
Speaker 7our next
MIC2Oh, come on. Let's go and get involved, lads. Let's get involved. All
MIC3am.
Speaker 6am. And don't forget, come tell Colin. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Colin. Love and appreciate you, all. Thank
MIC3Colin.
Speaker 6you.
MIC2Thank you. Love and appreciate you
Speaker 7Colin. all.
FM Francis REALOkay, so we have pulled someone else off the floor of the
FrancisMartini Expo
Speakerhere in Chicago. Um, all the way from Madrid, we have François Monti here joining us. He is
FM Francis REALa
Speakerauthor and writer. You can see his work in Vine Magazine,
FM Francis REALyou can see, uh, him in Punch. your blog is Bottoms Up. You are the author of
SpeakerCocktails to Try Before You Die. Best
FM Francis REALtitle ever. and we're thrilled to have you, uh, all the way
SpeakerMadrid here in Chicago,
Speaker 2François, welcome to the
FM Mark REALshow
FM Francois REALYeah, I'm very excited to be here Delighted
FM Francis REALWell, I wanna talk to you about your work and your writing
Speakerand, um, and specifically
FM Francis REALyour work on, vermouths- and other aromatized wines. Um, but you came a long way
Speakerto Martini Expo here in the
FM Francis REALmiddle of America. Why is it so important that
Speakerit's worth it for you to fly across an
FM Francis REALocean and half a continent to be here?
Speaker 4because first, martini drink ever Invented, with
FM Francois REALthe daiquiri, but, you know, let's not get into those debates. so obviously whatever, thing, you know, going around,
Speaker 4exhibition or, or, or show, whatever, Uh, is something I'm, I'm very
FM Francois REALinterested in. Also, Robert Simonson being behind it, as a writer,
Speaker 4I know
FM Francois REALhow difficult, uh, writing, Uh, and living out of your writing is, is getting, today. so any way I can support, an event a fellow writer
Speaker 4puts together, it, it's great. So it's,
FM Francois REALuh,
Speaker 4really delighted that Robert wants
FM Francois REALme, here and, Uh, also it,
Speaker 4it get, it gets me to talk about vermouth, which is
FM Francois REALsomething I like, uh, not as much as martini, but almost.
FM Francis REALUh-huh. so
Speaker 2I will say, though, as a as a Belgian of, of origin,
FM Mark REALright? You know, I, I fell in love with Belgian beer. I,
Speaker 2I wasn't thinking about vermouth when I was drinking Belgian beer. mean, you have such a rich culture of Yeah a beer culture for your, for your country. Uh, how do you get into vermouth? How does
Speaker 4So
FM Francois REALyou're right. I've always been-- I, I'm Belgian, and I've always been a big beer drinker.
Speaker 4And actually it's, it, it's
FM Francois REALfunny because, uh, a lot of the, Belgian beers are known for their strengths, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, what people don't know
Speaker 4is that strengths went
FM Francois REALup or, the,
Speaker 4market volume for high-strength Belgian beer went
FM Francois REALup because Belgian had its own version of prohibition in
Speaker 4Exactly
FM Francois REALexactly the same as the US.
Speaker 4the difference is that, know,
FM Francois REALwhat they wanted is people to stop drinking
Speaker 4spirits.
FM Francois REALand so if,
Speaker 4for example, if you wanted to
FM Francois REALbuy genever, which was, uh, like, our
Speaker 4spirit, Yeah ...a version of ...uh, you had to buy
FM Francois REALtwo bottles at a time. That the idea was the poor will not
Speaker 4drink as much the money to buy two bottles at a time. and that's how,
FM Francois REALbrewers started to think, "Well, maybe strong beer
Speaker 4would be
FM Francois REALvery welcome in this, uh, marketplace." I realize I'm not answering your question, but, you know,
FM Mark REALYou'll
FM Francis REALWe'll--
Speaker 4get there eventually. That's okay. We are,
FM Francois REALYeah, We'll
Speaker 4there. Yeah.
FM Francois REALthere no I'm, I moved to Spain my wife
Speaker 4Spanish, And uh, we settled in in Madrid, and Madrid has got such a
FM Francois REALvibrant vermouth culture. Uh, so that's part
Speaker 4part of the reason. The other part, the other
FM Francois REALpart,
Speaker 4reason is I'm really into cocktails, especially cocktails, and way you can
FM Francois REALunderstand classic
Speaker 4without vermouth.
FM Francois REALSo
Speaker 4in Spain and being
FM Francois REALin love with the cocktails made it sort of natural I would
Speaker 4move into that
Speaker 2So I have a large
FM Mark REALBelgian beer selection, which is one of the reasons I started with that
Speaker 2question. Yeah. and one of the things we
FM Mark REALlearned early on is how well those beers age, that they're bottle conditioned. And so we actually
Speaker 2one of the
FM Mark REALlargest,
Speaker 2uh, aged cellars of
FM Mark REALBelgian beers, uh, going back into the '80s
FM Francois REALSo I need to go to, uh, I need to
Speaker 4go to your restaurants and
FM Francois REALhave
Speaker 4Orval.
Speaker 2Yes. They're my favorite. Yes, we have some, some really
FM Mark REALolder Belgian beers in, in our
Speaker 2right now, and, uh, uh, it's a
FM Mark REALlovely
Speaker 2Anyway, back to the vermouth. Wait, wait. No, no, no. Yeah.
SpeakerI have a thing on Belgian beer from
FM Francis REALjust a moment. There's a funny
Speakerthat comes forget. It, uh, it's just popped into mind right we used to have a bigger Belgian a bigger aged beer cellar than we COVID, but it was always really big. And, um,
FM Francis REALyou know, Mark has always loved Belgian.
SpeakerYou know, Mark's father's and Mark his father on business trips
FM Francis REALto Belgium, and Mark speaks French, and, and, uh,
SpeakerI don't speak
FM Francis REALFrench. I speak Spanish.
Speakerand,
Speaker 4um- Perfect
Speakerand we
FM Francis REALcan both
Speakerwith you. Yeah. yeah. So
FM Francis REALum, but not understand each other while we're doing
Speakeryeah, So Which is
Speaker 4also very interesting.
SpeakerYeah, Yeah. I
FM Francis REALcould tell- Tell me I can tell all sorts of secrets. so uh,
SpeakerI, Ask away ...we're in the restaurant, we're in the restaurant one and
FM Francis REALuh, I- walk outside, and there's this, this, this kinda heavyset guy, uh, in a
Speakertuxedo looking at the menu And, uh, more heavy-set guys in tuxedos looking at the menu. and, I walk outside and I, uh, I said hello, and they didn't speak very much English at
FM Francis REALall. And I realized
Speakerthat the orchestra of the city of Bruges was
FM Francis REALplaying at the theater next door that night. And they're
Speakerof into it, so I'm like,
FM Francis REALWait right here. Don't go anywhere." And I went, I
Speakergrabbed Mark,
FM Francis REALand it all worked like a charm because in six minutes Mark is hugging these five Belgian guys outside the restaurant. They all came into dinner after the show, had big steaks. Good job, Mark. I
FM Mark REALSo
Speaker 2what you
FM Mark REALdon't know about that
Speaker 2evening-
SpeakerBecause you were speaking in French, and
Speaker 2so they knew what you were saying is I had a revelation.
SpeakerOh, what's that?
Speaker 2So
FM Mark REALwhen I lived in France,
Speaker 2people would always ask me
FM Mark REALif I was Belgian.
Speaker 2And I just presumed there was accent- Yeah or something that I was, some way I was speaking that was making perceive me. as Belgian. But when I saw all those fat Belgians from- the chamber orchestra, I thought
FM Mark REALBelgians are fatter
Speaker 2than French- That's,
FM Mark REALThat's, that's-- why they think I'm
Speaker 2Belgian. I
Speaker 4mean, look at
FM Francois REALme. I'm fine.
Speaker 4svelte.
Speaker 2I look great. You're svelte. You
FM Mark REALYou
Speaker 4might be to say the French people will think you're too, too
FM Francois REALtoo nice
Speaker 4be Belgian.
SpeakerYes. that could be. Very much so. That's...
FM Mark REALthat's-- I like your answer the
Speakerbest.
FM Francis REALthe best. All right. So, so here's another
Speakerthat's So
FM Francis REALyou talked about Spanish vermouth culture. I
Speakera lot of time in Madrid. I love Madrid. in Spain and in Italy,
FM Francis REALthere is a
Speakervermouth culture that you spoke of,
FM Francis REALand I think it's very interesting because in America,
Speakerthe only reason most who aren't in an ethnic neighborhood is the vermouth
FM Francis REALwas the ingredient that used to be in martinis
Speakeruntil people stopped putting it in martinis. and only pretended to put it in martinis. Um, but the
FM Francis REALvermouth culture
Speakerof sitting around and
FM Francis REALhaving a vermouth on the rocks in the afternoon in
Speakersidewalk café, that's a, that's a real thing that Mark does that all the time.
FM Francis REALand I, I love it
Speaker 2"So my drink to drink when I'm not drinking
FM Mark REALis a vermouth on the
Speaker 2a a little Carpano Bianco with a little twist of orange or, or some delicious vermouth"
FM Mark REALwith one large cube
Speaker 2in it and sip on it, and everybody can drink to their heart's content. But I have 18 hours of work to do,
Speaker 4I can have a, a, a whole sombrer. Yeah, there's something quite civilized about it right? Mm-hmm. I mean,
FM Francois REALthing is.
Speaker 4it's complex.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 4it's got loads of aromatics. it's that
FM Francois REALtexture, So it's very satisfying, but you don't feel like
Speaker 4you have to rush it. So we get
Speakeryou
FM Francis REALto Madrid, and you are, you're
Speakerparticipating in vermouth culture. And how does that lead you to the martini And to, and inform your writing and-
FM Francois REALOh, it's actually the, the, the the other way around. I started
Speaker 4with
SpeakerAnd then, you
Speaker 4point it was-- like
FM Francois REALsomeone asked me, are. you
Speaker 4in vermouth?" "Yes, of course, yes. ingredient in, some of my favorite you
FM Francois REALwant
Speaker 4to write a book on vermouth?"
FM Francois REALLike, "How are
Speaker 4you paying?" They say, "Oh, it's
FM Francois REALnot enough."
SpeakerOf course. "But- They never are
Speaker 4but I'll do
FM Francois REALOh,
Speaker 4Yeah.
FM Francois REALnever are. "But I'll do it." Yeah. Yeah, And, that, and then, then that's how.
Speaker 4I
FM Francois REALgot into cocktail in a weird sort of roundabout way.
Speaker 4Again,
FM Francois REALyou know, as Mark
Speaker 4was saying, of beer.
FM Francois REALbut I f- for a while, I worked for an American, uh, company for a couple of years when I was
Speaker 4much younger,
FM Francois REALand I was sent
Speaker 4work
FM Francois REALin India of all
Speaker 4Okay
FM Francois REALfor two months, very short,
Speaker 4uh, assignment. And
FM Francois REALwe were working the Eu- European hours, which, which
Speaker 4means we were leaving the office midnight. and
FM Francois REALthere was nothing to do at midnight in the city where I was, so the
Speaker 4thing I could
FM Francois REALdo was call the hotel
Speaker 4tell them, "In 10 minutes, I'm there. cosmo piston on the-" I
Speakerlove it
FM Francois REALCause it was the only cocktail I recognized the ingredients of, and th- th- they were probably not making it very well. but, you know, I had my cosmo every night, and then when I came back to Belgium, six months later, I moved to Spain, And it was like I took a bit of time off
Speaker 4deciding what I wanted
FM Francois REALto do next. And while I was thinking about what I wanted to do next, I decided, "Well, you know what? I,
Speaker 4I
FM Francois REALquite enjoyed drinking those cocktails
Speaker 4India. Who makes
FM Francois REALcocktails here in Madrid?" And so that's how it started.
FM Francis REALI love that. And who were the,
Speakerwas the state of the cocktail world in
FM Francis REALMadrid at that time?
FM Francois REALSo, it was right when I
Speaker 4into, uh, I
FM Francois REALin 2009. we were like, really on the, cusp of,
Speaker 4of, a new golden era. There
FM Francois REALwas a couple of bars doing really s- really nice create cocktails.
Speaker 4They were bringing some of those classics
FM Francois REALfrom the US and the rest of Europe. There were, uh, like, a lot of
Speaker 4back in the days looking
FM Francois REALat, you know, lost
Speaker 4Sure,
FM Francis REALsure from
FM Francois REALrecipe. But also they were starting to create their own, uh, language around, around cocktails. Um, within two years, those bars closed down. Everything went down. So the only thing we, we really had were, were, a couple of the classic bars,
Speaker 4the, the, interesting
FM Francois REALthing about Madrid and cocktails is although it's not on
Speaker 4list of people as being a cocktail Right
FM Francois REALuh, we have
Speaker 4two bars, like
FM Francois REALtwo 100% cocktail bars that are, a century old. Uh,
Speaker 4so the city's
FM Francois REALalways been a very very big on dry martinis,
FM Francis REALUh-huh
FM Francois REALUh, and gin fizzes
FM Francis REALfizzes. What,
Speaker 4are, those two cocktail bars? So, uh, uh, Chicote
FM Francois REALis actually not 100 yet, it's 95.
Speaker 495.
FM Francois REALUh, Chicote
Speaker 4and then Cock, which is, 105.
FM Francois REALC-O-Q? Cock? uh,
FM Francis REALC-O-Q?
Speaker 4Cock. Cock, Really? Yeah. That's-
FM Francois REALThey didn't know back
Speaker 4the day.
Speaker 2that that
FM Francois REALThey
Speaker 2bar would have a different meaning here in the United States. Well, yes. 100
Speakeryears ago, it, it's
Speaker 4very different. Well, I mean,
FM Francois REALit's, it, is, uh, it's a
Speaker 4that is translated now, so Okay.
SpeakerSo I, I know that about
FM Francis REALthat period of time was when kinda
SpeakerSpain a- as a country, you know, there's a whole bunch of different Spain, as a, really embraced
FM Francis REALthe gin and tonic- Yeah
SpeakerYeah in a goblet,
FM Francis REALright? That was... Was that
Speakerthat time that
FM Francis REALyou were in the cocktail world? What was happening in
Speakerwas
FM Francois REALSo I moved to Madrid in 2009, but I, I traveled a lot from 2004 because
Speaker 4that's when I met my wife. Uh, 2005, '6, '7- That's
FM Francois REALwhen you had all the, the, the first
Speaker 4running bars. Yeah, yeah The
FM Francis REALThe
FM Francois REALboom. I've, I've no shame in admitting the first time I went to
Speaker 4one of those places, I was
FM Francois REAL25 years old, still very much Belgian, drinking beer and stuff like that.
Speaker 4So I, I wasn't really into
FM Francois REALthat world. And, you
Speaker 4and
FM Francois REALthere was this bartender who wanted to explain to me this
Speaker 4amazing gin that he had, and he put me like a little sip, and I saw it. It was a sh- a sh- shooter glass that just went And
FM Francois REALpop.
Speaker 4he looked at me
FM Francois REALlike,
Speaker 4like, "What
FM Francois REALhave you done? What have you done? This gin is made with water from
Speaker 4yeah.
Speakeryeah.
FM Francis REALAnd I
Speaker 4And I said-
SpeakerFrom the
Speaker 4melted glaciers of
FM Francois REALYes, exactly, and it was the first time when I thought, "Oh, there are people who are doing this
Speakernow people are taking this seriously." And
FM Francois REALlittle did I know that a few years later I would be the one saying, "Don't do
SpeakerYeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2in drinks.
SpeakerAll right, so can I ask a question this time? Sure, go ahead. All right,
FM Francis REALan
Speakerdrink, a historical drink. Um, but there's a time, when- In each of our lives if you're serious about cocktails where the martini enters your consciousness- Mm and you're like, and
FM Francis REALyou have a martini, and you're like, "Oh, wait,
Speakeris..."
FM Francis REALAnd it may not be your first martini,
Speakerit may be your first martini. But it's a martini where you're like, "Oh, I
FM Francis REALit. I
Speakerget it. I get it. this is, uh, Important. important. This is foundational." Did you
FM Francis REALhave such a moment?
Speakerif so, can you tell
FM Francis REALus about it?
Speaker 4I don't
FM Francois REALknow if it was foundational, but the,
Speaker 4like the first time I really took martini seriously was when I moved
FM Francois REALto Spain and, and went
Speaker 4that hunt of, you know, cocktail bars. and
FM Francois REALit's this place, it's still
Speaker 4and it's this place. It's still open today. It's not one
FM Francois REALyears old it's only 37.
Speaker 4Uh, it's called- three six. It's called, uh, El Diego.
FM Francois REALand, and the, the owner who sadly passed away a few
Speaker 4ago, sons are, the owner
FM Francois REALused to work
Speaker 4for Chicote, the
FM Francois REALguy who has
Speaker 4100 years old bar that's still open in town. real school
FM Francois REALin a way, and they were
Speaker 4this
FM Francois REALbone
Speaker 4dry martinis. And
FM Francois REALthat's probably the first time I
Speaker 4the first time I thought,
FM Francois REALI, I prefer vermouth heavy on the ver- um,
Speaker 4dry martinis heavy on vermouth, but still, that's the first time I thought, "Oh, wow,
FM Francois REALdry
Speaker 4Martini,
FM Francois REALis something serious."
Speakeryeah, it is the adult drink. it is not the, gateway drink. It's not the drink that you have when you're 17. No,
Speaker 4no, no, no, no, no. it
Speakerwhen- It's the one where you're like, "Oh, wow."
FM Francois REALWe were talking about this So earlier today. I was, I was uh, moderating a round table on the other tinis, et cetera.
Speaker 4But the first question I asked him was Simon F- Forthgin,
FM Francois REALGin,
Speaker 4Colin,
FM Francois REALuh, Azare
Speaker 4used to work at, London and is now with Bacardi, and Toby Cecchini, so... Sure. and question I asked them is your first memory of a dry martini, and then
FM Francois REALIt was not a b- a positive experience. They were like, "Oh,
Speaker 4what is this thing?" Really?
FM Francois REALYeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was so,
Speakerbecause-
Speaker 2Oh, I remember not liking martinis when I first had them. I remember that.
SpeakerI remember being a bartender at the Friar
FM Francis REALand the Peach, and, um,
SpeakerI was, I like I saw the guys who drank the martinis, and then they used to...
FM Francis REALf- the, There, were little martini glasses
Speakerwhere they
FM Francis REALgot in that phase where they, they were like nine-ounce
Speakerglasses- Yeah that was, was awful. I never understood that like fill the martini
FM Francis REALall the way up to the very rim
Speakerthe waiter would have to spill it while carrying it to you, and then like people would like leave it on the table and bend down to of
FM Francois REALI
Speakernever understood
Speaker 4that. How do you? Well, I- I'm,
FM Francois REALagain, I'm Belgian
Speaker 4and the Dutch and the Belgian have
FM Francois REALgot the same
Speaker 4of
FM Francois REALof ritual where
Speaker 4where if you
FM Francois REALorder a beer, and with the beer you have
Speaker 4of
FM Francois REALglass of genever. And the glass of genever will be to the rim, And you, are meant to do-- go like this
Speaker 4this and drink
FM Francois REALa
Speaker 4it down. it's like a reverence.
Speaker 2It's Like a reverence. It's like having to bow to the drink.
FM Francois REALYou bow to it. Yeah, you, you
Speaker 4to the- I like it you
FM Francois REALbow
Speaker 4the, the, I
FM Francois REALthe night that is only getting started and you know, you know you
Speaker 4know. how it's going to go.
FM Francis REALI didn't
Speakerknow that, I,
Speaker 2I think Francois made that up, just so
FM Mark REALyou know. I
FM Francois REALNo, it's a real ritual.
FM Mark REALwish.
FM Francis REALwe bartended at the same bar, uh,
SpeakerMark and I, and there'd be the old guys, they'd be like old insurance guys or old pharmaceutical executives and the, like, the guys who were kind of a little dated, I guess would, would be now the, we'd call the Mad Men aesthetic, but it was- Mm-hmm they were sort of unfashionable,
FM Francis REALbut they was like, I don't know, there was something about it, and they
Speakerwould order martinis, I
FM Francis REALhad a reverence for it
Speakerbefore I tried it, which is why I think I liked it.
Speaker 2I, I gotta tell you though, and, to our point of this conversation, I didn't enjoy my first martinis,
FM Mark REALand I'll tell you why I didn't
Speaker 2enjoy them, 'cause I had two choices, and the choices were a very dry martini, which is not
FM Mark REALthe martini I
Speaker 2want. Mm-hmm. Okay? Still to this day, I don't want a super dry martini. Or two, have a martini. with a bottle of vermouth that's two years old that's sitting in
FM Francis REALopen
Speaker 2opens for two years, yeah because, because everybody's having the tiniest little splash of vermouth. And so frankly, as a young bartender- Of course I thought vermouth was terrible. Yeah.
FM Mark REALAnd I... That was my impression of vermouth. So the
Speaker 2was either gonna be made with terrible vermouth or bone dry- No vermouth
FM Mark REALThat's not
Speaker 2I wanted. So it wasn't until, frankly, the Duckhorn,
FM Mark REALvermouth that we had way back
Speaker 2and this-
SpeakerDuckhorn Winery came out with it. They were ahead of their time 'cause it didn't work, and they discontinued it. They made a vermouth in America, and it was called King Eider Vermouth, and it was not exactly a great vermouth, but it was new and fresh and bright, and you'd get a good bottle of it, and it was from Sauvignon
Speaker 2Blanc. It was low in tannins. And we would bring it quickly
FM Mark REALenough that it w- stayed fresh
Speaker 2and you know, and, and it was that for me. that, was
FM Francois REALit. was a- aha
Speaker 2Moment, right? Vermouth isn't disgusting. Yeah. Vermouth is delicious.
FM Mark REALthat was
Speaker 2me what changed.
Speaker 4We've been working together behind a bar for 40 years. I didn't know that was his moment.
SpeakerI never asked him that
FM Francis REALquestion. I just
Speakerjust found out tonight. Anyway, it's been, uh, great to have you. Thanks for flying 5,000 miles to come to the Martini Expo.
Speaker 2Well, thanks for flying 5,000 miles to be on the Restaurant Guys and come to the Martini Expo. Yeah. That's when
FM Francois REALI saw,
Speaker 2the,
FM Francois REALwhen I saw the invitation to the podcast, I knew I'd made the, the right decision coming to Chicago for the
SpeakerI love it. Well,
FM Francis REALwe're gonna go and have a couple
Speakermartinis. Oh, yes. Stop
FM Francis REALtalking about them and start engaging
Speakerthem.
FM Francis REALSo stick with us. We'll be back on the other side. You can always find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com.
FM Mark REALMartini time
Speaker 10Our next victim at the Martini Expo is Ryan Mabie. Ryan is the co-founder of J. Rieger Company Distillery, which also has a bunch of restaurants on site. They are from Kansas City. Um, he, J- he was named Bartender of the Year by Imbibe Magazine, which is a magazine we love, of course. He's been featured everywhere from Esquire to Vogue. His creations have shaken their way into cocktail history. He's competed on global stages, launched the Paris of the Plains cocktail festival, which we wanna talk about, Mm-hmm. uh, and has really helped to shape Kansas City's cocktail culture, and done some pretty cool stuff out in the middle of the country
MIC1Ryan, welcome to the show
Speaker 16Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 10listen, we, love your story. and we love the bar and distillery concept together. Yeah. Uh, how did that come about? Actually, we have some gin that you brought here. Can
MIC2Yeah, I brought our gin. you know, since, uh, I thought that was appropriate
Speaker 16I hope it doesn't suck. I've never tried it before. Oh, I'll be tasting it here. it can't, it
MIC2couldn't possibly, and not because it's rigor necessarily, but it was made by literally the, maybe the most
Speaker 16gin, distiller world, Tom Nichol, That's awesome. formerly
MIC2of Tanqueray.
MIC3This is
MIC2Thank you.
Speaker 16mean-
Speaker 10It
Speaker 11smells amazing
Speaker 10It's delicious But is it available in New Jersey?
MIC2Wow.
MIC3Wow.
Speaker 10we're
MIC2Yeah, we're in New Jersey, New York. We're in about 30
Speaker 16states, and a little bit of international.
Speaker 10If
MIC3you're a Restaurant Guys regular, and
Speaker 10you, Oh, this is good ......if you're a Restaurant Guys regular and you pop into the bar Keep yourself alive ...and you refer to this we're gonna
MIC3buy you
Speaker 10a gin martini made with Rieger Gin, uh-
Speaker 16Super tasty well, uh,
Speaker 10just if
MIC3know, if you're a Restaurant Guys regular, you gotta
Speaker 10curly ...and a paid subscriber. Stop into the Stage Left
MIC3Kathleen Barney Bar, say, "I heard it on the show, and Mark
Speaker 10Francis said they'd buy me a Rieger martini." How's that?
Speaker 16I love that.
Speaker 10That's a great cross-promotion
MIC2have to, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 16our, uh, distributor in New Jersey to load up. Uh,
Speaker 10e-
MIC3yeah, exactly, exactly. The, the millions of Restaurant Guys regulars will be
Speaker 10you're sending in pods. All
MIC3right, so tell us about the
Speaker 10of the distillery and the restaurant. It's a cool
MIC2So it all kind of, uh, Well, first off, the brand
Speaker 16back to 1887 in Kansas City, Missouri. It was a, a huge whiskey
MIC2brand, uh, up until Prohibition. It was actually the largest mail order whiskey house in the United States. We were shipping bottles from coast to coast. It
Speaker 16was a huge
MIC2business. Um, and then Prohibition put us out of business, disappeared for
Speaker 1690-plus years. That's
MIC2where I come in. Um, I was in the bar and restaurant business prior to this, prior to the distillery, and
Speaker 16in fact, I had no idea that the, that this brand ever existed. the, the
MIC2founder's son built a hotel in
Speaker 16City that opened in 1915. It was called the Rieger Hotel. That
MIC2was the, the name of
Speaker 16the, hotel,
MIC2And we think he was kinda like pivoting, uh, with Prohibition
Speaker 16coming, you know, like got into the hotel business. diversifying. Oh,
Speaker 10yeah. Smart.
MIC2Yeah. And so that building is still standing, and in 2009,
Speaker 16was looking for a location
MIC2open my second bar, which was like a little kinda speakeasy style craft
Speaker 16bar, um, that kind in Kansas
Speaker 10But- What year was that?
Speaker 1609. Okay. Yeah.
MIC2And very, very much influenced by
Speaker 16and Honey, uh,
MIC2Violet Hour, and we were, we were kinda early, you know,
MIC3City. So was there-
Speaker 11Kansas City. So was there- Yeah, you guys really are. I mean, Violet Hour was '07.
Speaker 16Yeah. Uh-
Speaker 11uh, Milk and
Speaker 16Honey's
Speaker 1105. I, said, yeah Right.
Speaker 10I think even before. was
MIC3there a cocktail scene in Kansas City
Speaker 10prior
Speaker 16to that? Not like
MIC2this. No, not like That Not the craft cocktail
Speaker 16scene at all not the, the thing. You know, like,
MIC2I, I, I went to Milk Honey in 2005 and it
Speaker 16changed my life.
Speaker 11Yep.
Speaker 16And then I just became obsessed with the and
MIC2you know, came to Chicago a lot and
Speaker 16went to Violet Hour. You know, it was- that
Speaker 11kind of place. Wasn't
MIC2place. Wasn't It, it was really,
Speaker 16really amazing.
Speaker 11just one of... I, I, I- feel terribly that we always talk if you didn't go, you can't go, Yeah. right? Yeah. It, but it was such a special place, And what, what I wanna say, tell all our listeners is that was the kind of place when you go to a place and you say s- this is really cool and, and intimate and special, know that that place was probably informed by Milk Honey
Speaker 16Yeah
Speaker 11w- way back when.
Speaker 16Yeah.
Speaker 11Well, and
MIC3and also Milk &Honey was a real speakeasy, and before,
Speaker 11it used to have a telephone number that you- That's right ...you
MIC3knew the number. Like,
MIC2well, he even changed the
Speaker 10would
MIC2lot Because, 'cause it would get too widespread,
Speaker 16it was-
Speaker 10Well, somebody would publish it somewhere.
Speaker 16Right, and he would change
Speaker 10it And
MIC3then he would call all the regulars who had the number
Speaker 10say- Yeah "Okay, here's the
MIC3new number. Don't tell anybody." Yeah. And then eventually they went to, you could go by
Speaker 10text," but this was before text. Yeah. Yep.
MIC3and and
Speaker 10thing is, you know, there was that whole
MIC3speakeasy
Speaker 10speakeasy aesthetic that came from
MIC3that, and some people took it a little too far,
Speaker 10think, and it wasn't re- Like, "This is our new speakeasy. We
MIC3don't want anyone
Speaker 10know about it, and
MIC3the entrance is on 32nd Street
Speaker 10And
Speaker 11Here's our ad
Speaker 10but I
MIC3on the cover of-" Uh, and, you know, I, but I think it really came from a very sincere thing. It was more than just
Speaker 10the secretive nature of it. It was intimate- Yeah ...and it was presenting cocktails in a very special way,
MIC2very specialized- I, I always feel like when I tell the story about my first
Speaker 16to Milk Honey, I
MIC2feel like
Speaker 16maybe being a little bit dramatic to say that, you know, going to a
MIC2bar literally changed my life, but it did. it was that powerful of
Speaker 16experience. It literally changed my life, and- So
Speaker 10tell us what you experienced there and how it changed your life oh my
Speaker 16God, Like,
MIC2just everything from the, the...
Speaker 16One of
MIC2of the things that really
Speaker 16struck me was
MIC2the experience that I had before ever walking in- the door. You know,
Speaker 16like
MIC2getting the phone number, how the,
Speaker 16number, was given to me, uh,
MIC2the, you know, getting the reservation, and I had never, you know,
Speaker 16at that point, you know, who'd ever made a reservation at a bar before? Right. Right.
MIC2that's crazy, right? and then finding the location so hidden in
Speaker 16location of uh, you know, just a dark
MIC2street in,
Speaker 16One thirty-s- in Eltrich
MIC2Eldridge? between Broome and Delancey, You
Speaker 16And, like,
MIC2the whole experience. And I was even going with, I was visiting New York, and I was, taking a friend, and this friend brought,
Speaker 16uh, two girls with her who had, who
MIC2lived in New York but had never heard of it, and they thought I was crazy. They're like, "Who is this kid from Kansas City who's gonna show us
Speaker 16bar that we've never heard of," here? yeah. And
MIC2so they didn't, they didn't believe me. But, uh, you know, it was there, and we found it. I remember everything from the smell the,
Speaker 16the first time the door opened
MIC2and the flickering candlelight going down the bar and the, the gentleman who greeted me at the
Speaker 16curtain. Yeah, go
MIC2curtain, like pulling back that curtain and seeing the flickering candlelight and being hit
Speaker 16that, aroma of fresh
MIC2citrus
Speaker 16mint and just
MIC2everything about it. And then not having a menu and then just, like, having them
Speaker 16cater the drinks
MIC2to us.
Speaker 16ice cubes,
MIC2maybe the first time that I ever saw, like, you know, a large format ice cube like that. And it was, it it, was, just an in- a really incredible experience. Everything from all the attention to detail, the quality of the drinks,
Speaker 16to the hospitality, everything about it. I, I couldn't get it out
MIC2of my head. And, you know, I came back to Kansas City just obsessing over it, like, "I have to open a bar
Speaker 16this. Okay. And it... That
MIC2was the bar that I opened in that r- in the Rieger Hotel. Uh, in 2009, I opened a bar called Manifesto, and it was
Speaker 16very much informed by Milk Honey.
MIC2But, you know,
Speaker 16we, gave
MIC2it our own, uh, personality. you know, we
Speaker 16infused our Kansas City sense of hospitality into it, and it
MIC2became a juggernaut of a bar. It just really took
Speaker 11So tell us about the Kansas City, what in- what informs your bar that makes it a Kansas City bar?
MIC2Well, I, uh, you know, what I'm really talking about is
Speaker 16sense of hospitality, that
MIC2kinda easygoing, uh, Midwestern hospitality where, you know, you can
Speaker 16what you do seriously, but you can't take yourself too seriously, Mm-hmm. you know? And
MIC2you've gotta make sure that you're taking care of people and you're, you're presenting a kind of,
Speaker 16uh, even if it's
MIC2in a formal environment
Speaker 16with
MIC2a, you know, meticulous attention to detail when it comes to the drinks or the food or whatever, you still have to kinda
Speaker 16an easygoing nature about yourself,
MIC2and make people, you know, just feel welcome and, and relaxed, you know? Like, it's a blue-collar town.
Speaker 16know, Yeah, yeah. we're, we're in the,
MIC2the Midwest. Like any, like any town, like city in the Midwest like that has a very blue-collar nature to it,
Speaker 16so you gotta be really careful about, going too
MIC2far
Speaker 16with, uh- ...some
MIC2of the formalities. But, it was fun. You know, Manifesto was... It had that aesthetic of Milk Honey, and it had the drinks and the, and everything about it, the concept-wise, but
Speaker 16was also rowdy. It was fun and, and had a really
MIC2good energy
MIC3and so how did we
Speaker 10from- Milk &Honey was never rowdy. never rowdy
Speaker 11never rowdy.
Speaker 10Never allowed to be rowdy.
MIC3But how did
Speaker 10get from there
MIC3to your current bars and restaurants? I don't want to, I
Speaker 10talk about-
MIC3the distillery and, the
Speaker 10bars and
MIC2So a year and a half after I opened Manifesto, this is in a kind of a rundown old hotel building called The Rieger Hotel, but I didn't know about
Speaker 16the brand, right?
MIC2Um, but I had an opportunity to open up, a restaurant on the first floor, uh, in this old hotel building, so it would've been
Speaker 16original hotel lobby. And
MIC2so I just decided to call the restaurant the Rieger, named after the hotel, and, I started
Speaker 16the history of the hotel,
MIC2looking for old photographs and stories and anything that I could weave into the concept of the restaurant, and that's how I accidentally discovered
Speaker 16the history of J. Rieger Company and was a
MIC2whiskey distillery in Kansas City prior to Prohibition.
Speaker 11Well, and you guys basically invented Kansas City Whiskey,
Speaker 16right? We did. That was
MIC2yeah. We-- That was our first product when we first decided to make an effort
Speaker 16resurrect the brand, the whiskey brand. You know, I
MIC2wanted to know what
Speaker 16was Rieger Whiskey back
MIC2in the 1800s when it was, you know,
Speaker 16this
MIC2huge nationally known brand
Speaker 16and really successful. And
Speaker 10what did you find out that said the Rieger hard-
MIC2on the barrel? Well, what's... It's, it's complicated. It took me two years,
Speaker 16um, along with
MIC2Dave Pickerell,
Speaker 16uh, Right one
MIC2of our co-founders. I worked with him very closely on this. Um, wonder-
MIC1important
Speaker 11guy in the- Wonderful in the whiskey world.
Speaker 16Very, Yeah. you
MIC2I worked for- He was at WhistlePig for six- Yeah was-- He was kinda the face of WhistlePig and, ...but he was also the master distiller at
Speaker 16Mark for years, Yeah. and he
MIC2was involved in
Speaker 16far
MIC2more brands than most
Speaker 16realize. Yeah. You know, Yeah he was a big part of the, Yeah ...the modern day kind of explosion
MIC2of craft whiskeys, and we were one of them. So getting to work with him
Speaker 16really
MIC2special, but I,
Speaker 16you know, I told him from the outset, like,
MIC2I really wanna know what Rieger Whiskey was back
Speaker 16then." And that's kind
MIC2of an
Speaker 16task because there
MIC2were no
Speaker 16records You
MIC2know, there were no, there was no federal legislation or governance around whiskey
Speaker 16production or labeling requirements,
MIC2and
Speaker 16we just don't have that documentation. But what
MIC2we did discover was that it was very, very common, and
Speaker 16really caught me off guard, that it was really common for producers
MIC2like us back then to do blended whiskeys with the, the addition of a very small amount
Speaker 16sherry, Right. Like added
MIC2in, not like sherry
Speaker 16finishing like we think of today, malt
MIC2scotch or something, but literally producers
Speaker 16adding sherry to their whiskey back then, so- Just to give it
Speaker 10body and richness.
MIC2a lot. Yeah, 2.5, but it, it, it makes a, it makes a big difference, and
Speaker 11to be fair, using sherry. You're using a 15-year-old-
MIC2We use- w- yeah, we do. You guys don't share your sherry with us. Well, no, I mean- You just throw
Speaker 11mean- ..."Hey, let's throw a little sherry in here."
Speaker 16No.
MIC2No, I mean, we went to Spain. You know, we went to Jerez de la Frontera and, took a lot of time in the formulation of, of our recipe and, and chose
Speaker 16really-
MIC2beautiful 15-year Oloroso sherry, uh, made by Williams Humbert, you know, one of the largest,
Speaker 10sherry houses in the world Did the sherry you had is a dry
Speaker 16It's
MIC2a medium- Oloroso kind of media- so it's, it's an Oloroso. Oloroso. Uh, it's an o- 15-year Oloroso medium, kinda s- ...it's got some sweetness and richness to it, but it has a dry finish.
Speaker 10So we've had many whiskeys, uh, aged in sherry casks-
MIC2Yeah. is there a specific reason-
MIC3But I'm c- I'm, I... we
Speaker 10had your whiskey. It's very
MIC3rare that we'd have you on
Speaker 10show and not have a whiskey. Yes. Right. Yeah. We kind of rushed together. here.
Speaker 11Well, I'm just glad that, we had a show a few weeks ago with the guys from Til Death, Mm-hmm. and they just couldn't stop talking Rieger- I love that. Yeah and Rieger whiskey. It's an
MIC1you know, how, how important
Speaker 11were Yeah ...to Kansas City and what they were doing and inspirational you guys were to them. Yeah, that was a- I,
Speaker 16love
Speaker 11that. I love
Speaker 10that Well, Mark, I'm about to break a Mark and Francis rule
MIC3because we, we're the Restaurant Guys, obviously,
Speaker 10this podcast is a very important part of what we do, but we also run our own restaurants and a wine shop Mm and we own a liquor store as well.
MIC3So we, I'm not supposed to do this
Speaker 10I, talk to Mark first- Okay but we're gonna try and tempt you out to do a tasting or a dinner out with us Sure ...in
MIC3our restaurants in, in next year.
Speaker 10you come in?
Speaker 16Yeah.
MIC2And ...is this in
Speaker 16In
Speaker 10New
Speaker 16Jersey. yeah. I would absolutely love to. That would be fantastic.
MIC3I love my, Mark, I got the smile from Mark.
Speaker 10I was looking,
MIC3is it gonna be
Speaker 10smile or is there a
MIC3dirty look? I, I got
Speaker 10smile, so.
Speaker 16Yeah, that sounds great.
Speaker 10Yeah. It's gonna
MIC3be a lot of fun. I can't wait to try this whiskey. Yeah and we'll do a little cocktail. We'll figure out something we're gonna
Speaker 10together. Very cool. It's gonna be a, a grand old time. But we have to, we must,
MIC3here at
Speaker 10Martini Expo- Mm-hmm now turn our conversation
MIC3to the martini. Right. So I have a question,
Speaker 10and Mark has a question for you. So
MIC3what are you doing here at the Martini Expo? Why is the martini important?
MIC2Um, what I'm doing here is I just got finished on a panel, with a couple of other brand representatives, owners, talking about
Speaker 16gin.
MIC2gin. So talking about like what does-- what is American gin? You know, what sets it apart? What are we doing that's different or unique? And, And, it was a really enlightening, discussion and, and it was, it was just really great. And of course, we got into the
Speaker 16side of it and then Martin shared- So
Speaker 11tell us what you're doing that's different and unique
Speaker 16Well,
MIC2actually we are, with our gin, what we're doing that's different and unique is
Speaker 16being very traditional. Um-
Speaker 10Yeah, you're being- that doesn't taste- So- So I
MIC3spend a lot of
Speaker 10I judged for
MIC3the, uh, Ultimate
Speaker 10Challenge- Yeah and for the ADI tasting for a long
MIC3time, American gins. Mm-hmm. And boy, I really would like, and I think Mark
Speaker 10like for You, too, to, to elaborate on what makes an American gin. 'Cause
MIC3I would have some of these American gins and, you
Speaker 10some
MIC3of them
Speaker 10great. Mm-hmm. Um, but some of them, you could hardly taste
MIC3any juniper,
Speaker 10and there was a lot
MIC3of
Speaker 10turmeric ...and everything. And what makes an American gin as a style distinct from a Plymouth gin or
MIC3or a London
Speaker 10dry
MIC3gin or Old
Speaker 16gin or an Old Tom gin? Well,
MIC2that was a big part of the
Speaker 16in the
MIC2panel, and
Speaker 16I think the,
MIC2conclusion is that there really isn't anything. and if, and if you kinda had to hang your hat on something
Speaker 16that, defined American gin, it's that
MIC2you can do a lot of different things and you've got a lot of room for innovation and a l- there's
Speaker 16broad range
MIC2of flavor profiles and styles. Whereas, you know, London dry is gonna be very narrow. Or even in other American
Speaker 16like American bourbon it's gonna be very rigid, Mm-hmm.
MIC2you know, and you don't have a lot of room for experimentation. But within the category of American gin, pretty much
Speaker 16goes.
Speaker 10So would you say, 'cause how I would define
MIC3is, and, and people even try
Speaker 10say,
MIC3Well, there's a Western gin, an Am-
Speaker 10an American western gin. Yeah. And I don't know that there's... gin,
MIC3is so dependent on who's making it and the formula. It's not like the gin from this region has
Speaker 10different microbe in the air that makes it taste a certain way. Mm-hmm.
MIC3I just think with American gin," you
Speaker 10stray further away from the than
Speaker 16with a London dry.
MIC2and I'm glad you said that because I felt the
Speaker 16way. And when
MIC2we made our gin in 2015, uh, we worked with the former master distiller of Tanqueray, Tom Nichol. So
Speaker 16he, this is the guy that created Tanqueray Number Ten, and he's just an
MIC2an absolute, uh, legend And wonderful person to, uh, work with. and you can even see his
Speaker 16picture on the inside of the, label. Oh, I
MIC3you can even see his picture on the inside of the bottle Oh, I love that that's, uh, Tom up there. You can look at him through the
MIC2there. that's, uh,
Speaker 16right there.
Speaker 10Because
MIC2It is Tom Nichol. So, so you know, it, in 2015 and even still, you
Speaker 16in large part today,
MIC2so many gins are like you describe in America, like we're trying to get too far away from juniper or trying to like showcase local botanicals or, or things like that. And we said, "Let's make the best
Speaker 16possible London dry." In the United States. Right.
MIC2And so we went very, very old school classic London dry gin. Um, and obviously
Speaker 16Tom with his background with Tanqueray was able to, you know, we
MIC2wanted... And it, And it, kinda goes back to being a bartender
Speaker 16It's like if
MIC2somebody asks me for a martini at the bar or a negroni or really any classic cocktail, I'm always gonna gravitate towards a
Speaker 16dry style because the majority of those cocktails would've been made with a London dry gin. We're vain with those. Sure.
Speaker 10Sure. You can't, you can't depart from that when someone orders a martini or a gin and tonic unless it comes with explanation.
MIC2Or if they ask for it. but
Speaker 10ask for
MIC3and you say "Listen, "Yeah, I'm gonna make you
Speaker 10a martini but I'm gonna use a gin that's a little unusual- Right so here's some old rocks." Right. I
MIC2they're-- those drinkers, for the most part, have a very specific idea of what they want that, that cocktail to taste like, and you can't go too far. So we, we wanted to make a, a very classic London dry with our gin.
Speaker 10you've
Speaker 11right, so our final question. What was your moment you knew the important and central cocktail to the, to the cocktail world? What was your moment you're like, "This is special. There's something about the martini that
Speaker 16is special. Probably the first
MIC2time, I mean, I started bartending in 1999, um, in a steakhouse, in a really beautiful bar in a, in a steakhouse, and so we were making martinis. Yeah. But they weren't, they weren't the
Speaker 16real
MIC2martini, you know what I
Speaker 16Right. For the most part It's like, a
MIC2lot of dirty martinis, but then a lot of, like, you know, crazy riffs like the apple martinis and things like that. So the first time that I think that I ever really had, a martini experience that was, like, that elevated,
Speaker 16classic martini probably at the Pig and Clown in-
Speaker 10really in New York. Interesting. Yeah. Wow.
MIC3That's a, that's a... You started right
Speaker 10the pedigree Yeah.
MIC2And well, I, and I remember, I remember the bartender very well. It was Kenta
Speaker 16Sure. Oh,
MIC3my goodness.
MIC2who now has his own
Speaker 16Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 11We're doing a show with Kenta about two weeks before.
MIC2it had to have been the first time that I ever saw the, mise en place of a, a martini with the crushed ice and the sidecar and a couple of extra garnishes on the side, and just the, that, attention to detail, you know, where the martini was more than just what was in the glass, but it was this, this immersive
Speaker 16immersive experience.
MIC2and, uh,
Speaker 16that
MIC2was awesome to
MIC3Kenta is one of those guys,
Speaker 10if you're gonna have a first martini served by someone, he's s- he's a very stately, reserved, and
MIC3quiet, elegant
Speaker 16Yes. He's the perfect, Perfect, person to
Speaker 11do it. absolutely. He's also somebody who you want to serve you your last martini.
MIC2who you want to serve you your last martini. Right.
MIC3And he's also somebody who you want to serve you your last martini. I don't want that to be for a
Speaker 10long time.
MIC3time.
Speaker 10Listen, man,
MIC3it's been great having you on the show. Thanks for letting us steal you
Speaker 10this excellent, uh, martini. expo. And
MIC3hopefully we can kidnap you out to New
Speaker 10one of these days. I I'm up for
Speaker 16it. Yeah. I'd love to
Speaker 10It'd be a great time. Yeah. Thanks a bunch. Thanks so much, Ryan. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks for
Speaker 16coming. Pleasure.
The Restaurant GuysAnd so there's a selection of the coolest folks we met at the Martini Expo. It went on for days. It was great. We met a lot of people. It was super fun. And, uh, next year we're gonna go again. And if you're still listening, we're really proud of you. Hope you've enjoyed the time. I'm Francis Schacht. I'm Mark Pascal. We are the Restaurant Guys. You can always find out more about us at RestaurantGuysPodcast.com.
