1:15

Hello everybody, and welcome. You are listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Schott. Together we own Stage Left and Cata Lombardi Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. And today that track will come from the great city of Houston, Texas, where we were down for the Southern Smoke Festival. We've interviewed a bunch of chefs and different folks in the restaurant industry who were down there. It was great. The interviews were great, the food was great, the cocktails were great, and we're gonna do this in two parts. We have a show today, and then we'll have another show after this because there were so many amazing chefs down there. The festival, you have to go. It is really unlike any other food festival. We go to a lot of fancy shows- Mm-hmm we go to martini dedicated shows. This really speaks of Houston, and it is the Southern Smoke Festival. But at the same time, there were chefs from all over the world there. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh, we need to remind everybody what Southern Smoke does. Yeah. It's such an important organization and, and I enjoyed it last year, but I really felt like I got the whole picture this year. Well, we met so many people. We also went out in the restaurants in Houston. Mm-hmm. And where we were, people were like, "Oh, yeah, I have a friend who they helped out." Mm-hmm. "I have a friend. Oh, I know a guy in another restaurant who was in trouble." Southern Smoke Foundation was founded to help restaurant employees or restaurant adjacent employees who often don't have health insurance, who often are in vulnerable situations. And if you get into a jam, if you get sick and don't have health insurance, or your house burns down- And they can respond really quickly is one of the key- Yeah things of this organization. You basically, it's a very simple process for a micro grant, and if it's you need to pay the rent this month or you're gonna get kicked out- Mm or, you know, it can be up to several hundred to several thousand dollars, and it's for restaurant employees. Anyway, the Southern Smoke Foundation was awesome because all of the chefs there, it's our charity for our people. Mm-hmm. You know, we're helping each other, and you felt that. And the food, I really do think extra effort was put into the food. I think there was extra effort put into the food. Yeah. That's... I, I think you've said it exactly correctly because there was so much care put into the food. Yeah. And honestly, the Houston chefs especially, I mean, Aaron Bludorn might have made the best bite of food- Oh, my God I've ever had at any food festival anywhere in my life. Yeah. And by the way, it's, it's a type of food that, like, we've all had what we think was a bit like the gr- Mm-hmm it's a grilled cheese. Yeah. But this was an F-U grilled cheese. Like, I, I could... I think on Instagram there's a picture of me putting this grilled cheese in my mouth. I couldn't fricking... Aaron Bludorn's an incredibly talented chef. Uh. We were at his restaurant last year. And if you wanna listen, we did a interview with Aaron last year when we were at Southern Smoke, and just go back into last year's show. It was great. But the thing about this particular festival is it is in Houston, which you know you're in Texas. You feel- Mm-hmm you're in Texas. There's a lot of barbecue there. There are grilled cheese sandwiches there. But these are some of the best chefs in the country. They have great cocktail people. It was just great. We had a great time, and we're gonna take you to several interviews, shorter interviews with some of the most interesting food people all there to do a great thing. And the nice thing is- To meet each other, to work together toward a cause, and to be welcomed in as part of that family, I mean, is really good for us. I felt great being a part of that, and we feel great helping to promote that and to show it to you. So I think right now we're gonna take you to the Southern Smoke Festival in Houston, Texas. Have a great time. We did

BMason F 4:30

So here we are in Houston, astride the grounds of the Southern Smoke Festival 2026, and our victim this time is Benjy Mason. Benjy is a chef, nonprofit founder, operator, bar owner, and restaurateur. He is behind some of Houston's favorite neighborhood joints, including Johnny's Goldbrick, Winnie's, Starduster Lounge, and the Shredder's Pizza. That's a pretty diverse collection

BMason B 4:51

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they all make sense to me, so

BMason F 4:56

Well, I, I think we want to start talking to you about, I mean, you're, you're, uh, deeply ingrained in the fabric here in Houston, and one of the things from everything we've read about you and your places, you got your start in nonprofits.

BMason B 5:08

Yeah. Yeah, that's-

BMason M 5:09

service to others. Yeah. And it feels like Southern Smoke, right, is in... This whole thing is about in service to others. Yeah. It feels like you're in the right place today.

BMason F 5:17

and specifically, I was gonna say that your nonprofits s- all- are about creating a community, and your restaurants seem to be doing the same thing

BMason B 5:26

Absolutely. And I think, you know, our goal really has always been to sort of make neighborhood places, right, where people come together and, you know, meet, make new friends, see old friends. Um, so yeah, that's kinda like... And that to me is, you know, you look at it and say, "Oh, this looks like a disparate portfolio," but I'm like, "Well, they kind of all have the same, like, core value," and I think, and therefore, they all make sense to me.

BMason M 5:52

so it's funny, when we opened Stage Left, our first restaurant, in May of 1992, we went through seven different incarnations of what it was gonna be, right? Right. We, we're, as we're developing the concept of, what our, our first little restaurant was gonna be. But the single thread that ran through it all the time, and he said it so many times I wanted to punch him in the face, we wanna be a locus of community. Yeah. and that was foundational for us. Yeah. It was one of those things that we said, "Okay, whatever this is, and you're gonna bartend one day, and I'm gonna maitre d-" Yeah. and then I'm gonna bartend the next day, and you're gonna maitre d, and the bar's gonna be central in the room," and that was gonna be the whole vibe of the place. We had 42 seats and, and plus about 10 or 12 at the bar. Yeah. that was so important to us from the start, and it's still really important to us today, you have to be part of your community, or you're just a tourist restaurant. Right. And that's a thing. Right. And it's okay to be a tourist restaurant. but it's, there's something about being part of the community.

BMason B 6:52

I agree, and I think, this was something that I knew was important to me, like from when I started, right? And I was doing fine dining, all the phases that you go through in your career, and I sort of have, you know, I've done fancier things and less fancy and sort of more foodie things And what I've realized over, you know, the last 20 years is like, if I stay focused on, like, this as, as sort of a guiding principle, everything else falls into place, right? Everything else works out, and if I stray too far, I sort of find myself getting lost and realizing, I'm like, "What am I doing here?" You know? This is not, this was not why I s- showed up to do this. And

BMason F 7:28

So how do you get from being in the nonprofit? When did you in your head... Did you always know you wanted to open a business to make that a part of the community in that way?

BMason B 7:36

the nonprofit was my first business venture. Like, it was, we started ourselves, we built it up from, you know, basically our first year I think our budget was 20,000 and our last, the year I left, our budget was a million.

BMason F 7:49

What was, was the name of the

BMason B 7:50

What was the name of the nonprofit? Uh, it was called Workshop Houston. So it was doing, uh, youth arts and afterschool programs. Cool. Um, and kind of as it grew, the job became less and less about doing the work and more, more about

BMason F 8:02

Raising the money.

BMason M 8:03

It, yeah.

BMason B 8:04

you know, asking for money. And I realized that I liked working and I didn't like asking for money. Yeah, right. Uh, and I was kind of like a little bit, I mean, I was 30 and I was a little bit lost. I wasn't sure what I was gonna do, but I knew I didn't wanna do that anymore. And I actually went, I was trying to fill out grad school applications, 'cause it seemed like that was the next thing to do, and I really didn't wanna do it. And so I went to the restaurant, a restaurant that I really liked, and just said, "Hey, can I start coming in on Fridays and Saturdays and just- Stage? stage?" Uh, and they were like, "Oh my God, yes, we're so short-staffed."

BMason F 8:40

Sure, sure

BMason M 8:41

Uh,

BMason B 8:42

I showed up at this restaurant, it was called Feast. It's, it's not here anymore, but it was a, it was a wild, it was a British nose to tail... This was

BMason F 8:53

Okay

BMason B 8:53

First day I showed up and they said, "Have you ever taken the skin off a pig's head?" And I was like, "No, who's done that?"

BMason F 8:58

As I was gonna say, as most

BMason B 9:00

Yeah.

BMason F 9:00

Yeah uh, have not

BMason B 9:01

Uh, and then-

BMason M 9:02

I'm gonna say under 1% of our listeners- Yeah, yeah has taken the skin off a pig's

BMason B 9:07

And they said, "Well, here's a dozen." "You'll be, you'll be good at it

BMason M 9:12

by 12." I was just about to say, so you, by the time you get to 12, you're like, "I'm a pro."

BMason B 9:17

Funnily, years later I was staging another restaurant, just I was on vacation, I thought I want to go stage at a restaurant, and they brought a pig's head in, nothing to do with me, and the two chefs at this restaurant, who were people who I really admired, were looking at it, and they went, "Man, if only someone knew how to take the skin off a

BMason F 9:34

That's

BMason M 9:34

And I

BMason B 9:35

amazing. And I was like, Right

BMason F 9:37

What a hero

BMason B 9:38

so yeah, I started doing that, and kind of really quickly was like, "I'm never gonna go back to school, and this is what I wanna be Uh, so I worked there, and then kind of worked my way into the kitchen. Did that for a few years, but then realized I was much more interested in the sort of operations

BMason F 9:57

Sure

BMason M 9:57

You know what I love about this business? We say things like, "So I was on vacation and I wanted to work a- 12 or 14-hour week, a, a day for two days while I was on vacation- Right 'cause, you know, I thought it'd be cool."

BMason B 10:11

It was cool. It was great. I slept in my car. I was like, I was so excited to be there.

BMason M 10:16

I slept in my car

BMason F 10:18

restaurant then

BMason B 10:19

restaurant eventually hired me. I worked there for two years, and then, uh, they closed one of their locations and were like, "Hey, you can keep working here, but you need to find another job. Like, we can't really afford to pay you." And actually, my boss at the time, came in and he said, "I found a job for you." And I was like, "Oh, great. Where is it?" And he goes, "I don't remember. I was super drunk."

BMason F 10:39

That's great.

BMason M 10:40

But I talked to a guy, he loves you. He goes,

BMason B 10:42

"I talked to a guy. You're gonna love

BMason M 10:43

gonna love him. It's the

BMason B 10:44

perfect spot for you." And I was like, "This would be really useful information if you remembered where it was." He said, "I think it was in the Heights." Anyway, so I got, I ended up... That was my first head chef job, which I was, like, so woefully underqualified for, you know? I had been cooking professionally in college, and then only, but only for a few

BMason M 11:04

but the story of this business is s- first of all, it's a, it's a story of opportunity, right? Sure. That's, that's what this business is, being in the right place at the right time, being the guy- Right right? Being somebody who could be counted on- Yeah in this business at the right place at the right time. But wherever you are, if you're the guy, an opportunity's gonna open for you, okay? That's- Yeah just, it is such a migratory, transient business- Yeah that an opportunity will open up

BMason F 11:32

so You take over as head chef and, and how'd that go?

BMason B 11:34

I take over as head chef. The restaurant's been open for four months. I'm the third head chef. Uh-oh. So, uh, and it went really well. The restaurant was super busy. I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew- You knew nothing I was better at it than the first two

BMason M 11:52

got it closed down. Yeah. Uh-

BMason B 11:54

yeah. Uh, and it was actually, it was great because it was like, it was a restaurant in a sort of up-and-coming neighborhood where there were no... We were doing breakfast, lunch, dinner. We opened at 6:00. We closed at 2:00.

BMason M 12:06

Well, you had four hours to clean up

BMason B 12:08

Four... And it's,

BMason M 12:08

so- That's funny

BMason B 12:09

And we did craft cocktails, we did specialty coffee, and we did farm-to-table. And so it was like, it was a lot of moving pieces. And I like, that's kinda my, like, I'm like, "Oh, this is so fun," you

BMason F 12:20

Yeah,

BMason B 12:20

And like, uh, and so, and the neighborhood was so excited to have something- Right that they were very, very it was like, we, people would come in and we'd say, "Hey, we're on a hour-and-a-half wait for food. Not for a table. Once you sit down, it's gonna take 90 minutes for your brunch to come out." Right. People were like, "Yeah, great." started going well. and then from there I moved up into doing operations stuff for a restaurant expanded. we opened nine restaurants in

BMason M 12:55

Wow.

BMason B 12:56

Uh, which turned out was a bad idea. Yeah.

BMason M 12:58

Yeah.

BMason B 12:59

That,

BMason M 12:59

that group- That's really

BMason B 13:00

That's pretty bad that group crumbled. and at that point, I bought Johnnie's, which is my oldest concept, oldest bar now, out of the sort of rubble of that restaurant group.

BMason M 13:12

have an expression. Second mouse gets the cheese. Yeah, Right? Okay. First mouse, he had a bad day. Second mouse gets the cheese.

BMason B 13:21

You know, I... It's funny 'cause, like, at the time I was like, "This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me," right? I just had this, like, super traumatic experience and, I was 37 and I was like, you know, "My life is over. No one's ever gonna wanna hire me again." I was like, "I better have something coming out of this, 'cause, like, I'm never gonna get a job again," you know? years later I kinda realized, oh man, like,

BMason M 13:42

I'm always gonna have a job. I'm a restaurant

BMason B 13:43

I'm a restaurant person, and also, like, there was a lot to learn, you know? And now when people call me and are like, "Hey, I'm about to close my first restaurant," I'm like, "First of all, you're gonna be okay." Right. Like, you're gonna survive, and if you can walk away from this having learned something, you're gonna be a much, much better-

BMason M 14:02

and not being in debt for the rest of your life. Right. Right? The two things you want to do is get away from that debt free with the

BMason B 14:08

I actually, I said to someone, they were like, "Yeah, like the restaurant closed and I don't have any money." And I'm like, "Well, how much money do you owe?" And they were like, Oh, no, I don't owe anyone." I was like, "Hey, I call that a huge win." You

BMason M 14:20

You won the restaurant game.

BMason F 14:21

so running restaurants then, I think there are two things that I wanna ask you about. One is you're running a restaurant, you're the chef, you're the owner, you sort of take on a dad role to the, your restaurant family and, you take on, again, being a place for the community to come in. At the kind of restaurants you run, you're involved in people's lives and you're a place for people to come to find solace and comfort. Is that true?

BMason B 14:42

I think so. And I mean, one of the things that I realized early on and that I think has proven true to me is that I spend a lot of time worrying about how to make the restaurants good places to work. Yeah. good places for the people who are there. yeah. And if I can do that well, they do everything else. Yeah.

BMason F 15:02

Mark and I always say we wanna run a restaurant that we would wanna work in if we didn't own it

BMason M 15:07

the other thing that we do in our restaurants, and I, and I think it's one of the reasons we're there so long and we have such longstanding employees, I will never make a decision for this restaurant without considering how it affects my employees. Yeah. Now, I may make a decision that adversely affects you- Yes because I need to make that decision, but never will you not be part of the discussion, never will you not be part of the decision. their needs and wants are part of the decision-making.

BMason B 15:35

and I think one of the things that we've realized over the years and that I've, said to my employees and I think at this point no longer have to s- say This is a trust-based relationship, right?" Yeah, yeah. Like, I put a lot of trust in you. Yeah. You put a lot of trust in me. And as you said, like when we're making decisions about whether it's scheduling or training or policies, I'm like, trust that even if it seems like maybe you don't like it, what's important to you has been thought about, it has been considered, it is... We have taken that into account. And I think, you know, over the years people start to realize, like- Yeah "Oh, that's true. Like, you're not, you're not just saying that." And so, I mean, that's one of the things that I, take a lot of pride in is that our staff tends to stay for a long time. and when they leave, they leave to go on to new opportunities and I love that. I'm like-

BMason M 16:26

awesome. Right. Go do something great. You should- Go do

BMason B 16:28

definitely go do that.

BMason M 16:30

The other thing that I say to my employees, is, I will trust you until you give me a reason- Yeah not to trust you." Yeah. So that's completely up to you,

BMason B 16:38

yeah, I always tell my employees, I'm like, I will promise you now it will not be a surprise if you get fired."

BMason F 16:46

It's funny

BMason B 16:46

you will know it's coming because I'm going to communicate to you about how you're doing. And for a lot of people, I think that's like a new idea, right? They're used to, like, working somewhere where it's like, "Oh, you're great, you're great, you're great. Okay, you're fired." I'm like, "No, no, that's not how we're doing this." Like, you will know when I am unhappy with what you're doing,

BMason F 17:03

Well, let's turn the conversation to the restaurants and the public, right? So first of all, I wanna start with, Shutter's Pizza. We haven't been to Shutter's Pizza, but I hear you're doing thin crust pizza down here in

BMason B 17:12

Thin crust,

BMason F 17:13

Thin crust, yes. And talk to me about, is that like a welcome style down here, or is that known down here? Are you blazing new trails with- Yeah. You know, we're, we're Jersey guys, right?

BMason B 17:20

I call it nostalgic New York, because it's like what I imagine New York pizza

BMason F 17:25

Oh, I love it. I love it

BMason B 17:26

and what we realized, me and my pizza partner started making pizza, and we kind of agreed on where we were going- Uh-huh but we're using, I mean, it's like exactly the same equipment that you would see in a shop from 1982 in Jersey, right? I know. It's like Baker's Pride oven, Hobart mixer, and we thought we were coming up with a new style, and we kinda kept tweaking it, and tweaking it, and tweaking it, and finally we were like, "Oh, this is just like standard New York style

BMason F 17:53

Yeah, but you're in Houston,

BMason B 17:54

But you're in Houston But we're in Houston and

BMason F 17:55

not as

BMason M 17:55

partner, just so you know, is the guy I go eat That's,

BMason B 17:59

My pizza partner and I eat a lot of pizza. my take was like there's been this huge boom in pizza in Houston and nationwide, and people are like, "There's all these new styles. There's Detroit and Chicago and thin crust-" Yeah and fancy pizza places that I like and, you know, spending $40 on a 12-inch pizza. Wow. And my kids were like, "This is disgusting." Like, "We don't like this pizza. It's

BMason F 18:20

Your kids have good taste in

BMason M 18:22

yeah

BMason B 18:22

My kids have good taste in pizza. They told me that Shredder's has gone from being the fifth-best pizza in Houston to the third-best pizza in

BMason F 19:56

Your kids, uh,

BMason B 19:57

Oh, your kids have you Like- all the scoop all right. I love it. Uh, so-

BMason F 20:01

you been up to have pizza in New Jersey, New York?

BMason B 20:02

No, we're actually going in two weeks. Where are you going? Uh, we're going to Brooklyn and-

BMason M 20:10

Gotta go to Razza in Jersey City

BMason B 20:12

All right. I'm, I'm more

BMason M 20:13

you there

BMason B 20:14

Get in there we haven't put the list fully together, but I think, you know, there's a handful of spots,

BMason F 20:18

Razza Pizza's in Jersey City, New Jersey- Okay which is across the Hudson River from- Yeah, yeah from New York, right? You can get there by PATH train. It's five blocks from my house. Dan Richer, an old friend of ours, is the chef there, and New York Times said the, headline in the food section was, "Where's the best pizza in New York? That's right, Jersey City, New Jersey." Yeah. So we'll Meet you there. All right, so it's a date. Benji Ma- maybe we'll do a little, uh, podcast or two seats on Instagram when we're there. Okay. Benji Mason, if you come to, uh, Houston, you've gotta visit, Johnny's Goldbrick, Winnie's Stardust Lounge, or Shredder's Pizza, and we'll see you in New Jersey.

BMason B 20:52

I'll be there.

BMason F 20:53

I'll be there. All right, brother. Thanks, guys. Thanks.

BMason M 20:54

see you in a couple weeks.

BMason B 20:55

Yeah, man.

A T F 20:56

Okay, next up in the hot seat we have Arjav Ezekiel and his wife Tracy Malachek Ezekiel. They are married, they are partners, kinda like Mark and Jen, in their own restaurant, and you guys are making a lot of waves. First of all, your restaurant has great acclaim. You're also making a lot of waves with the style of service. So we wanna talk about the food and the service

A T M 21:15

Arjav and Tracy, welcome to the show.

A T A 21:17

Thanks for having us.

A T M 21:17

glad to have you here

A T F 21:18

So can we start with the service? So you're a serious wine restaurant. Yep.

A T M 21:22

Serious food restaurant a- as

A T A 21:23

Yep.

A T F 21:24

but you have dialed back the service expectations in the dining room, the

A T M 21:29

you've changed

A T A 21:30

m- maybe expectations is not the word I would use. I think what we, what we did was, you know, one of the things I think about a lot is that restaurants haven't really changed since antiquity. And when we opened Birdie's, it was really important for us to think about what we thought the future of restaurants should look like based on first principles. and we know restaurants are under a lot of pressure, whether that's the cost of goods, labor, et cetera. We thought it was really important to build a restaurant that was sustainable for us as owners and operators, especially 'cause we're a couple, for our team most importantly, uh, and then for our guests. And then we realized along the way we probably have to ask a little bit more of our guests, by asking them to maybe adapt to a slightly different model. But Tracy and I were committed to making sure the hospitality, the food most importantly, which is driving, you know, that restaurant and the attention it gets, uh, and the beverage list, we're uncompromised in a lot of ways. So, uh, we like to call our service style fine casual.

A T F 22:26

Oh, I like that

A T A 22:27

in part because it has all the elements of fine dining you love, but it's stripped down to its elemental pieces. so people stand in line, they order a tasting menu. It's, uh, $79 for six courses. Uh, we have a 300 bottle wine list. And once you sit down, which would really feel like a full service restaurant,

A T M 22:43

really start to happen for you once you sit down, but you've already established what you're gonna order, how you want that

A T A 22:50

Yep, exactly. that allows us to have a trimmed down kind of labor model. and that allows the restaurant to be more profitable. And we're in turn, you know, allowed to take some of that through conscious capitalism, that profit, and invest it back into our team. So, you know, we're really proud of the fact that we offer our team, health insurance, a month of, paid and planned vacation every single year, two months of paid family leave, 401with a 4% employee match, which as a small restaurant is a hard thing to do.

A T M 23:17

It's very

A T A 23:18

it's really important for both of us, and I'll let Tracy speak to this in a second, but we're on a mission to professionalize restaurants. and you can only professionalize something if you can also have a life while- outside of work while you're at work. Uh, and it's really important to build a model for us, that allows us to do that. And counter service has been groundbreaking and

A T F 23:36

So I just, I just wanna drill down on that counter service. So people walk into your restaurant and there's kind of a, a waiting area or there's line, and,

A T A 23:42

Just a line

A T F 23:43

There's a line and, and I walk up to the counter, I order my dinner, I order my bottle of wine, and then I go sit down and it will follow me

A T A 23:49

down wherever you want. You get a little flag, you sit down with the flag. Then once you sit down, a server greets you, brings you water, swaps out your plates through the night. If you feel like another bottle of wine or you didn't feel like ordering that bottle of wine at the counter, you have an opportunity to do that. We have, uh, you know, two sommeliers and assistant wine director on the floor every single night. we have a service team, really, taking care of people. we just don't need captains, front waiters, back waiters. And that's also allows us to keep a really flat tip pool. so even the kitchen gets to participate in it

A T T 24:18

Yeah and even before guests order, we have this thing called wine in line. So the nights we have a line, it still makes it fun, and it's really a moment of hospitality because guests can grab a glass of wine while they hang out with their friends and wait. A lot of people make friends in line, which is super cool and fun, especially on a Friday, Saturday. But since we've shifted to prefix, last year, the line's not quite as long, so people also enjoy not waiting so long. Yeah. So it's kinda great where the line's not so long, but if it is a little bit longer, you still have a beverage in line

A T M 24:47

listen, I have no... If I have a cocktail in my hand- Yeah I am much more willing to wait than if I do not have a, nice beverage

A T F 24:55

and I think, I think people need to realize that, you know, the, fine dining or the, full service, table service dining that we have now, you know, that's evolved over time. and it's evolved in different venues. I mean, the old European way of dining, you, you used to go in and you would sit in the parlor, you'd be sitting in a, a room, like a waiting room basically, and the waiter would take your order there. And then they wouldn't call you into the dining room till your food was about to hit the table, and then you'd walk into the table. So, you know, I think people should be open to different ways of skinning this cat.

A T M 25:25

So I wanna ask you, who is the first person that a guest speaks to when they're on that line?

A T A 25:31

everybody on the team is trained on the counter, and they kind of rotate that position every single day. So there's someone working at the counter every single day. We have a designated food runner, two designated sommeliers, two people that are in charge of the patio, and someone back waiting the entire restaurant, as well as two managers on the floor. So, we believe that, it's really important today to make sure your dining room is just as capable as your kitchen. Uh, it's something that has been forgotten. so we take kind of an old school approach where our managers are trained as old maitre d's were, where they're really measured by how many tables they're touching every night. Uh, random acts of kindness and hospitality, uh, and excitement and energy we can add to the dining room, and I think that's a wonderful way to kind of rethink some of the pressures the restaurants were feeling, right? I think it's hard to overstate. We came out of COVID. There were a lot of conversations about the restaurant, industry needing to

A T M 26:25

The model. The model

A T A 26:26

and how it didn't work. And Tracy and I, when we sat together, we said, "Hey, like, I think this is where the world's gonna go. Let's try and do something different." And the biggest risk we saw was not taking a big enough risk with the business model because it was not interesting to us to have a restaurant where we were serving the restaurant all the time. The restaurant has to serve us as owners at some point, and our team.

A T M 26:49

Birdies is your first

A T A 26:50

is your first restaurant, right? It is our first restaurant.

A T F 26:51

Wh- when did it

A T M 26:52

up-

A T A 26:54

2021.

A T M 26:55

So the advantage you have when it's your first restaurant is you don't have as much to lose. Yeah. And I, I remember when we opened our first restaurant, everybody, it called us courageous. And I was like, That wasn't courageous." Opening the second one was the, much scarier- Yeah because now I, now I have a first restaurant to lose, there was a lot involved in that

A T T 27:15

Yeah.

A T F 27:16

we opened our first restaurant, you didn't have a family yet.

A T M 27:18

I didn't have any money.

A T F 27:19

And you, and you guys, like w- when you have something to lose, it make, it's a much higher stakes poker event

A T T 27:25

And what's funny about that is my late grandfather, Phil Aiello, who you were just speaking about, um, Italian immigrant, came over with a quarter in his pocket. Right before he passed away at 95, six years ago, I said, "Grandpa, you know, been working hard in restaurants my whole life, you know, in New York doing the grind. Our job, and I really wanna open our own restaurant, but I'm, you know, what if we fail?" And he just looked at me, and like, I looked at his face and everything he's gone through in his life, and he just goes, "Kid, what do you got to lose?" Right. And I was like, "You're right. I'm being a total idiot." Yeah. Like, let's just open this restaurant.

A T M 27:56

we look at this country, You're coming over, nothing in your pocket, just coming over. My great-grandparents came over, and two of the artifacts we have in our restaurant are the two prized possessions they brought with them from Italy. One was the, the crusher destemmer. You know, a little hand-cranking

A T F 28:13

crusher, wine

A T T 28:14

it.

A T M 28:15

And the other was the vinegar pot so they didn't lose the mother vinegar, because that was... I'm like, "These are your two most treasured properties. I need to value these as well, as much as you did that you carried them from the old world

A T F 28:29

to honor that tradition, that's why we make our own vinegar. You know, that's, that's one of the reasons we, we, we do that. And, and that, and that wine press is now on display in Catherine Lombardi restaurant,

A T T 28:37

Super cool. In Jersey. We gotta make it out to Jersey and check this

A T F 28:40

Yeah. We, we ha- you have to. We, uh, we would love to host you at the

A T M 28:43

So so one of the reasons I ask you the questions the way I ask you the questions is because I think that people need to go into your model, if they're gonna emulate you, they need to go in carefully. Francis and I were at a restaurant just recently, very similar stylistically from what it sounds like you- Theoretically theoretically from what you have. And the first encounter with the first person was with the least hospitable person we were going to talk

A T F 29:08

Right, and they didn't make sure the line was joyful, and you've already talked about making sure that that line is a positive experience

A T A 29:13

But I, I think it's also, like, you know, I think restaurants at the end of the day are reflections of your values, your culture. And I think, you know, one thing that's, uh, really important to us is our hiring process. It's pretty intense, so is our training process. Um, we tend to find more success hiring from maybe s- people from coffee, uh, rather than people who've worked in fine dining their whole careers, because it's really hard to unlearn and break those old habits, right? Um, you know, one of the things I'm really proud of is, like, we pay attention to that. But, you know, uh, we don't, uh, tend to hire people who aren't hospitable and can't work that station.

A T M 29:46

I, I, I will say that we do the same thing. Yeah. But sometimes you gotta fire somebody 'cause you did it wrong. Mm-hmm. 'Cause, 'cause you did it wrong. Yeah. That happens.

A T T 29:54

It's not always the right fit. No. Yeah.

A T F 29:55

Well, the thing is, you, you can... W- I think Danny Meyer said, you know, "You can teach skills, you can't teach nice." Yeah. Right? and I can teach you how to do things, but if you're a jerkoff, I, I can't teach you not to be a jerkoff.

A T T 30:08

Yeah. I worked with him for five years.

A T M 30:10

Right.

A T A 30:10

one of the things that's been really exciting for I think the both of us is the restaurants across the country now that have spent time with us, as they come out of their kind of COVID era leases, a lot of people are rethinking how they want their restaurants to feel as operators, right? I think restaurants are hard, but restaurants are incredibly beautiful places where incredibly important magic happens every day. You get to see the best of humanity. Absolutely, there's some, you know, bad apples along the way, but, you know, I really believe, I'm really bullish on restaurants right now in this world we live in, and the power they have to kind of put and glue people together in a world that seems like it's breaking apart. but it's really important that we build restaurants that are sustainable for us as owners first, because you cannot take care of your team, you cannot take care of your guests if you as an owner are under so much pressure that you're worrying about how, you're gonna open the doors tomorrow. and then that pressure has to start with your bottom line. You have to think about new and improved ways to say, "You know what? It's not good enough to have 3%, 5%, 8% margin. What does the world have to look like for me to get to 15, 20, 25?"

A T M 31:13

by the way, if you can tell me what that world has to look like, I would love for you

A T T 31:16

Come to Birdies that'd be

A T A 31:17

Yeah, I mean, counter service has unlocked a lot of that, and, you know, the point I was trying to make is that, you know, we've had people come visit us, and there's some proof of concept now. There's a restaurant in DC called Rye Bunny that just opened that is, you know, borrowing and inspired by our model. They're obv- obviously adapting it to what they want to do. But Jon and Jill have really kind of bought into this model, and the restaurant's doing incredibly well. And, you know, I think we sometimes overstate or overfear what guests are willing to do. But if you have a great product and a great experience, people are more often than not willing to give it a shot, and then you have an opportunity to make them regulars,

A T M 31:54

I think you've, totally hit on why your model is working for you. you've created something that clearly, and I haven't been there and I can't wait to go, but clearly you're, you've created a great product, and clearly you guys have a sensitivity and a sensibility. I look at your resumes, and they're amazing, with amazing people and amazing tutors and mentors for you guys to learn about hospitality and great food and making great food. But you can't skip that step. Nope. You, you can't skip that step. Yeah but the step of food's gotta be great, product's gotta be great, people gotta feel like they're wanted, this is a place where I'm gonna really enjoy myself. Those are steps you can't skip.

A T A 32:35

Yeah, and that doesn't mean that it's not tough. You we've tried to build a culture where people are pushed to be great every single day, and that requires a level of Tabari-Dani-ism constant gentle pressure, where they know you're watching, that you care, that you're driving the ship towards a destination, right? you can't be rudderless with your love, one of the things that we say to the team is, "We're gonna give you a lot, and we're gonna allow you to have a life outside of this, place. But when you're here, we expect that you're present, and that you give to this restaurant what we're trying to give to you," which is just a level of commitment, a level of energy, and a level of buy-in to this idea that, like, our restaurant is the first of its kind. And because it's the first of its kind, we have a responsibility to set a template for everyone who follows or wants to be inspired by it, or takes the idea and says, "You know, I don't wanna do counter service," but they, they make a good point about having to rethink the model. "Let me think about what that looks like for me." We never tell people, "You have to do this," or whatever, like, we just say, "Hey, this is our story. this is what we've learned, and if you're interested, our doors are open. Come

A T F 33:36

let's talk about we're here in Houston at the- Yeah Southern Smoke Festival, which is great, and it's great that you're here. But your restaurant is in Austin, so a very different city in Texas, and in the country, a very open-minded city, a very artistic city. How is Austin different than Houston, Was that the right city to choose on purpose for this model?

A T T 33:55

You know it's funny because I'm an H-town girl. I was born and raised here, went to University of Houston for hotel and restaurant management, and I love, love Houston.

A T M 34:04

So you might know a little something about it."

A T T 34:05

A little something. I mean, I haven't lived here since 2004, but it's an amazing, incredible, uh, food city. I love the humans here. It's awesome. I think, however, you know, we met in New York, and I considered Houston, but there was something about Austin that just felt right for what we wanted to do. and, you know, whenever you make a decision and the logistics make sense, like for example for us, being an entrepreneur, Texas is a fantastic place to be. And so it was like, okay, we can really mold and create the restaurant we want without a lot of limitations, so Texas makes sense as a whole. And then Austin did feel right from that kind of artistic do something different, aspect. Um, it was small enough we could get in a little neighborhood, um, on the east side, 'cause I really wanted a place that felt like a neighborhood. little corner spot, and like everything about the space just in our gut we were like, "This is it."

A T A 34:54

And, and I would add that, like, I think people in Austin already have, like, a propensity to be comfortable with counter service. Like, barbecue is counter service, has been for a long time. People are used to waiting in lines. tacos, you know, in a food trailer, kind of like the same idea. We were very much inspired by a couple of restaurants we saw in LA that were doing a version of counter service during the day. The opportunity we saw was, how do we adapt this to our tastes? How do we do it with the kind of food Tracy wants to do? how do I do this with a wine list I'm passionate about? But the element that cannot be lost, it needs to be, quite frankly, twice as sticky, is the hospitality piece. The part of it that's like, "You know what? There's maybe a little bit of friction here when I sit down, but once I sit down, it's absolutely worth it, memorable, and I feel seen." You know? Hospitality to me has always been about, making sure people feel listened to and heard, and seen in a world that's... people don't often get seen in. You know what I mean? And, we try and teach our, our dining room team in particular, like, be great listeners. Be active listeners.

A T M 35:57

You would be amazed, I'm talking to the listeners now, at how much information you can glean from a three-minute, what seems like a not intimate conversation. How much information you can glean from that person and, and how well you can understand what they need and what they're looking

A T A 36:14

Yeah, agreed

A T F 36:15

So I want to turn the conversation in the few minutes we have left to the food. And I want to ask you, Tracy, about what is your mission? What's the food there? What's the mission of the food? What, what are people going to expect when they, when they visit Birdie's in Austin?

A T T 36:28

well I think diving into the mission, another part of the reason we chose counter-service is I worked in fine dining in New York for 13 years. As a cook I was making, at that time, like 25K, and my captain friends were making, like, 125K. And they were amazing professionals, but I thought that pay disparity was just way too wide. And so something we do at Birdie's because of that, and me having that sentiment of wanting to change that, really was, like, another inspiration in in terms of Birdie's. So the background, the mission is still cooking fine dining food, seasonal American inspired, a lot of Italian and French influences. that's my wheelhouse, my passion. And we change the entire menu, top to bottom, every four weeks. So this month we're Aiello's in honor of my late grandfather, Brooklyn red sauce joint. Which

A T A 37:12

explains the hat

A T T 37:13

Explains the hat. Next month we're gonna be autumn harvest, so really inspired by just typical, traditional, craveable fall flavors. In December, Bistro Remy, named after our son. We transform into a, like, a French bistro. beef bourguignon, and then it's like big Christmas vibes with Christmas lights and all of the feelings like you're in a European market. So literally every four weeks it's a totally different

A T F 37:36

so

A T T 37:36

It's

A T F 37:37

menu only?

A T A 37:37

Now it is, Yeah.

A T T 37:39

Now it is, yeah. Yes, now it is. We shifted two Aprils ago to this format. Okay. And then if you wanna add on a couple more things, we usually have more things if you're really hungry and adventurous. All right. Um, but it's super fun. It keeps our cooks engaged. Shifting from a la carte to prix fixe has allowed us to really elevate our cuisine.

A T M 37:54

And realize you're doing that at a time when most of us are switching from prix fixe menu to à la carte. when you talk about turning things on their head, for a long time Stage Left offered a three-course, a five-course, a seven-course tasting menu. And where we are, it just was not tolerant of that type of a menu anymore. And so now we offer this big à la carte menu, But that's adventurous in, in and of its own. That's a... You've taken on some, a real challenge in doing that, and I love that, to hear that you're successful with that, because I think losing tasting menus, we lost a big, big part of really enjoying great meals cooked by really talented people

A T A 38:37

it's a good point, the challenge for me with tasting menus has always been I'm sitting here for two and a half hours. There's a lot of pomp and circumstance around this meal, And it's really about the restaurant, it's not about the diner. And I think what we've tried to do is, you know, we offer six courses for $79, which, you know, we think about

A T M 38:53

Super

A T A 38:53

affordability, approachability, approachable luxury, like, all the time, you know? And I think that's as much as a, a steak costs at most steakhouses,

A T M 39:02

But you've taken a three-hour, six-course tasting menu average- 30 minutes so

A T A 39:06

So it's, the turn is just as long as our a la carte. Uh, we don't add, there's no time added to it. but what it's done is it's done us a couple things. Tracy will talk about, I it's really, it was really her pushing us to do it. I think one of the unlocks has been like, hey, we've proven this model out for a la carte restaurants, right? Now we've proven this out for prix fixe restaurants and tasting menu restaurants, to say, "Hey, like, both of these things can operate as a counter service restaurant." You just have to be really committed to your craft, right? Because the food is incredible, and that's what drives everything we do. yes, the wine list is great. Yes, our hospitality is great. but it's the sum of its parts, like anything else, and, we've really paid attention to those details because it's who we are.

A T M 39:46

That's awesome

A T F 39:46

that was, a great conversation. I'm sorry we haven't yet been to Birdies in Austin, but

A T M 39:51

but- I haven't yet been to Austin

A T F 39:52

You haven't been to Austin. Yeah, yeah.

A T T 39:53

Oh. There you go. Not yet. not yet.

A T F 39:55

not yet. so you folks, when you wanna go to Birdies in Austin, speak to Arjav and Tracy. sounds like a really cool, uh, concept. We can't wait to visit. Thanks for coming on the restaurant, guys.

A T A 40:03

Thanks for

A T T 40:04

having us. Thanks

A T M 40:04

for being here with

A T A 40:05

being a part of Southern Smoke. This is like, um, one of the most meaningful weekends, I think, for us as restaurateurs. but also the people that walk through the halls of our restaurant every week, and it's a lovely thing for you guys to be here, both supporting and also using it as a megaphone for all the people that support this

A T F 40:20

100%, and

A T M 40:21

become a really important part of our year

A T F 40:23

That's become a really important part of it. And of course, you can all find out about the Southern Smoke Foundation, which does a lot of really good work, and we'll put that up on our website, and we'll give you the link and, tell you about all the good stuff they do a little bit later. We'll be back in just a moment. You can always find out more about the Restaurant Guys at restaurantguyspodcast.com.

S C F 40:36

Okay, so for our next victims, we have Shuai and Cory Wong from Jackrabbit Philly and King Barbecue in Charleston. We visited their restaurant. We had a great time, and it's happy to have you here in Houston.

Track 3 40:47

Oh, we love it here.

Track 2 40:48

are thrilled to be here. This is our, our literally favorite food city in the entire country. We love it here.

Track 3 40:53

Well, that's funny 'cause ours is Charleston. No. Let me tell you-

S C F 40:57

Let me tell people a little bit more about you. Um, what, what I had written in the inter- intro was you had an interesting business plan. You started by opening a food truck. Uh, you opened a restaurant three months before a global pandemic. Uh, you opened another restaurant, it caught on fire. and you went on and, uh, then you went on Top Chef, and somehow you have stayed married, stayed in business, stayed happy, and are doing cool stuff.

Track 2 41:19

Yeah, we still

S C F 41:20

of a story.

Track 4 41:21

...each

Track 2 41:21

Yeah we still like each other. Yeah, I guess

Track 4 41:22

Cori still likes me.

S C F 41:23

Yeah.

Track 2 41:23

days, most days.

Track 3 41:24

How we discovered you, we had a friend from Charleston who took us to Tattooed Moose.

Track 4 41:29

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Track 3 41:30

and so we had lunch there. Okay. And then he's like, "You know, there's a cool little neighborhood here. Let's go here." And we went in and we stumbled into Jackrabbit Philly. Yeah. And we're like, "What is

Track 2 41:42

Yay. Yes.

S C F 41:45

Yeah, we didn't find you from a press release. We found you from your front door

Track 3 41:48

Yeah

Track 2 41:49

which is crazy, 'cause it's a very small sign, too. So people are constantly like, "What is this?" As much, as big as we, you know, get in this little world, like, people still have no idea who we are, and it's kinda wonderful.

Track 4 42:00

Yeah.

S C F 42:01

Well, I wanna start off asking you about a cocktail that your guys introduced us to that changed our lives. I'm a

Track 3 42:08

It changed my life.

Track 2 42:09

Oh, I love

S C F 42:09

we're deep in cocktails for 35 years. Rarely do I go in and have a bartender say, "Have you ever had a Shakerato?" I'm like, "No, what's a Shakerato?" And I'm like, "How in the world-

Track 2 42:20

How

Track 3 42:20

did we never have

Francis 42:21

how did we never have that? And so I love amaro. Mark will have one occasionally. We both were blown away.

S C F 42:26

Will you tell our audience what a Shakerato is?

Track 2 42:29

I absolutely will. And it's funny because there's a big story behind this as well, but a shakerato is essentially amaro, like hard shaken and served, like frothy and icy and delicious.

Track 3 42:40

And

Track 2 42:40

And delicious. And delicious. And I can't take any credit for it, but it is what got our beverage director his job. Oh. I went to kinda go like secret shop on him, and he knew I was coming in. But he was like, "Have you ever had a shakerato?" And I was like, "No." And he made me one,

Track 4 42:54

like, "You are hired."

S C F 42:55

You know, that's

Track 3 42:56

And it's not just good, it's good for you.

Track 4 42:58

Yeah, exactly.

Track 2 42:59

my

S C F 42:59

Well, and you know what's funny?

Track 4 43:01

in it

S C F 43:01

We, we can, we can admit this 'cause he didn't take us up on it, but we offered him a job trying to hire him away from you. Oh. No, we didn't, we didn't do that actually. All right, so

Track 2 43:08

know,

S C F 43:09

So Mark and I have a, have a, have had a little bit of a, a difference of opinion on remembering exactly the right, the way he made it. I thought it was a whip shake, where it was just a couple of cubes shaken till it's gone, and Mark thinks it was just

Track 3 43:21

Shake, shake, shake, shake, shake until it's cold

Track 4 43:24

Somebody call Will.

S C F 43:25

All right, so we've talked a lot about people who are going on, television shows and, we don't talk about that as much anymore. but this was an important thing for you. It was an important thing for your life. It... I've read that it caused you some reflection and sort of changed your perspective on things, and I think one of the interesting things to talk about is how it affects you. So what, what happened with that?

Track 4 43:46

gosh. Yeah. Well- Well,

Track 2 43:48

I don't know. I'll kick it off and you butt in. we don't watch any of those shows- Right 'cause we feel too traumatized by the act of running restaurants. Um, but-

Track 3 43:56

so much- We, we get it

Track 2 43:57

but they asked Shuai, and it's one of those things that you know you just don't turn it down.

Track 4 44:02

Yeah. They reached out to me. I didn't apply. They reached out to me. Uh, actually they reached out to me for season 21 for, uh, Wisconsin and, uh, I went through the interview process, but, uh, I did not get picked, and they reached out to me again the season after. I was very iffy about it, 'cause I'm not c- I'm not a competitive person. one of those people who always thinks that everyone should get a participation trophy,

Track 3 44:23

you're younger than

Track 4 44:24

am. I don't know. I just... Uh, we thought when we g- went on the show it would be very, would've been very good for business, you know? we had to fire at King's, so business were a little slow 'cause people didn't realize we're back open. Jackrabbit just was just in this weird time with Jackrabbit. So I decided to do it just because, I knew that was gonna be good for business, 'cause it exposes you to so much more opportunities. Right. And I was dreading it, dreading it, dreading it, and I went on the show, um, met the fellow chefs, and we just clicked. like, we were like lost family almost. Wow. Uh, I I, I can't say e- enough good things about all these chefs. They're just... They're, they're literally our family. We're still on the text chain. We text each other all the

S C F 45:00

Do you find that having gone on the show, that invigorated your cooking when you came back

Track 4 45:05

It, uh, it really inspired me. I was, I felt very stuck, uh, and, and uninspired. you know, you cook food, you cook food for so long. I've been cooking for, like, 20 plus years, and it's hard to find inspiration 'cause not a lot of people are doing new things, you know? Uh, but I went on the show and, like, you know, Chef Tristan, Chef Lana, uh, Paola, Zubair, like Massimo, Catiana, everyone had this, a different style, different technique, different cuisine. I just came out of it so inspired. I came back, we changed the menu right away,

Track 3 45:33

staging with 15 different

Track 4 45:34

gosh, seriously. Yeah. And they worked in some really amazing restaurants and so

S C F 45:39

your perspective right there, 'cause I read you say similar things, and I thought it was great because too often, whether it's food and wine, these contests are all about, "I wanna be better than that chef. I wanna be better than that bartender. I wanna win." And look, you have won some great awards, but your perspective on this was, "Wow, I got to participate with all these people, and it inspired me," and hopefully you inspire them. That's a really interesting

Track 4 46:01

taste Yes, 'cause that's how it felt. You know, there was no... There was competition, but there was friendly competition. Yeah. We all spoke, we all, like, kinda got together and just said like, "Hey, we're not gonna win by Sabotaging sabotaging each other or talking, garbage about each other or whatever. We're gonna help, or we're gonna make sure that we all do our best." Uh, even it's like helping each other out, helping each other buy ingredients, sharing recipes, techniques. We want... I wanna beat you at your best. If I don't beat you at your best, then how do I know that I'm,

Track 3 46:31

w- who cares that I beat you?

Track 4 46:32

chef?

Track 3 46:34

we're flying out here,

Track 2 46:35

Mm-hmm.

Track 3 46:36

so I got my packet of stuff. Yeah. And I'm doing my research on all my

Track 4 46:40

Yeah.

Track 3 46:40

And just in the background, Netflix has a show top 10 of this, the top

Track 4 46:46

goodness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Track 3 46:47

Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, "I'm going to Houston. There's a top 10 barbecue show. Hey."

S C F 46:52

You know those guys?

Track 4 46:53

place. There we

Track 2 46:53

Yeah.

Track 3 46:53

interviewing those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but I got to tell you, I watched the story on King Barbecue. Yeah. And I, I'll tell you, I watched you know, nine other barbecue restaurants in that show. Yeah. And I was like, "I can't wait to get back to Charleston

Track 4 47:07

with y'all." We still have one more-

Track 2 47:09

still haven't watched it. Oh,

Track 3 47:11

I, I got to tell you, the food is so up my alley. It

Track 2 47:15

Oh.

Track 3 47:15

exactly that, that Chinese American- Yeah. Yeah uh, slow cooked beautiful. It's, it, it sang to me.

S C F 47:23

why don't tell us

Track 3 47:23

better not suck when I get there. I'm

Track 4 47:25

I can't promise that. I mean,

Track 3 47:27

yeah.

S C F 47:27

Why don't you tell, why don't you tell us about King Barbecue?

Track 4 47:30

King Barbecue was an ode to Chinatown Barbecue. you know, having moved away from New York and grown up in New York, it's all... Like, every weekend my parents would take us to, Chinatown in Queens, and we'd get... do the grocery shopping and get pounds and pounds of barbecue meat to eat at home, and I really missed that living in the South. There was just, there was, there was none of that available. selfishly did it so I can eat that again. Yeah. Um, but also it's like I didn't want to just do straightforward, 'cause, you know, I like to be creative. So it's, "Oh, we're, we're in the Carolina, let's do Carolina barbecue, with influences of Chinatown Barbecue." So we played a lot with it, 'cause, you know, it was so, it's so unique and, like, you don't... I don't want it to come out gimmicky. Yeah. You know? So, like, it took a long time, but yeah, we're very happy with what

Track 3 48:08

I will tell you that

Track 2 48:10

most

Track 3 48:10

of the best ideas that come into our two restaurants- Yeah come from,

Track 2 48:15

what

Track 3 48:15

I want to do?" Yeah. What d- what would make me have to come to this restaurant? Right. And, and all our best ideas come from that.

Track 2 48:22

Yeah.

S C F 48:22

And just to establish the pedigree here of the restaurants we're talking about, what Mark talked about, you g- you guys get a lot of attention. Your food truck, did I get this right? W- did your food truck win Bon Appétit's 50 best restaurants? Yes.

Track 2 48:33

Yeah.

S C F 48:34

And it was a food truck?

Track 2 48:35

a

Track 4 48:35

yeah, we got that.

Track 3 48:36

Restaurants, I bet you're the only one with four

Track 2 48:39

only- Yeah the only James Beard nod we ever got was for that food truck. I love it.

Track 4 48:44

Yeah, like,

S C F 48:45

you've got the restaurant guy's nod now. So we'll be in Charleston

Track 2 48:48

we wanted Charleston. That's all we wanted.

Track 4 48:50

you, thank

S C F 48:50

All right. We, we are coming to the end of the interview. We've got a, a couple of other folks we have to do, but I wanna quickly say, I had no idea, and so I started looking you guys up to talk about today's show. You're an author, Corey.

Track 4 49:02

yeah

S C F 49:03

So tell us about, you're a writer as well as a, a restaurant person. Because the restaurant, I find restaurants usually lead me to have long periods of quiet contemplation where I might be able to write a book as well. So how do you manage that?

Track 2 49:16

Well, I, I don't know. I think of it as I'm a writer on sabbatical at the moment 'cause there is not a lot of quiet head space in order to write these books. But for a while there I was going, like, one restaurant per one book published. I have ideas and I have things written, but it's a very... I thought restaurant scene was hard, but, like, the writing industry- Right publishing

Track 3 49:35

It's

Track 2 49:35

even worse. It's all a hustle.

Track 3 49:37

it, it's

Track 4 49:38

all-encompassing. Yeah, all art forms.

Track 3 49:39

mor- more things, right

Track 2 49:41

Yep.

S C F 49:41

just, can we quickly plug your two books? I saw that you have City of Beasts, which I want to read now, uh, and The Takedown. Tell us about the two

Track 2 49:47

Tell us about these two books. They're both, I mean, we're living it now, but, like, imagine sort of the future and, like, do lots of research and, like, I really like technology and, So one is kind of a techy thriller and one is, like, a little bit, dystopian, I guess. But, like, I didn't know we were gonna enter a pandemic when the dystopian one came out, you know? Like, it's just, if there could be worse timing for publishing, I would have it, but I'm very proud of them and they still exist in this world, so,

S C F 50:10

Well,

Track 2 50:11

you for asking. Well, I, I...

S C F 50:12

one dork always loves another,

Track 2 50:13

so- See? I think you guys are very cool. I was gonna say, I feel like I found my people.

S C F 50:17

cool. Listen, we love you guys. Uh, we'll see you when we're in Charleston at

Track 3 50:20

Yeah, for sure we will

Track 2 50:21

You must,

S C F 50:21

and, uh, thanks for taking the time out of this very busy day to talk to

Track 4 50:24

Thank you for

Track 2 50:25

happy to. Thank you, guys.

S C F 50:26

Ciao. You can find out more about them and about us at RestaurantGuysPodcast.com. Don't go away

SWeiss F 50:30

Hey, we are back here with Samantha Weiss. Along with her partner Kelly Jacques, she has the Ayu Bakehouse in New Orleans. New Orleans is one of the other places where The Restaurant Guys often records on site, so it's great to have you here. I'm sorry we missed you there. the Ayu Bakery is pretty unique. and some of the things that we read about it that we have to really talk to you about are the, uh, the Croissant King Cake, which you have only for Carnival season, and the Boudin Boy, uh, which I need to talk to you about the Boudin Boy. I have strong feelings about boudin. And you also make a alligator bread, I understand. Very interesting

SWeiss S 51:05

Mm-hmm,

SWeiss M 51:06

So welcome to the show

SWeiss S 51:07

for having

SWeiss M 51:07

And here's the part of the, that you need to know. Okay. Ready? So last time we were in New Orleans, we threw a beefsteak

SWeiss F 51:15

We, we recorded a podcast live in front of 100 people. We threw an awesome party with a beefsteak,

SWeiss M 51:19

But we had no bread.

SWeiss S 51:22

Mm.

SWeiss M 51:22

So we called our friend T. Martin, at Commander's Palace, and we said, "We need to get some really good bread from down there. Where should we go?" And she gave us the name of your bakery. Great. And you made us a holigator for our crudité board. So you have been represented by The Restaurant Guys in New Orleans at an event.

SWeiss F 51:44

And to the listeners who attended that live, that challigator that you ha- challigator bread that you had, which is a challah bread that looks like an alligator, that's amazing.

SWeiss M 51:53

It was

SWeiss F 51:53

of that

SWeiss S 51:54

I mean, I think we were going into Thanksgiving one year, and we were thinking, like, "What would be a great centerpiece for a table?" And had drawn a blank, and then one, the, one day Kelly just swings the door open to my office and says, "I've got it. Let's do a challigator." And I was like, "That's genius."

SWeiss M 52:12

was genius. I have to tell you, it was the most spectacular looking bread that we have ever served, without, without a doubt.

SWeiss F 52:20

so Julie, who's our director of operations, arou- around here somewhere, she found it, 'cause she finds all the cool stuff. And we were like, "That is ama-" So she got all the credit until we met you, right? And but she, we laid it out with our charcuterie, which was for after the podcast, people were gonna come out and could have the charcuterie and they could have the alligator. She stood over that alligator and was like, "Don't touch that bread. Don't y- everybody's gotta see the bread before you touch the bread." It was awesome. It was really

SWeiss S 52:41

Yeah, 'cause if you take the tail away or if you take the head

SWeiss F 52:44

It doesn't look like a

SWeiss M 52:44

just a holla. Now it's just a holla

SWeiss F 52:47

it's just a hollow. Uh, okay. So I wanna talk to you about something else that you do that's seasonal and, uh, interesting, and we wanna further our relationship with. You do a king cake croissant, right?

SWeiss S 52:58

Yeah, I mean, it's a laminated dough, so it is a croissant dough.

SWeiss F 53:02

Right

SWeiss M 53:04

Everybody would have laminated

SWeiss S 53:05

Oh, sorry. I mean, you take, you've got dough, butter, dough, butter, just layers of, European butter in there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

SWeiss F 53:15

and so tell us about the king cake. And many of our listeners don't know what a king cake is or what the tradition is. Can you lay that out for folks?

SWeiss S 53:21

I always tell everybody that you do not understand what Mardi Gras is if you don't live in New Orleans or if you haven't experienced it firsthand, and what the king cake craze is. you know, you'd think December/Christmastime is a big time for places in the, in the pastry world. But in New Orleans it's king cake season,

SWeiss F 53:41

So, so king cake is the cake where you bake a little baby Jesus inside the cake

SWeiss S 53:46

So we don't do that. Okay. We, um, roll out a fondant, like, gold bean. we try to be as sustainable as possible, so we try to remove the plastic product. when king cakes originated, they would use some sort of Fève, and so a g- a bean might have been it. Okay. And so we decided, well, why don't we just paint it gold? Instead of, like, a gold coin, we'll do a, a gold bean. And so it is edible, you know, it's just fondant. And so when we used

SWeiss F 54:12

little plastic baby Jesuses, but we recycle them

SWeiss S 54:14

Yeah. We don't throw them out. Good, good.

SWeiss F 54:16

Jesus every year.

SWeiss M 54:17

Except the ones that people eat. We don't ever

SWeiss S 54:19

Yeah.

SWeiss F 54:20

Um, so, that is the beginning. So that happens on the, it's the Feast of the Epiphany, is the 12th day of Christmas. It's, um, in Western tradition, when the, when the Magi discover the baby Jesus, and it was the epiphany of humanity to see Jesus. But the important thing in New Orleans is, that's the big beginning of Carnival season, and from the Epiphany to Lent, that's when you have Mardi Gras. That's when you have the

SWeiss S 54:44

so I think people don't realize, like, it's a whole season. It can be six weeks. It can be eight weeks. Yeah. It's not just Mardi Gras day.

SWeiss F 54:51

Right, and, right, exactly. And it, and it's moved for, based on, because Easter is based on the lunar calendar, so it moves. Well, we have an event coming up. we're gonna have an Epiphany

SWeiss S 55:01

Okay

SWeiss F 55:02

at Stage Left Saint Catherine Lombardi, and it's gonna be the last day of our Christmas Miracle Bar. That'll be the day we take down the decorations. And we're gonna, we're gonna roast a goose. It's gonna be a Dickensian kind of Christmas party, and everything will be traditional, old school, except will you send us a king cake croissant to be in our... It'll be the first... And you only make it during the season, right? That's the first

SWeiss S 55:24

during the season, yeah. That's amazing. And so, ours is just so moist, because you have that laminated dough and because we bake what we s- it's like a cream cheesecake filling. Uh-huh. And so it's very thin in the layers. Like, some people expect there to be a wet experience in there. No, it's, it's this baked experience. It gives a nice little tang. Um, there's a little bit of, like, saltiness in there.

SWeiss F 55:46

So January 6th is the Feast of the Epiphany. Every year we're gonna have a party at Stage Left and Catherine the Bard. You can find that more about that at stagelleft.com/events, and you can come have this thing that we're talking about. All right, boudin. Boudin, is boudin blanc or boudin noir? Noir. Okay, I gotta tell. So boudin noir is a blood sausage.

SWeiss S 56:06

Mm-hmm.

SWeiss F 56:06

Okay, I'm Irish. I eat,

SWeiss S 56:07

I eat, I eat- Yeah I

SWeiss F 56:08

eat, uh, uh, black pudding. Boudin noir is rough, man. How do you make that into a pastry? That's, uh, that's a little rough for me

SWeiss S 56:15

I mean, so I guess we're always trying to take maybe, like, traditional things and put our spin on it, right? So I mean, we get the best Boudin in mild spice version. We cut the casing off. We bake that- Oh sausage on its own, and then we put it in our croissant dough, right? We lay out our croissant dough, put the Boudin out. We soft boil eggs, quarter them, and put them within the dough as well, fold it up, bake it straight. There's no proofing, so there's very crisp layers when it goes into the very hot oven. Um, and then we serve that with a hot peanut chili oil, which is to die for.

SWeiss F 56:53

the only pastry I've ever heard of that has blood as one of the

SWeiss M 56:56

I

SWeiss F 56:57

I've, uh, mad respect. I'm gonna give that a whirl. Um, so talk to us about the Ayu, Bakery and the Ayu Schoolhouse, and you're kind of renowned for how you train your staff and you're doing some cool stuff there. Tell us about that

SWeiss S 57:11

Oh, yeah. I mean, thankfully we're s- we're busy, all year long. Even the summers can be good. Um, but yes, when we have some downtime, we do like to host something called IU Schoolhouse. It began when we, when we opened, we had a lot of young employees coming to us asking how can they start their own business? What books do they need to read? What classes do they need to take? And I was like, "Honestly, you just need to do it," you know? Yeah. And so in the first year, we, put together our own curriculum on, like, here's what marketing looks like. Here's what, PR looks like. Here's what figuring out what your demographic looks like, and helped them put together their own business plans. We had, four teams team up to try and pitch their ideas to us, and, in the end, we green lit one of our staff members who had a El Salvadorian, bakery concept, and we let her do a pop-up at the bakery for five weeks in the evenings, on the weekends, and she was able to keep the profits. Like, that was the whole exer- that was the whole exercise. Yeah.

SWeiss F 58:16

and to put a little background, your background is in finance and your partner is, is the chef, right? So-

SWeiss S 58:21

she's been in bakery since she was 14 years old Right Um, I was in financial services and then switched to the culinary world. The

SWeiss M 58:30

two very different worlds. Just, I don't know if you know that yet,

SWeiss S 58:33

They're very d- I knew day one. I knew day one of working as a pastry cook.

SWeiss F 58:38

But I think it's a, it, it kind of makes you uniquely qualified to have that schoolhouse and to, you have a broader financial perspective than just a very successful bakery and the passion of a bakery. I think that's really g- I would ta- if I were in New Orleans, I would take your class. I would try to go to the

SWeiss S 58:52

Yeah, and at some point we do wanna be able to open it up to the public. You know, we were trying to h- offer a benefit for our staff. if you're gonna take the class, we pay you to take the class. That's

SWeiss M 59:01

Pretty good deal, I think

SWeiss S 59:02

I think, you know, it's, we're in a industry where it's hard to have some extra money on the side to take a class that you have to pay to go to.

SWeiss F 59:10

And you pay your employees to take your

SWeiss S 59:12

Yeah.

SWeiss F 59:13

That's awesome. You're a better boss than I

SWeiss M 59:15

No, you're not. You pay your employees all the time to take your wine

SWeiss F 59:18

Yes, that's true. That's true. But the whole business class on the side, and that, that's very cool.

SWeiss S 59:23

Yeah, and we were like, if at the end you decide, actually you don't wanna do this, that is a great place to land as well, because then you didn't dump a lot of money into trying to chase a dream that- Recognize that might put you in

SWeiss F 59:36

Mark and I did a lot of consulting prior to COVID, People would bring us in early and we'd be like, Don't do this. one guy we said, "Listen, don't do this now. If you think you wanna do this, you need to go get an education in this, and you need to go and work in this kind of place for a year." And we heard back from him a year later, he's like, "Yeah, you were right. I ca- I shouldn't

SWeiss M 59:52

I didn't, I did not, I was not ready and I don't wanna do it

SWeiss S 59:55

Yeah, I mean, I was at lunch yesterday and with a bunch of ladies in the industry, and one was remarking on, you know, how, what the difficulties are that we face now in this industry, and saying that you basically need, like, an MBA in order to navigate all of the hurdles that come our way nowadays

SWeiss M 1:00:14

was, he had one sister who was a judge, another one who was a lawyer. You know, they referred us to a legal team. my brother had an accounting background, so he, he helped us on that. It just, just this unbelievable network of people that we needed- Yeah to start a restaurant 34 years ago. Yeah. And how much harder is it now? Yeah. I mean,

SWeiss F 1:00:33

If I were a young person today, there are so many regulations that, like, you don't get a bill for it, but if you didn't pay the tax for it, and you find out at the end of the year that you missed four quarterly payments, or if you're above this level, you have to pay the

SWeiss M 1:00:45

You were

SWeiss F 1:00:45

more frequently-

SWeiss M 1:00:46

your sales tax quarterly, but now you're at this income level, so now you have to pay it monthly

SWeiss F 1:00:51

And, and if you're a young person trying to open a business, you're like, "Hey, I sell, I'm selling donuts and, and I'm paying my taxes when I thought I was supposed to." Like, "Yeah, sorry, you owe us another $50,000."

SWeiss S 1:01:00

There's no playbook. Yeah.

SWeiss F 1:01:02

Well, you're helping your employees with the playbook. I got one thing about your business that I wanna ask you about, 'cause we're not on it and we don't know. I, and I'm always curious about it. I see a lot of businesses that I respect, um, use GoldBelly, and you're on GoldBelly. What do you ship on GoldBelly and how does that work for you, and why are you doing it, and is it great?

SWeiss S 1:01:20

So, I mean, I, I chose GoldBelly for king cake season, because that's the peak of it, and you can be sending 50 to 100 cakes a day. And so for me, as a small business, with all the other things I had to do, the main thing was dealing with the customer service of the online orders that I could not keep up with when we were doing it on our own. We were doing it on our own, and it was just, you know, it's another thing you have to handle. So working with GoldBelly, it takes that pressure off.

SWeiss F 1:01:51

They order into Gold Belly, Gold Belly tells you what to make, and then Gold Belly picks it up, or you deliver it, or how does that

SWeiss S 1:01:55

Goldbelly's just kinda like the on- You pay on their end yeah, it's like you pay on their site, but I have all the information on my end. We're filling your order, you know. We're baking it, we're packing it. I'm printing the shipping labels. it's getting picked up from my location. but it's just a platform that allows, for at least the customer service portion and for the shipping fees, working with them, they're getting better shipping fees than I would on my own. Okay. Yeah. Well-

SWeiss F 1:02:24

I can't wait. Next time we're in New Orleans, we go to New Orleans to Tales of the Cocktail almost every year, so we're gonna come visit you down

SWeiss M 1:02:29

promise you we'll visit,

SWeiss S 1:02:30

Yeah.

SWeiss M 1:02:31

and we'll probably need another Holigator

SWeiss S 1:02:33

you've been in. I feel like we spoke. I think we-

SWeiss M 1:02:36

I've been in

SWeiss S 1:02:37

Well,

SWeiss F 1:02:37

and if you want to try, some king cake croissant, you can try it at Stage Left Steak January the 6th, at our own, epiphany party. It's gonna be a great time. So you'll be with us before we're with you again, but looking forward to

SWeiss S 1:02:50

our show. Okay.

SWeiss F 1:02:51

You can find out more about IU Bakery and, uh, Samantha and all things New Orleans at restaurantguyspodcast.com. We'll be right back.

1:02:58

So if we're podcasters worth our salt, you just saw how much we enjoyed or were enjoying Southern Smoke, don't you think? I think so. I, I love this festival. We have three more chefs that we want to introduce you to, and we're gonna do that in the next episode of The Restaurant Guys. Kyle Naul from Birch Cassis in Milwaukee was tremendous. Jason Rizek is the caviar guy from Little Oyster down there. He is an attendee of Caviar Camp. Wanna know what Caviar Camp is? You're gonna have to listen to the next show. And we have Leonard Botello from Truth BBQ, one of the best barbecue places we've ever had. If you are a Restaurant Guys regular, if you're a paid subscriber to our show, you can listen to that right now as part of your benefits as being a Restaurant Guys regular. If you're not a paid subscriber, you're gonna have to wait till Thursday, or you could go to RestaurantGuysPodcast.com, support The Restaurant Guys, become a Restaurant Guys regular, join the family. We'd love to have you. Either way, we'll see you next time. I'm Francis Schat. I'm Mark Pascal. We are The Restaurant Guys. Find out more at RestaurantGuysPodcast.com.