MIC2 1:15

Hello everybody, and welcome. You are listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal, and I'm here with Francis Schott. Together we own Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life

MIC1 1:28

And today we will be bringing you that inside track from the Windy City, Chicago, Illinois, where we're gonna interview Chef Brian Lockwood. His restaurant is Gingy. has to be one of the most beautiful restaurants in all of Chicago.

MIC2 1:42

room

MIC1 1:42

They opened up, they were open for a few days, they got shut down by a fire- So hard which had them shut down for several months, and then they reopened again. Rising like a phoenix from the ashes, he's a new kind of Chicago hero chef. He's, uh, impeccably dressed. You can tell that his food is careful just by the way he's dressed. But we'll be talking with him in just a moment. But for now... We made a mistake in the pizza. Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of deep dish pizza, but I, I had, I had two pizza experiences while I was there, and this is by no means well-researched restaurant guys- Mm pizza exploring. This is, "Hey, where are we gonna go to dinner tonight?" 'Cause we wanna leave ourselves open. Yep. And then the other pizza I had was in the airport, and I'm gonna ask the listeners to take a moment and guess where I got the better- deep dish pizza in Chicago.

MIC2 2:26

in Chicago. That's sad to hear, but I know because I had one of the pizzas in the restaurant and, and it was not great, unfortunately. We had a lot of great food while we were in Chicago. Chicago is a great food city, and I even like Chicago pizza.

MIC1 2:41

Yeah. I, I think it's okay.

MIC2 2:42

I enjoy Chicago pizza. I get it, it... You can't think of it as pizza like we know pizza. Right. Right. it's a different thing.

MIC1 2:49

to say, though- But

MIC2 2:50

different thing from the place we went to was a different thing of the

MIC1 2:53

different thing. Well, you g- uh, you can do anything wrong, Mark. You can do anything, you can do anything wrong. And you can certainly do deep dish pizza

MIC2 3:00

know how you make a copy of a copy and then sometimes the second copy didn't come out so good? Well- That's kinda what I felt

MIC1 3:06

I don't know how it's spreading in the rest of the country. I think it is, but the first Detroit-style pizza I had was here in New Jersey, um, from a place called Lo-Fi in Jersey City. uh, we're friends with the owner, and he's like, "I'm bringing Detroit pizza to New

MIC2 3:19

actually a great little place that opened in Cranford. Oh. Uh, a Detroit-style pizza place. It's in a pl- little tiny spot that has gone out of business, like, 10 times in 10 years.

MIC1 3:30

you're saying go there quick? I'm

MIC2 3:31

same building? I'm saying that if it's really good, I'm really pulling for

MIC1 3:35

Yeah, not gonna happen. It's not gonna j- uh, I hope so. In

MIC2 3:38

a delivery world, I think maybe that

MIC1 3:40

could, they could- Well, I- make it in that spot I'm rooting for them, too. But I... So I had never heard of Detroit-style pizza. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, when my friend, said he was gonna bring in Detroit-style pizza to Lo-Fi, I'm like, "What the hell is that?" And it's great, but I'm seeing it everywhere now. Mm-hmm. And it's kinda related to Chicago

MIC2 3:55

Ah, it's so much lighter and fluffier. If it's done right,

MIC1 3:59

The Detroit-style pizza has that crusty cheese on the side. That's- Mm to me, that's Detroit-style pizza. Anyway, I liked it. I went to the airport, I had a little time to kill. Mm. And there was this pizza chain in the airport, and they had the pizzas kinda made and in the warming oven. I was like It looks pretty good. It was a B+, but I need- It

MIC2 4:16

a B+,

MIC1 4:16

not a B+. No, no, the one in the airport, I swear to you, it was a B+. It was a B+. Yeah. And I needed to get the F out of my head- so I wouldn't leave with a bitter view of Chicago. Yeah. And I had a really nice pizza in the airport. The

MIC2 4:28

we went to just, they did so much wrong. Like, from the moment we walked in to the moment we

MIC1 4:34

The lighting was

MIC2 4:35

the service was terrible. The, the lighting was wrong

MIC1 4:38

the, the waiter... Jennifer reminded me before we got on the air, the waiter, the waiter was waiting on a table next to us and had their rag. the

MIC2 4:46

they wiped the table with

MIC1 4:47

they accidentally dropped it on the neighbor's pizza. And, uh... Was that our pizza? Dropped it on... I've just been told it was our pizza. I'd... Oh, oh, did I have any after that, Jen? No. And the, and the-

MIC2 4:57

were done

MIC1 4:57

and the waitress dropped it on our pizza, which was as yet unserved to us. It was on a tray jack next to the table, and she looked at us like, "Oops, sorry," and then walked away. Now, what do you think happens in the kitchen of that restaurant out of sight? I don't wanna know.

MIC2 5:11

It,

MIC1 5:11

It, so- Yeah.

MIC2 5:12

it, it was a less than

MIC1 5:14

sorry than monumental experience. Yeah. But you know what? You gotta have those so it keeps the others in the frame of reference. That's completely true. 100% correct. 100% correct. Listen, we're gonna go to Chicago. We're gonna go to a great restaurant and a great chef, Bryan Lockwood's Gingy, in just a moment, so stick with us. We're going there right now.

Francis 5:30

Hey there, everybody. Welcome back. We are, uh, recording today inside Gingy Restaurant in Chicago. We're with Chef Brian Lockwood. He's chef partner with, uh, Boka Restaurant Group. They do a number of things, but the flagship right now is Gingy, where we had dinner last night, and it was phenomenal. We're here before service today, talking with Chef Brian Lockwood about one of the cornerstones of dining, the brand new though it is in Chicago, and we couldn't be more thrilled to be in your restaurant and you be on our show.

Mark 5:58

Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's a really special

MIC1 6:00

place you have

MIC2 6:01

to be here, guys. Happy to have you.

Francis 6:03

Well, we're happy to be had. Um, I think we should start with the rather dramatic story of Gingy and its eventful opening, and we wanna find out all about you and, and your life and what we're doing here, but tell us about the drama around the beginning of Gingy.

MIC2 6:19

Yeah. So, uh, w- we had a, we had a kitchen fire. We had a grease

MIC1 6:23

little

Brian 6:23

fire. You got a little

Francis 6:23

sad on your face

Brian 6:24

right then- I know when you said that, just

Francis 6:25

so you know.

Brian 6:26

Well, let's, let's

MIC2 6:27

reframe that. I'm so happy to be here, and so grateful for the opportunity to reopen. Um, but yeah, we did have a, we had a grease fire, you know, in, in the hoods, um, three days after we opened.

Francis 6:37

Oh, my

MIC2 6:38

scariest moment I've had in a

Francis 6:41

kitchen. All right. So talk to us, because we have had a couple of small fires in our restaurant, including, you know... But nothing that shut us down for more than a day or two, right? So we never had anything that got out of hand. But one of the things that happens, we've had our Ansul system go off 'cause somebody was being an idiot, and, you know, that shuts you down for a day because it ruins all food. It ruins everything. And you gotta reload the Ansul system. And you gotta... Right.

Mark 7:02

You

Francis 7:02

So how did you discover there was a fire? Take us through that. That's... strikes fear into my heart to

MIC2 7:07

Yeah. So we had a, we had a live fire hearth, and, you know, we have a term for running out of mise en place that I've carried along with me from many places I've worked called a broken arrow. And that's like, you know, usually used if we're running out of chickens or we're, you know, whatever the-

Francis 7:21

So use that in a sentence so

MIC2 7:23

so people- So, so like, yeah, like we, "Hey chef, I have a broken arrow." "What's bro- you know, what is it?" "Oh, we, we don't have chickens marinated." You know, great. So that's what I expected the broken arrow call to be. Mm. Except they said, "We have a really big broken arrow." And it was... I, I said, "What, what is it?" And he said, "There's a, there's a fire in the hoods." So we had a live fire hearth, and one little spark got into the hoods, and you could see the glowing red up in the- Yeah up in the hoods. So, my first reaction was just like, we're, we're in a building with multiple tenants above us, and it was just kinda like, okay, this can get out of control really quick. So we all had to think very fast figure out what to do. And yeah, you know, you grab the fire extinguisher, you pull the Ansel, you call the fire department, and you evacuate the restaurant, and that's what we did. And I have no sense in terms of time how long that took, if it was 60 seconds or if it was five minutes or if it was an hour. You just lose track of time completely. But, we did it efficiently and, And so what happened? Everyone was,

Brian 8:18

Yeah. Everyone was safe. I mean, first and foremost, everyone was safe. Absolutely. The most important thing. And that's all that mattered to me was,

MIC2 8:23

I said, I, I live in, you know, a bigger building, and I do think about being up 10 floors and, you know, just wondering like, okay, I hope nothing happens on the ground floor. So that was, you know, first and foremost, like I said, that's all that was the safety of the tenants, the safety of our neighbors,

Brian 8:39

and the safety- Yeah

MIC2 8:40

the people

Francis 8:40

So what did the fire department have to do to put it out? Did they ruin

MIC2 8:43

They

Brian 8:44

sure did. Yeah. So it was a fire, as stated, in the hoods.

MIC2 8:48

know, which the black iron, the old black iron that was here was snaked up multiple levels and

Brian 8:53

did a 90-degree

MIC2 8:54

turn and then went out. So,

MIC1 8:56

Those 90-degree turns are very

MIC2 8:57

very

MIC1 8:58

tough. Hoods don't like

Mark 8:59

that. Hoods do not like 90-degree

Brian 9:01

turns. They're not even legal in some places. No. No. Yeah. So this was,

MIC2 9:02

Yeah, we had, you know, it was a... We had grandfathered into that program. So, so yeah, they just... They had to find where it was inside the black iron, where the fire actually was. And, in order to do that, they

Brian 9:14

had to tear out- You, you do some tearing out, yeah multiple walls. They

MIC2 9:16

actually ended up, you know, it got so hot that the, the fireproof insulation actually ended up melting and k- and kinda catching on fire. So they ended up splitting into the black iron that's how they

Francis 9:27

and, so you had to re-line the whole hood from here

MIC2 9:29

How did you guys recover? Oh, we had to strip it all out and redo it and... I mean, the minute, you know, it happened, a- any one of my friends and families and loved ones, you know, that I spoke to, I just said, "Look, we have a second chance."

Brian 9:39

Yeah. Yeah. "This

MIC2 9:40

an opportunity. We're gonna rethink how we do it. We're gonna try to do it better

Brian 9:44

Well- So how

Francis 9:44

long were you closed?

Brian 9:45

We

MIC2 9:46

closed? We were closed for five months.

Francis 9:47

So were open three days, closed for five months. Yep. Open back up again. up again. Well, can I tell, I tell, I'll tell you one silver lining that I think of as the owner, right? If you get a hood fire, if I have an operator that gets a hood fire, I think you did something wrong. Mm-hmm. You weren't maintaining your hoods. You didn't get, make sure they were clean right. But you were open three days, you couldn't have done to cause that. And, right, and you're

Mark 10:05

coming into somebody else's-

Francis 10:06

Yeah hazard.

Brian 10:07

Yeah. I

MIC2 10:07

we ha- yeah, we did, we went through all the

Brian 10:09

things

MIC2 10:09

you need to do, had all the inspections, and everything was there. I think it was just,

Brian 10:13

there's things

MIC2 10:14

just happen unexplained, and I think you just have to find the silver lining in situations, and like I said, we, we had It

Francis 10:19

I just have to say that I see that, first of all, the place is beautiful. It's really exactly the kind of elegant... I used the word understated before, and Jennifer corrected me. She's like, "No, it's not understated," but it's not flashy. It's just, like, comfortable. It feels like- It's not flamboyant. It feels it's been here for 100 years. Yeah. Yet it's very contemporary. But, I do know, notice one thing on your line. No more, no more open flame hearth.

Brian 10:42

No

MIC2 10:42

more, no more Open Fire. Um, yeah, that would've been, that would've been a lot longer. I think it was a non-starter

Brian 10:47

really- Yeah ...to get

MIC2 10:48

open

Brian 10:49

and do it again, you know?

Francis 10:49

think it would've been traumatic to look at it every

Mark 10:51

day.

MIC2 10:51

Yeah.

MIC1 10:52

I

Mark 10:52

want to share a story. In my restaurant,

MIC1 10:54

something similar without the dramatic effect. Yeah. I'm sitting at a table just like

Mark 10:58

this with

MIC1 10:59

some, some friends, some, some regulars of the restaurant, a waiter comes uh, I'll, I'll be right back. And I go into the and, minutes later, and know, what, what did that person tell you?" And I said,

Mark 11:17

"Um,

MIC1 11:18

he said the kitchen's on fire."

Mark 11:19

Oh, God.

MIC1 11:21

And luckily, by the time I got to the kitchen,

Mark 11:23

the

MIC1 11:24

was out, and it was not a... You know, the Ansul system didn't go off,

Mark 11:27

we

MIC1 11:27

fine. But it was, it was one of those moments of like, "Nobody's gonna panic." Yeah.

Mark 11:31

Yeah. We're just gonna

MIC1 11:32

see what's wrong

Mark 11:33

one of my questions is, so

MIC1 11:35

besides obviously taking out the, the

Mark 11:37

hearth- else did you take the opportunity to change in that five months? Because now you got three days under your belt, right? Yep. So you know what, gonna get in what else do you change in that

MIC1 11:47

time period?

MIC2 11:47

I mean, honestly, we just refocused on training

Brian 11:50

and-

MIC2 11:50

just building the team and, you know, all the things that, you go through, but it's just such a whirlwind. It happened so quick. we did change, you know, a little bit of the format of the line as, as we walked through today. You know, r-replacing the hearth with some ovens and then getting an extra piece of stove, so just a stronger, you know, kitchen battery, if you will, um, for both prep and then service. But, but a big part of this restaurant, I mean, you guys walked the kitchen with me, it is, it is small, and I know you guys have had smaller kitchens, and there are plenty of smaller kitchens, but it is a very small kitchen for the food

Brian 12:22

we're

Mark 12:22

doing.

Brian 12:22

So-

Mark 12:22

Well, it, especially when you start talking about right? You need a lot of people.

Brian 12:27

Yeah.

Mark 12:27

So the, the smallness

MIC1 12:29

isn't

Mark 12:29

problem.

Brian 12:30

Yeah.

Mark 12:30

The problem is how many people you put in the smallness.

Brian 12:32

Right. Right. Well,

MIC2 12:33

and a lot of it's just the prior preparation. a lot of it's just the prep, and so we really re-engineered the kitchen in a way where it was a bit stronger for prep, functionality. We're dinner only right now. Yeah. I think those were the, the two, you know, real things, and then it was just the cohesiveness of the team, like I said. I mean, we did retain all of our leadership,

Brian 12:51

you know- That's amazing. Yeah throughout that

MIC2 12:52

time, and a good portion of our team. You know, some of our team were

Brian 12:56

in other Boca

MIC2 12:56

restaurants

Brian 12:57

decided-

MIC2 12:57

that they were happy there and were able to stay, which was great, but we were able to retain a lot of people,

Brian 13:01

we focused on that. So how do you do

Mark 13:02

that? How do you, how do you keep months?

Brian 13:05

Well,

MIC2 13:05

we, manage another property, here in Chicago, and so we did open up another restaurant with one of the other chef partners, Chris Pandell. So we were able to actually go, and that team was able to open a second restaurant. So within six months, they opened three restaurants.

Francis 13:18

There have been a number of restaurants who've kind of started off, as a, you know, a phoenix rising from the ashes. I mean, The Dead Rabbit was opened in a hurricane, right? And they had a flood and then a fire, and they went on to do great things. And Chicago's really celebrating you. I mean, you know, you're... Everybody's rooting

Mark 13:33

you, right? Yeah, yeah.

Francis 13:34

It's

Mark 13:34

true. There, wasn't there,

Brian 13:34

there's-

MIC2 13:34

very true. It feels great.

Mark 13:35

there's big mural of a phoenix up in that s-

Brian 13:37

There is, yeah.

Mark 13:38

pretty amazing that, they've already already incorporated

MIC1 13:40

your story into the Chicago, you know-

Mark 13:42

Ethos. Yeah. Yeah.

Francis 13:43

So tell us about w- um, we, we love Dinner. We love the dining room, we love the place, and it was so nice to have... that you came over to our table last night, which was great. why this place? what are you communicating? What do people need to know if they're coming to Chicago.

MIC2 13:55

Look, it's a beautiful neighborhood, River North, you know. I mean, I'm, I'm pretty new to Chicago. I've been here two years. But River North was, you know, a, a really huge neighborhood prior to COVID, I think. You know, then it kind of changed a little bit during COVID. So I think River North

Brian 14:09

is, in

MIC2 14:09

particular, just a really exciting neighborhood, a lot coming back right now. It's having a little bit of a resurgence. A lot of great neighboring restaurants here. Asador Bastian's down the street. Um, we got Petite Adieth nearby, which is one of Jenner's restaurants, and The Austin, you know, close by. So just a lot of great...

Brian 14:26

you

MIC2 14:26

Indian right here too, another Michelin-starred restaurant. So like, just a

Brian 14:29

good

MIC2 14:30

community of chefs in the neighborhood.

Francis 14:32

what do you want people to experience when they walk in the door here and eat

MIC2 14:35

I just want people to have fun. I want people to have fun. I want people to at first say, "This is delicious."

Brian 14:39

Oh. You know? Yeah. Like, I do think, some

MIC2 14:42

technicality to the food and, you know, ingredients are fun and, seasonality to it, but like first and foremost, it has to

Brian 14:48

be

Francis 14:49

Yeah.

Brian 14:49

and and

MIC2 14:49

and first and foremost on top of that is like It's

Francis 14:52

know-

Brian 14:52

It's gotta be fun

Francis 14:53

just wanna make a small point, what you said about the food first and foremost, it has to be delicious, we find that even in super high-end restaurants, f-the first and foremost has switched to it's gotta be beautiful Instagrammable. Right. Yeah, I,

MIC1 15:04

you know, the old

Mark 15:04

expression eyes first.

Brian 15:06

Yeah, yeah.

Mark 15:06

But you don't eat with your eyes

MIC1 15:08

only.

Francis 15:09

Yeah and Very true. And, or you don't eat with your iPhone

MIC1 15:12

first.

MIC2 15:13

That's

Francis 15:13

true. That's problem. We've had a lot of really expensive, beautiful food that was meh. Yeah. You know?

MIC2 15:19

But it's also like, that's what's so hard, guys. Food's subjective, right? Yeah. Like, what's delicious? Your delicious is different than my delicious

Brian 15:24

Yeah is different than your delicious. So like-

Francis 15:26

what? I think we think that chef in some- Yeah of these places knows that it's only pretty good, but it's beautiful, Yeah. Uh, I, I think- Yeah, yeah.

Mark 15:32

Well, if you spend 80% on it looks like- Right and 20% on what it tastes like- True that's not the formula. Yeah.

Brian 15:38

For sure.

Mark 15:38

Uh, so here's a question.

MIC1 15:39

I, you know, we're talking about Chicago here.

Mark 15:42

You've worked in a lot of other cities in this-

MIC1 15:44

in, in, in this country- Yep

Mark 15:46

right at, at some really, really

MIC1 15:47

terrific places. What's different about Chicago?

MIC2 15:51

mean,

Brian 15:52

Chicago is- unique? it's very

MIC2 15:54

community driven, right? I think just like any of the top tier cities that are out

Brian 15:58

there,

MIC2 15:58

you know, New York is, is obviously one of them. LA is a great community of, you know, dining, s- you know, San Francisco. But I think what makes Chicago so special is, is just like, it is a very tight-knit community of people. They support local. They, you know, they support each other. Look at the sports

Brian 16:14

here. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like I

MIC2 16:16

feel like that's

Brian 16:17

Chicago at its core-

MIC2 16:18

is it's like they're...

Brian 16:19

you're

MIC2 16:19

a diehard one of them. Sox, Bears, you know, Bulls, doesn't matter. Cubs. But like, pick your team. But, um, you know, that's, that's kind of the, the ethos, and that's how it feels here. Um, and then, yeah, just, I mean, you know, to have this many people support this many restaurants

Brian 16:34

Yeah and to truly support

MIC2 16:35

them, I mean, it's, it's extraordinary.

Francis 16:37

I had a conversation this morning when, in the hotel, I was staying with a friend of ours who i- is in charge of an international restaurant group- and they have a restaurant here in Chicago, and they have restaurants in a couple European cities and New York and Boston. he said, "Well, you know, when we came to we sent in a European management to run the, the kitchen." And he's like, that didn't fly." Yeah. He said, "We had sent in a European management team to launch New York and to launch and they great."

Brian 17:04

Yeah.

Francis 17:04

But it did not work Chicago. We could send the New York team in to run Chicago-" Yeah but he said just there's a, different of camaraderie that be great, but play it wrong. Do you find that?

MIC2 17:14

100%. I

Brian 17:15

I've been here two

MIC2 17:16

years, and I feel like it takes time,

Francis 17:18

yeah. But is there a different kind of way that people are here that there's, Like, there's a New Orleans way of doing things. Yeah. Like, you cannot go to New Orleans and eat like you do in New York. Very different than the New York way of doing things. 100%. Is there a way

Brian 17:26

of doing things? There

MIC2 17:26

100%. And it takes time to learn it, and like I said, it takes time to earn it. you know, I mean, you guys are operated and worked in restaurants your whole lives, too. You know how it is.

Brian 17:34

Like, you earn it every day. Mm-hmm. It doesn't

MIC2 17:36

matter what

Brian 17:36

done

MIC2 17:37

before, you gotta show up every day and deliver, and that's no different in this city. But I think it's maybe a bit more impactful here than, you know, or, or present than, than it is in but it's a great community of people. I'm so happy to

Francis 17:50

Well, one of the things that we noticed about this place... So first of all, the decor is phenomenal. Who designed this place?

MIC2 17:55

Uh, Anna Filatov.

Francis 17:57

Um- Yeah the design is tremendous, and, uh, the bespoke furniture that fits into the banquettes is all... Again, it feels like it built-

Mark 18:04

Yeah 100 years ago. I, I love the dining room, the bar is extraordinary.

Francis 18:08

Yeah.

Mark 18:08

Yeah. That whole bar room is just an e- Yeah it's an extraordinary room.

Francis 18:11

Let's describe it folks who can't see it right now. So you have, you have bar stools. and you have some kind of high tops, and then you have these... we noticed this, right? People may not know what's going on. You have upholstered banquettes that feel like they're dining room, but they are a little bit higher on very substantial legs- Yeah with a bar rail under them, so it's kind of like a bar stool- Yeah but also feels like you're in the dining room. Yeah. Absolutely unique. Never seen anything exactly like that before, and it's just one of those details that I think makes the bar-

MIC2 20:06

Yeah. it's beautiful I mean, hearing you guys call it timeless makes

Brian 20:10

so happy. I think that's like, you

MIC2 20:13

know, one of the reactions we had initially coming in and, you know, was just people saying like it, that it felt like it had been here. Yeah. And it felt like it belongs, and it feels like it could be here for a while. So

Brian 20:22

think- It does

MIC2 20:22

Yeah ...you know, that's the thing. I mean, when you guys, and I met you last night at the table, and you guys talked about how long your restaurants have been open for, and I said, "You know, that's just

Brian 20:30

And it- It, it's forever for you guys- The answer is forever it's so lucky to have that. Exactly.

MIC2 20:33

that, but like longevity in this game is so So-

Francis 20:36

Brian Lockwood, I really appreciate your very attitude. And we are talking to you the heart of Chicago. We'll be back in just a minute. You are listening to The Restaurant Guys, and you can always find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com. So here we are back again, you said that we were easy, and you're easy too. I mean, this conversation is, this conversation is exactly what we said earlier it's gonna be. The Restaurant Guys is, the conversation we would have with other industry professionals or authors, whoever, when we close bar,

Mark 21:01

you

Francis 21:01

know, lock the door. If there, if there

Mark 21:02

wa- if there were no mics.

Francis 21:03

Yeah, if there were no mics. Um, but that brought to mind, sometimes you go into a restaurant, and people say this about our restaurants, it stinks of Mark and Francis in our restaurant. Like, our personality is expressed in everything. It's where we're comfortable. it's our vision and- place is so in keeping with your personality the way that you talk about things.

MIC1 21:24

It's elegant and it's

Francis 21:26

Yeah

Mark 21:27

Right?

Brian 21:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark 21:27

that's the vibe you give off-

Brian 21:29

Yeah

Mark 21:29

and that's the vibe that the restaurant gives

Brian 21:31

Well, yeah. And then, then we got, you I got partners that are great too and have great taste, and collaborative thing amongst all of us, so. Are they

Francis 21:38

elegant and,

Brian 21:38

sure comfortable?

Francis 21:39

Well, one of the things I want to say about this first of all, the bar is phenomenal. And some things that are really interesting, 'cause we have a lot of r- restaurant professionals who listen- Yeah and, who like are The other thing about your bar that I think fantastic, your bar is against the wall and corner, a But back bar or your behind the goes into your line. So your, your line cooks are all in the same little pathway. line cooks and bartenders often are tried to be kept separate, like two animals that will eat each other in a, in a zoo. Um, that-- I was very impressed by that. Yeah. It flows beautifully.

Brian 22:15

Yeah.

Francis 22:15

I mean- You can't put the leopards and the tigers together.

Brian 22:17

That's not gonna work. They're, they're in the same cage here. I mean, um, no, Look, guys, we have one team, Uh-huh. You know, I, I will say my Daniel and Will and not calling things the front of the house and the back of the house- Mm-hmm and having the kitchen and the dining room, even here, the way that it's all just one

Francis 22:36

Yeah the Yeah. Yeah.

Brian 22:38

It

MIC2 22:39

is just one big space, and we do try to really keep that mentality of like, "Hey, how can we do this better?" And, you know, we touched on it

Brian 22:45

we started

MIC2 22:46

this,

Brian 22:46

conversation what were one of the things we could do better take two, and

MIC2 22:50

this was one of those

Brian 22:53

when we first got in here, it was kind

MIC2 22:54

like everyone was so busy,

Brian 22:56

we were all fighting for space. It's tiny and- Mm-hmm. So that gave us time to rethink

MIC2 23:00

during the time and just be like, "Guys, it's one team." Like, we're gonna put our heads together and figure out like, you need this space, like

Brian 23:06

that refrigerator, see that millwork right there?

MIC2 23:08

So that

Brian 23:09

used to be all firewood and part of the hearth,

MIC2 23:11

and the first thing, was give it to

Brian 23:13

bar. It's-

Mark 23:14

Bartenders

Brian 23:14

need it. There you go. Yeah. Like, here's your space. for whatever that they need.

Mark 23:17

You, you know, it's been wonderful, to see the change

MIC1 23:21

that the front of house and back

Mark 23:22

house are on the same team, right? Oh, yeah. It's been wonderful to move towards I can't do this without you, and you can't do what you wanna do without me.

MIC1 23:30

Yeah. And,

Mark 23:31

ship goes better if everybody's trying to make the ship go forward, right? Yeah. Did you

Francis 23:35

ever work in a, kitchen with a pot-throwing chef we did- I mean- when we came up through the ranks? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What did you... 'Cause I thought-

Mark 23:42

Cause we did too.

Francis 23:43

I mean, it, it's- And we thought when we opened a restaurant we're like, "That's not happening here." Yeah. Yeah. That's not happening here. 100%.

Brian 23:48

obviously you get the opportunity to

MIC2 23:49

yourself, how can you do it better? I'm far from perfect, how do we do it better, you know? I do

Brian 23:54

go

MIC2 23:54

home every day and hold a mirror to myself and say, how can I be better? What can I do I do try to walk in other people's shoes.

Brian 24:02

think and I'm still, you myself over things I, that I could've done better yesterday. Well,

Francis 24:07

if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. It doesn't, it doesn't stay the same. Can we- Well, so can we turn the conversation to the inevitable? Because you also did a pretty cool consulting

Brian 24:15

Yeah.

Francis 24:16

You, uh, you worked on The Bear.

Brian 24:18

I sure did.

Francis 24:19

And The Bear was a very important show. Yeah. So what did

Mark 24:22

do on The Bear? And I'm sorry, I didn't realize that's what brought you to Chicago.

Brian 24:24

It was, yeah. So, uh, well,

MIC2 24:26

I was, I was one of the consultants. So it

Brian 24:28

started with Will Guidara

MIC2 24:29

helped co-write some

Brian 24:30

of the act-

MIC2 24:30

you know, episodes for season three, four, and maybe part of five. So I spent, you know, nine years working with Will, and

Brian 24:37

he called me up out of the blue "Hey, how would you want train White on

MIC2 24:42

his cooking So

Brian 24:44

I was,

MIC2 24:45

Of course.

Brian 24:45

So I went out to LA and got to spend a week and just cooking with him and

MIC2 24:49

teaching him how to baste and roast a piece

Brian 24:51

of meat and

MIC2 24:51

cook a piece of

Brian 24:53

And, then it was just, there was a great synergy Bear and

MIC2 24:57

TV in general, I think are very similar to restaurants, where it's

Brian 25:00

a do whatever it takes culture. Yeah, go time. Right? Like- Go time it's just like, okay, here's your marching orders. Figure it out. Right. Find a way, do it. so that resonated how I, I, you know, was able to come

MIC2 25:10

out and help out on and four out here in Chicago,

Brian 25:14

And that's

Francis 25:14

so were you me out here. And so

Brian 25:14

were you

Francis 25:14

mostly teaching technique or mannerisms or like, yeah, that'll never happen

Brian 25:17

in a kitchen. Well, I mean, really, so it started with more mannerisms and techniques, and then on the show I would continue to help with that.

MIC2 25:23

But I also

Brian 25:23

was part of the creative team

MIC2 25:25

who would help develop the

Brian 25:26

dishes- Uh-huh

MIC2 25:27

um, with, you know, three or four other individuals and,

Brian 25:30

you know, Well, that seems like fun the culinary that's one of the aspects of

MIC2 25:33

the cooking part that I really like is the creative

Brian 25:36

Oh, yeah. but I did contribute a ton, and it was very collaborative, much like any great kitchen truly about all the other people

MIC2 25:42

around you and trying to

Brian 25:43

get all of their ideas into one

MIC2 25:46

thing that feels

Brian 25:47

I, um, I mean, transparently, before I helped out on the show, I didn't

MIC2 25:50

watch it. I tried, and I was

Brian 25:52

can't."

Francis 25:52

don't-" Oh my

Mark 25:53

I

Brian 25:53

can't do this.

Mark 25:53

That's a week. You know? So the experience

MIC1 25:55

I have with

Mark 25:56

restaurant people on that show is That show gives me anxiety Yeah. And I, and I can't imagine- it not giving me anxiety.

Brian 26:03

Yeah.

Mark 26:04

And, and so- Well, that's a

Brian 26:04

well-made show.

Mark 26:05

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just

Brian 26:05

goes to show that, there's a lot of parallels- It- and realism in the show Oh, it's real and it's, it's, you know, that's why you can't- It's, it's too real in some, in

Mark 26:11

some bits

Brian 26:11

Exactly.

Francis 26:12

it, it has, and I'll pay it a compliment. Like, and I, like said, I, I couldn't watch... I, I didn't watch a lot of it. I can't watch it in

Mark 26:17

December. Yeah. Okay? I'll tell you that right now. Uh-huh.

MIC1 26:19

I cannot watch

Mark 26:20

it in

Francis 26:21

I've watched the whole first season, and then I've watched snippets of the others, but- Yeah. Yeah it was emotional work to get through that first season. It really was. And I will say, not since Kitchen Confidential, Anthony Bourdain's came out- Right has there been something that can, that everybody in the restaurant business like, "Oh, yeah." Yeah. "That's, that's it, right?" I mean- Yeah.

Brian 26:38

No, good point. It's... You're 100%

MIC2 26:40

right. That was the same moment for

Brian 26:42

Confidential. It

Francis 26:42

was like,

Mark 26:42

Oh." It, it... I will tell you,

MIC1 26:44

one

Mark 26:45

the most, and this is before you were there,

MIC1 26:47

but

Mark 26:48

most important episodes, episode called

MIC1 26:51

Forks-

Mark 26:53

Richie goes and gets the whole fine dining thing- realizes

MIC1 26:58

that

Mark 26:58

it is special, it's not just about the forks being polished- Yeah it's about the message- Yep the way you treat people and- and that we're all working towards every- That there's people in the kitchen with, you know, a, a set of tweezers and somebody picked the shiso so that on every piece of shrimp, the shiso would be- Yeah perfectly placed.

Brian 27:16

Yeah.

Mark 27:16

Uh, I'm talking about

MIC1 27:17

a dish that we had last

Mark 27:18

so-

Brian 27:18

Yeah. No, it's, I mean- But, uh, yeah it comes down to discipline, right? There's a lot

MIC2 27:21

of

Brian 27:21

discipline and,

MIC2 27:22

like, the process

Brian 27:23

learning,

Mark 27:24

mentored a lot of people. You've been

MIC1 27:25

mentored by a lot

Mark 27:26

important

MIC1 27:27

what's

Mark 27:28

different about mentoring an actor

MIC1 27:30

to cook than a

MIC2 27:33

fortunately for me,

Brian 27:34

Jeremy

MIC2 27:34

Allen White was so incredibly talented. Yeah. I mean,

Brian 27:36

He really was. So- Not your normal actor

Francis 27:38

so if the acting doesn't work out, you'll, you'll hire for a hundred

Brian 27:41

percent. Oh, 100%. He's hired. He can come run the kitchen for me right now. Like, uh, yeah, he is, he is incredible. But that's also, like, any tier, you know, any industry- I mean, that's part

MIC2 27:51

of being the

Brian 27:52

of the best is that- Um he studies it. He studied on watched people's

MIC2 27:56

mannerism.

Brian 27:57

He'd watch us do

MIC2 27:58

he picked up And he also just had, like, an innate skill set for it

Francis 28:03

he had the mannerisms of the thing that happens in the kitchen, which was amazing to watch. So listen, what you've done for the TV world is tremendous, uh, and thank you for that.

MIC1 28:12

Before we

Mark 28:13

wrap up, I just some of the little nuance-

MIC1 28:17

Yep that we okay? So I

Mark 28:19

love that the waiters wear. the red jacket, black smart, very And the

Francis 28:26

bus

Mark 28:27

coordinated. And the bus is coordinated. With the, not

Francis 28:28

the jacket, but the apron.

Mark 28:29

Yeah. And, but the, detail that I noticed last night-

MIC1 28:32

Mm-hmm that I,

Mark 28:33

Sorry, copying this.

Francis 28:34

Yes.

Mark 28:35

Okay.

MIC1 28:35

The

Mark 28:36

little red books that all the waiters write the orders in-

Francis 28:40

Yeah

Mark 28:40

that

MIC1 28:41

match their jackets.

Francis 28:43

And everyone has the little book instead of little- That perfect little- crappy sheet of paper that everyone has

Mark 28:49

Yeah.

MIC1 28:49

perfect little

Mark 28:50

detail- it communicated so much without

MIC1 28:54

saying anything,

Brian 28:55

Well, that's the importance of teams, guys. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's Sarah Crayton, one of our incredible, director

MIC2 28:59

of operations who just, you know-

Brian 29:02

Incredible. But between that and Rob and Kevin

MIC2 29:04

you know, they're all, all in it and that is the importance of having other people who see these

Brian 29:08

things.

MIC2 29:09

Oh, yeah.

Brian 29:09

'Cause that is not when you're opening a restaurant- Oh, yeah the chef's like, looking at

MIC2 29:13

that shiso on

Brian 29:14

shrimp-" and that is my focus." So like, having all these other see these other

MIC2 29:19

details, 'cause it's... You're, you're so

Brian 29:21

It's an all-encompassing

Mark 29:22

And it is a really- Yeah,

MIC1 29:24

You have to have good people on the team, and

Mark 29:27

no single or battery of people-

Brian 29:31

Yeah

Mark 29:31

is gonna do it all.

Francis 29:32

Well, and one of the things we talk about, and I know that you believe as well, is when we talk to young waiters, and we talk about great service, and we have all these different things that we want you to do- Mm-hmm um, and we say, "Listen, all of these are arrows in the quiver," right? Right. "And you don't need to shoot every arrow at every time." Right. "We, we, we give you those arrows so you can meet every customer where they are." And, and great service invisible. Like, we're nuts, right? But most walk out, what I need them to say is, I don't need them to say, "Oh, the wine was refilled, and the glasses were beautiful, and the, did you see that they hid the POS system?"

Mark 30:03

Right.

Francis 30:03

I need them to walk out and say, "That was great," And they don't even know why. Right. But the little books are something that most people wouldn't notice. I, I notice how you have very discreetly hidden your POS system And I, and I just wanna point out that having your waiters write in a little book is exactly the opposite, and maybe a little less efficient, than having a handheld where they're typing the order directly the kitchen- Yeah which would save steps. I don't wanna talk to somebody who's typing it into computer. Yeah.

Mark 30:29

I also

Francis 30:29

w- They're writing into a book

Mark 30:30

another

MIC1 30:31

tiny little detail. Yeah.

Mark 30:32

The screens are flattened.

Francis 30:35

Yeah.

Mark 30:35

It's not completely flat, so the waiter can still use them. Yeah. But the light of the screen doesn't enter the

MIC1 30:40

dining room. Yeah. The, the

Mark 30:41

never sees the

Francis 30:42

light of the screen. Neither am I looking at the ass end of a monitor while I'm sitting in table, which-

Brian 30:46

Great team, guys.

Mark 30:47

they're just beautiful little details Buck and I enjoy each other and, and Francis, I noticed tied in the broken arrow and the arrows and the quiver thing. Yeah. 'Cause- We

Francis 30:55

got a lot, got a lot- a lot, a lot of synergy going on here. Yeah. we only met last night, but I feel like I've made a new friend, mad respect for what you've done here. It's tremendous. Well, thank you. Yeah. Excellent.

Mark 31:07

very much, friend.

Francis (2) 31:08

Yeah. Well, I hope you guys have enjoyed this. We learned a lot from him, and, uh, come to Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi, where we will show you the cool notebooks we got There's a shameless plug for the restaurants, huh?

Francis 31:18

You gotta come to Gingy when you come to Chicago. We'll put up all the information on the notes for the show.

Francis (2) 31:23

Anyway, hope you enjoyed the hour with us. I'm Francis

Mark OUTRO 31:25

And I'm Mark Pascal

Francis OUTRO 31:26

are the Restaurant Guys. You can always find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com.