Speaker 2 0:11

Hello everybody, and welcome. You are listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Schott. Together we own Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.

Speaker 3 0:24

Hello there, Mark.

Speaker 2 0:25

Hey, Francis.

Speaker 3 0:25

I'm having a great day today.

Speaker 2 0:27

It's gonna be a great day.

Speaker 3 0:29

It's g- That was a slogan once. Um, but today, actually later in the show, we have Paul McDonald, who runs The Lover's Bar in Philadelphia. And even though, Mark, you and I are not lovers at last checking, uh, we went to The Lover's Bar and we had a great time.

Speaker 2 0:41

Yeah, it's the bar inside of Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Great place.

Speaker 3 0:43

Yeah. We're, but we didn't go... We went on a Thursday. how does that work? How does that work? But, uh, we had a great time, and the bar is really interesting, and he uses the Fibonacci sequence to make cocktails way above our pay grade. We'll find out what that means in a little bit. Uh, but a little bit before we start.

MIC2 0:58

So I had something I wanna talk about today that I don't know if you're gonna agree with me.

Francis 1:02

Okay.

MIC2 1:02

Okay? Uh, 'cause I'm noticing it more and more in the world that we're living in currently.

Francis 1:09

Okay.

MIC2 1:10

Hospitality, It's a word that's getting bludgeoned. a little And, when this whole hospitality movement started, and really Danny Meyer started it, w- you know, we

Francis 1:20

got- Well, Danny Meyer's made the clear distinction between service and hospitality, and hospitality is that welcoming feeling, of course, that you get, and service is providing you with what you need or want.

MIC2 1:30

Here's my issue. There are a whole bunch of pundits out there that are trying to monetize hospitality. And what's coming from that is people aren't realizing hospitality can't be taught. we can teach techniques of hospitality. We can teach you, "Okay, this is hospitable. This is not hospitable. This is how you show it. This is not how you show it." But hospitality has to come from inside of you, right? You have to, have the desire to be hospitable. You have to care about who's in front of you. And if you don't care about who's in front of you, all of these techniques are just marketing.

Francis 2:10

I hear what you're saying is that it rings kind of false sometimes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like the rehearsed script that sounds like, "Well, Mr. Johnson, it's very nice to see you. We're very pleased you..." It's like, Danny Meyer, look, he didn't invent that concept, but I think he stated something that people who understand hospitality- Yes saw it put in words and said- Yes "Okay, I can teach service, and I can teach you techniques that can help you to show your hospitality and-" Yes let you effectively show people things that are... But you've got the hospitality itself is an emotionally present thing. I, I get it

MIC2 2:42

I didn't think you were gonna agree with me. here, So you've surprised me

Francis 2:45

I agree, and I'll, I will tell you that I, I think there's a distinction. I think there are a lot of people out there who are trying to teach people, and young people are increasingly awkward in some ways- Mm and Because they haven't had the same level of as, I guess, as many in-person interactions, by the time they're 20 years old as people did 20 years ago. So they don't know how to express their hospitality, and I think it works when it's giving rise to what's in their heart and giving them the, the m- the means by which to express their hospitality. But what I'm taking from what you say is it's also giving other people a means to fake

MIC2 3:23

Y- Yeah, if you don't actually have that

Francis 3:26

Yeah

MIC2 3:26

or sympathy at the very least- Yeah, right? And that maybe it's not empathy. If you don't at least have a feeling for, "Hey, I wanna make this person happy"- Yeah There's no hospitality there. Yeah. It's marketing. Yeah. And this is how it feels sometimes. Yeah. Feels like you're trying to trick me- into buying something that I don't wanna buy, and that's not hospitality.

Francis 3:46

you really raise an interesting point because it's not just tricking you into buying something that you wanna buy. And you... This is a really interesting fine point because- I'm teaching you to say the things to make someone think that you

MIC2 4:00

Yeah. I'm at a nightclub and feeding a girl a line.

Francis 4:02

But, but you know what? It is also teaching people who may not have the skills really how to express that they care, it's a fraud when it happens and you really don't care. But let's face it, I'm not coming over to your house and gonna do your laundry for you. I'm not gonna come visit you in the hospital.

MIC2 4:18

I don't know. some of the things I'm hear people saying is like, "Well, you're gonna have to go over to their house and do their laundry for them. You know, otherwise you're inhospitable."

Francis 4:25

Uh, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration- but I, I get your point. Yeah, no, the hospitality gurus, it's interesting 'cause I... And I do go to restaurants, and I feel it, that it is formulaic. And, and I think that what we have to do in our business is, is give people the guidelines. And we're not a corporation, so we can be very general, and we don't have many scripts. we kind of give people the room to show their own hospitality. Yes. And we, you can't train inhospitality.

MIC2 4:53

I tell our employees all the time, "If you don't like a dish, don't tell somebody you like the dish just because you're- Right you're trying to- sell that dish or, convince them that, you're in their corner."

Francis 5:04

A- all right. Let me, let me, let me d- pu- do a little pushback here. Go ahead. I'm gonna point back to one of the greatest waiters we've ever known. We worked with him as a bartender- Yes when we were bartenders at The Frog and The Peach, and his nickname was Galena. Yep. And he was a very flamboyantly gay man who instantly made you feel like you were in his orbit. Mm-hmm. And he knew nothing, okay? He knew precisely

MIC2 5:26

Yes, He knew nothing.

Francis 5:27

And, and was hostile to knowing anything, right? he sort of knew a little bit about the food, like he could accurately describe what was on the plate. But he was all about you, and he was hospitable, but he would lie to you, or he would, say stuff that made no sense, you know, 'cause he wouldn't know about wine. You're like, "What's the chardonnay like?" He's like, "The chardonnay is like making love in the moonlight, in the barn in the

MIC2 5:47

He definitely said things like that.

Francis 5:48

and the fact of the matter is I have no idea And he always said it about the most expensive or strategically- Mm-hmm second most expensive thing on the list in order to sell you that thing. So in a sense, he was full of shit, but he was also 100%

MIC2 6:03

Hold on. He was full of shit. Yeah ...But he truly cared that you have- a great experience. yeah. And That's what I'm

Francis 6:12

about.

MIC2 6:12

about. What I'm talking about is I don't want you to have a great experience so I can make more money,

Francis 6:17

I'm definitely

MIC2 6:18

I'm definitely okay with that. I'm, I'm happy, I'm- happy that you have a great experience- and I make more money. But he never lost the sense of I want you to have a great experience 'cause I care that you have a great experience. he never gave that up.

Francis 6:30

And he was always the highest grossing waiter on the floor though as well. You know what I mean? Yes. I think what it is, it comes down to sincerity, and I think that some of this stuff is getting formulaic, and it- Mm brings me to a point that I wanna touch on. Okay. Maybe this will clarify things. Um, and it's where people are using scripts like welcome in. Welcome in? Where did that come from? That didn't exist two years ago. Welcome in? What does that even mean? I'm not get- I'm getting in a pool? Anyway, so people are now using AI- Mm-hmm to deliver you that experience before you get there and after. I'm gonna tell you about an experience that I had at a very high-end steakhouse where- Okay I went with a friend. I went with you and another friend. We had a great experience, and

MIC2 7:07

Now I know what place you're talking

Francis 7:08

about. Uh, but they don't.

MIC2 7:09

They don't even know

Francis 7:09

whenever we say negative things, we don't identify the place. the maître d' came over and said hello, and the GM said hello on the way out. We had a couple

MIC2 7:16

They were very gracious- and frankly hospitable.

Francis 7:19

were. They were great. when I left, and we, we had traded business cards with the guy, I got an email That was purportedly from the manager of the restaurant. "Hey, we're so, glad you came in. You had such a great time. If you wanna come to our restaurant or any of our sister restaurants, please email us directly and I will take care to make sure that you have an... It'll give us the opportunity to give you an extra special experience." Now, we have sent those emails to people- Sure sometimes, or our, our staff is empowered to send those emails sometimes. And so I decided... I had such a great experience, I decided to go back with our other friend who we were

MIC2 7:50

with- Mm-hmm

Francis 7:51

maybe a month and a half later. And so I made the reservation online to make it easy, and I emailed the person who had invited me to email them. I got an email back from the person that I emailed. It said, "Oh, that's so great. We're happy to see you coming back again. We know that you had this and that the last time, and, you know, we'll make it extra special. Hope you show up early." I'm like, so now I'm thinking I'm corresponding with a human- Mm-hmm who has taken special notice of

MIC2 8:15

me. Absolutely. Who- who you began a relationship with. Yeah. And- Truly did

Francis 8:19

but I notice at this point that the return email address says, you know, Bob Smith, manager. Mm-hmm. But if you go beyond it, it's like, customer service at blank blank restaurant group.

MIC1-2 8:28

So at that point I realized it's an AI, and I start messing with it, right? I'm like, you know, so I respond back like, "I'm Amo dog face in the banana patch." And then and then the AI sends me a, a, an email back saying, "Thank you for your banana patch. Uh, we look forward to seeing you. We don't have bananas." You know, so I'm like, I, so it was kinda messed up. So I realize it's an AI, but it's sending... And as I get closer to the, to the reservation, it sends me another like, personalized email. "Oh, we're so looking forward to seeing you." And I was like,

MIC2-2 8:55

we're so glad you're coming back." Yeah. "It'll be good to see you

MIC1-2 8:57

Exactly, that sort of thing, right? So I get there with my 87-year-old friend Alan, who I really like. He likes to... You know, we get treated that way all the time in restaurants. Yes. But you know, Alan likes to feel special. So we get there, and nothing. I mean, the go... Very nice. of recognition. Not a glint of recognition, and you know, they were good. Actually, there was one waiter there who wasn't very good. She had a very like other side of the Iron Curtain kind of, uh, you know, harsh, uh, prison guard, look about her, and, or, you know, her demeanor wasn't very nice. You know, like Alan said, So, you know, I, I'd like to have some coffee, but not if it's been sitting there a long time." 'Cause you know, he's still thinking we do coffee en bardos. And she says, "All the coffee was made this morning." I'm like- "Dude, it's, it's an 87-year-old man. Be nice," right?

MIC2-2 9:43

He doesn't know that we use hot pots now- Yeah,

MIC1-2 9:45

yeah, yeah. It

MIC2-2 9:45

the world is

MIC1-2 9:46

just be nice. He's an old guy. Uh, you know, anyway. So the hospitality was good except for the one woman, but there was nothing special done. Mm. There was no recognition of, of what we'd had before. We'd ordered some special things, and one of the waiters was very nice, if somewhat absent. And we walked out of there and I thought- if you hadn't sent me those emails

MIC2-2 10:07

set up an

MIC1-2 10:08

I wouldn't have expected anything special or personalized, and I would've thought, "Okay, it's nice. It wasn't quite as good as last time." they didn't do themselves any favors, 'cause all of it was

MIC2-2 10:18

Because we went there the first time with no expectation, right? Right. And somebody said hello, and it was lovely, and, and then they recognized that we were in the business, and they were very nice to us, And if that had happened again, you'd have been fine with it. Well, and also- But they set up this expectation of, "We're so looking forward to having you back. We're gonna make sure it's really special."

MIC1-2 10:37

Well, and also, even if they hadn't done the recognize that we're in the business, whatever, which they didn't this time, so it wasn't quite as special. Mm-hmm. But that's totally fine. But they set up this expectation pretending to be a human being saying, "We're paying attention," and sorry, you plugged me into a computer program, and as a result of setting up that false expectation, again, they did themselves no favors. I think restaurateurs need to be very careful about this. Now, to your point earlier, if somebody had just read the notes and said, "We contacted this guy. They were in last time. This is what they had. They're in the business," and they came over and said, "Oh, Mr. Schott, it's nice to see you again," even if the whole computer thing had been bullshit, that would've been better. But when you set me up that way and then left me with nothing-

MIC2-2 11:18

why?

MIC1-2 11:18

trap.

MIC2-2 11:18

What? Pretend hospitality. Yeah. Uh, it's- Okay? It's pretend hospitality, which is exactly what I see as the problem. It's marketing. It's not hospitality. We gotta be really

MIC1-2 11:28

there. It's AI-assisted pretend hospitality. Not hospitality, correct. How scary is that?

Speaker 11:32

We'll be back in just a minute with Paul McDonald from The Lovers Hbar in Philadelphia. Great interesting topic, a new take on cocktails. Stick with us. Don't go away. You can find out more about the Restaurant Guys at restaurantguyspodcast.com. You could even become a member

MIC1 13:12

Hey there, everybody. Welcome back. Our guest today is Paul McDonald from The Lovers Bar at Philadelphia's Friday Saturday Sunday. Friday Saturday Sunday won the James Beard Award for outstanding restaurants in 2023, and now The Lovers Bar is a finalist for outstanding bar. Paul spent years behind some of Philly's best bars, and at Friday Saturday Sunday, he's introduced some unique methodology that we needed to have him on to talk about. He constructs cocktails using the Fibonacci sequence from high school, if you remember, one, one, two, three, five. And he employs a carousel of spirits for you and the universe to construct your own cocktails to test his method. If you like, we visited. We had a great time. We think it's really interesting. He's breaking new ground in the cocktail world, and we are pleased to have Paul McDonald on the show today.

MIC2 13:58

Paul, welcome to the show

USB 13:59

Thank you for having me. Nice to be here

MIC1 14:01

We wanna talk about things in general, the cocktail world in general. We had a great time at your place, but we gotta start with the Fibonacci method of cocktails. Can you talk to us about

USB 14:09

Yeah. Yeah. Um, first of all, to get one big and constant misconception out of the way, the Fibonacci ratio is not the basis for all of our cocktails or even for our program as a whole. It's a small corner of the program that we do. Lots of cocktails that we make, lots of cocktails that we're known for, and the, the majority of cocktails that we make in a given night have nothing whatsoever to do with the Fibonacci however, it is definitely, it's an aspect of our program that has, uh, that has garnered a significant amount of attention over the years, which is great. because it has gotten so much traction and gotten talked about so much, I find myself having this conversation very often about what precisely it is and is not. so I appreciate this opportunity to talk about it to a larger, larger audience 'cause I I've given this spiel too many times in my life.

MIC2 15:02

just glad you didn't take it to eight parts and 13 parts and, you know, keep going.

USB 15:06

we have the whole future spread out ahead of us. Who knows what might happen? But at the moment, we're gonna stick with five

MIC1 15:11

okay, so here's the elevator pitch for it, and what you need to do from now on is we'll just clip this, like, 15 seconds of Restaurant Guys podcast, and any time anyone asks you, you can just play this and you won't have to ever explain it again. So tell us

USB 15:24

that's perfect. I love that.

MIC1 15:25

how you do this

USB 15:26

All right. So, the original concept, uh, came 12 years ago probably. Um, and originally all I was trying to do was make a drink out of five contrasting fortified wines. I had five very disparately flavored fortified wines picked out, and I wanted a specific flavor profile in which each individual ingredient would kind of present itself in succession across the palate. I wanted, you know, five distinct fortified wines to give you a nice easy drinking low alcohol cocktail with a flavor profile that evolves and meanders across the palate. So I went through a normal R&D process. Um, the, the ingredients were, uh, Cocchi, Torino vermouth, Punt e Mes, Cardamaro, uh, Serci Almadeira and Quinquina, Tempus Fugit Quinquina L'Erre d'Or. and so I went through kind of a normal R&D process, um, messing around with portions, bringing different things to the forefront. and

MIC2 16:27

ingredients have some things in common, they're all very different from each

USB 16:30

Very different profiles, different types of bitterness that kind of in- hit the palate at different points. You have quinine, you have gentian, you have a little wormwood, you have all of these different things. so I, uh, essentially through the normal process of R&D, eventually came to a cocktail, to a formulation that gave me the profile that I was looking for, gave me the, the, the kind of the taste profile that I had in mind. And just by coincidence, it happened to align with the Fibonacci ratios. A quarter ounce, quarter ounce, half ounce, three quarter ounce, one and a quarter ounce, which in, you know, removing the specific measurements, the ratio is essentially one, one, two, three, five. so you know, that idea just kind of seemed funny to me. The, uh, it, it also very conveniently fits into a three ounce base pour prior to dilution, which is broadly speaking correct for citrus free stirred cocktails. Things like martinis, negronis and Manhattans are always a three ounce base pour prior to dilution. So this, this Fibonacci ratio, quarter, quarter, half, three quarter, one and a quarter, very neatly fits into that slot, fits into that design. and so it just kind of turned into a, a side project. It was just, just a fun thing to do on the side. Like, o- okay, well if this, Fibonacci idea is interesting, you have five contrasting this one specific ratio, what else can I fit in here? And for years it turned into just kind of an interesting way to force myself to think differently about flavors, think differently about cocktail construction.

MIC2 18:05

You know, and I-- and it's great, and I think that's a, that's a cool part of what you're doing, but it's really only a part of what you're doing. you guys are doing a lot of really interesting cocktails. We had, uh, I'm, I'm gonna say that our table had eight different cocktails while we were there, right? Th- there's eight on the list. Is that correct?

USB 18:20

actually, since you were there, we've, uh, we've doubled it. We're now at we, we... Yeah, we, took a whole bunch of our... We, we've been around for 10 years now, so a, a lot of our cocktails that have been kind of tried and perennial favorites on the menu, uh, we decided to just put them on our own, on, on a separate menu of in-house classics, and then we have our, our seasonally rotating menu also

MIC2 18:41

Well, that's definitely something that, that you do, right? once your restaurant's gotten certain favorites, right? Your regulars have certain favorites. you have to create that classics section so that, Otherwise, people are coming in with animus like, "Hey, you know, I drank that cocktail here for three months, and now I can't have it anymore."

USB 18:59

you gotta keep those drinks available for people, but you've also gotta bring in, bring in new stuff,

MIC2 19:03

Gotta keep it fresh. Listen, anybody who's really good at this loves to create, and if you squash our creativity,

USB 19:11

What else is left?

MIC2 19:12

you're never gonna be as good as you were

USB 19:14

absolutely

MIC2 19:15

So what kind of new cocktails did you bring onto the list?

USB 19:18

actually just, introduced a a couple of new cocktails from, uh, from our more junior bartending team, which is very exciting. We try to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to, to put, at least a few drinks on the menu at any given time. one particular favorite of mine is a drink from our newest bartender, which is called, The Silent Runner. Uh, it's a reference to Twin Peaks. very appropriate for the cozy fall weather. So the drink is one of my favorite types of drink, one of my favorite types of cocktail, which is a boozy tasting, low alcohol aperitif. So it's, uh, it doesn't have any citrus. It doesn't have any fruit. y- you know, it drinks like a Manhattan, but it's light and low alcohol. Um, so it uses a, uses a gentiana along with some dry Madeira, uh, and then just a little bit of crème de cacao. it's a beautiful, beautiful fall aperitif. Very, very

MIC1 20:14

Pretty cool. Hey, so I wanna talk about, just to g- I know we got off the topic, but I wanna go back to that whole Fibonacci thing. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause you, you t- you took it a step further with the Fibonacci method, which is pretty interesting. There, there is a history of, like, you know, there's a doubling drink, one, two, four, eight. But, what you do with the Fibonacci thing, you're not purporting that it works with everything, but you put together a bar carousel, which is another thing that is pretty unique to you that you're known for, where you basically take a carousel of 21 bottles, not the actual bottles, but the bottle names. You basically can do a spinner and pick any of these 21 bottles in any order using your method of the 21 bottles you've chose, and y- you can let, you know, God pick your cocktail for you. Is that, is that how that's supposed to work?

USB 20:57

Well, it's not in any order. the order always has to stay the same. However, it can align with that Fibonacci ratio in any way. so the, the order of the bottles always stays the same, but it can align in any way with that one, one, five, ratio. so essentially as the, as the wheel turns, any given ingredient can appear in any of those five positions. And as its context shifts, its ratio shifts, and thereby its functionality It's interesting because, uh, when I developed this thing, my idea was always that people would kind of search through it and find a set of five that suited them and that, that they liked. And, uh, everybody that I introduce it to, I, I hear this a million times a night, people, people say like, "Oh, I cheated by looking through. I..." And, and people will spin something randomly and say, "Oh, I don't like this. Is it okay if I cheat?" And I... There's no rule that you can't do that. it's

MIC1 21:52

You're, if you're, are you pa- are

USB 21:53

spontaneously develop. Like, I, I, I don't know where this came from.

MIC1 21:56

If

MIC2 21:57

Yeah, our rule is it's, if it's your drink, you're not cheating.

MIC1 22:00

If you're paying for the drink, you can have, you can have it any, any way you like. Well, so here's the thing about this, though. First of all, from a, from a geeky bartender perspective, it's very interesting. But from a guest perspective, it's fun. You know, I, you don't need to even understand it totally as this is a new thing where people will come in and participate in the bar experience, and I think that more and more, that's what we need in bars and restaurants as a way to engage, and it's, it's something that can't be reproduced. It's not something you're reading on the phone. It's right there, and you're a part of it. So congratulations

MIC2 22:30

I'm guessing that there's a drink when it comes out that you're like, "Ooh, I, I love that one. That's really the one that I,

USB 22:37

Yeah, there are a couple of them. There are a couple of

MIC2 22:39

really good. And I'm also guessing that there's one or two that come out and you're like, "Hmm, maybe we should substitute something in this particular drink and, and change it

USB 22:48

Honest- honestly, no. Hon- honestly, no.

MIC2 22:51

All right. I just don't believe

USB 22:52

that's why

MIC1 22:55

I believe you, Paul

USB 22:56

to get rid of all of those. So, you know, there are some very, very arcane, very obscure have had to work very hard to track down and to find. Um, and the reason for that is because we, you know, we wanted to, we wanted to eliminate all of those kind of like, all those rough edges. Now, there certainly there are, there are drinks that, you know, they're great for before your meal, and on dessert, I would be like, "Yeah, you probably don't want

MIC2 23:21

Uh-huh

MIC1 23:21

S- so,

USB 23:22

vice versa.

MIC1 23:23

so can you give us a f- can you give us a favor?

USB 23:26

yeah. We, uh, one, one of, one of my favorite ingredients on the wheel is Becherovka.

MIC1 23:30

Okay

USB 23:31

know, we use Becherovka a lot in our cocktail program. I think maybe my favorite drink on the entire me- on, on, on the entire carousel uh, five parts of Becherovka to three parts of Oloroso Sherry, two parts of rhubarb liqueur, and then one part each of Barolo Chinato and Bols Genever.

MIC1 23:49

Yeah, you are picking some obscure

USB 23:51

like apple

MIC1 23:52

You are picking some ob- I, I think at the Old Queens Tavern they're not gonna have that, the

USB 23:55

That's, that, that's one of the less arcane it, it, it can be overwhelming. It

MIC1 24:01

Well, I-- we're gonna post that recipe up so everyone can have a look at it. let's talk more about the, the, the bar and the restaurant that you're in. Mark and I are really falling in love with Philadelphia. I, I think the dining scene in Philadelphia over the last 20 years has-- wins most improved in the country. It went from a good little city to, you know, what's going on there is pretty amazing. Um, tell us about Friday, Saturday, Sunday

USB 24:22

Friday Saturday Sunday has technically been operating on that and Rittenhouse Square ever since 1973. it was a very different type of restaurant back then. just speaking purely cosmetically, just to give you a sense of how much it's changed, the bar used to be upstairs and the dining room was on the ground floor. So the first time I ever set foot in that building was in 2016, and it was stripped down to the rafters. it changed hands in 2015, and, uh, it ended up being a full gut job, um, and a complete redo. You know, it had just, The restaurant had seen better days at that point, you know, from

MIC2 25:01

So this particular

USB 25:02

fr- from the '70s.

MIC2 25:02

this particular iteration is about 10 years old

USB 25:05

Uh, yeah, we'll, we'll celebrate our 10th anniversary so yeah, just about 10 so, on the one hand, a neighborhood institution that has been around for decades, but on the other hand, it's... Well, like, at this point I guess I can't say we're relatively new anymore. We're almost 10 years old. the, the continuing legacy it's interesting kind of having those dual personalities this, this name that people remember from 50 years ago and this kind of reborn, reborn concept. So the way that we operate now, we have bar, the Lovers bar on the ground walk in. Um, and we have about a 30-seat dining room upstairs. We do do two turns a night. In the dining room, we are tasting menu only. Um, and at the bar we have, uh, we have a la carte uh, and you can also at the bar if Um, so it creates a really... It, it, it's, it's a really cool, really interesting dynamic because we have a ton of neighborhood regulars, including some that have been coming to the bar at Friday, Saturday, Sunday for 30 years, and we have an industry crowd. We have, a normal mix of restaurant stuff, but there is a specific type of customer that we get, um, especially a lot of neighborhood specifically want to come to the bar to have the they love having this kind of formal, very, very high-end, high-concept dining experience in this kind of loud, raucous bar setting where people are shouting over each other. You know, I'm ta- I'm taking orders over their shoulder. you know, we have this kind of, we have this kind of like more formal, slightly more buttoned up style of service upstairs, and we have this bar, this, you know, this bar where people crowd in and hang out and talk to each other,

MIC1 27:00

in a way that's what I like about Philadelphia bars. Like, we have been going to some of the really acclaimed, you know, award-winning bars, cocktail bars, and restaurants. somehow in Philly, it, it all still seems to belong to Philly. It... You feel like there are people from the neighborhood there, whereas in New York City, I, I, I don't think we really have that. You have that in Brooklyn, but you don't have it in Manhattan, and you only have it in some neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and it's so transient and it's so fashionista that I, I really think what you just described, I agree with for Friday and Saturday and Sunday, and it's kinda what I like about Philly overall

MIC2 27:38

Well, and the other part of that- Mm-hmm the thing you just mentioned, Francis and I, you know, spent a lot of time bartending in really nice restaurants, and there's just something about the vibe of getting really great food or a tasting menu at, at a really great restaurant, but still being at a, at a bar and, having the bar vibe and having the, that kinda good feeling and, you know, rapport with your bartender while still having a really spectacular meal. There's something, there's something about that, I've been enjoying for 40 years now. I mean, just, just absolutely love it.

MIC1 28:11

I'm, I'm actually, I'm actually Mark's favorite bartender. It's crazy. But he never has to pay when he comes to my bar, so maybe that's why. I don't know.

USB 28:18

and to, to Francis' point, I, I've said for a long time, I in Philadelphia all the best restaurants have great bars where you can order the full menu. That's, I th- I think that's, that's one of Philadelphia's really, really great strengths in dining. we do dinner at the bar exceptionally

MIC2 28:35

Yep, that's, uh... Listen, we, we have anywhere from 10 to 30 people a night do that here, and we love it. I love that people are, are able to have that same exper- well, it's not the same experience, to have that, unique experience at the bar every time they come in to, dinner and have a meal at at the bar. also worth noting that we were at Friday Saturday Sunday on Wednesday. allowed?

USB 28:59

We are open Wednesday through Sunday.

MIC2 29:01

Yeah,

USB 29:01

I think back in the 70s they were only open three days a week, but now, now you have to

MIC2 29:06

Yeah. thinking about how difficult it would be to staff a place only being open three days. Your staff would have to work someplace else, and if they work someplace else, you would expect that, that other place would want them to work on Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

USB 29:21

Yeah. Yeah.

MIC2 29:22

I think the five-day week thing is necessary

USB 29:24

I've spent a lot of time thinking about that over the years. I don't know how you It ma- it makes no sense to me to be open only three days a week. But that's, you know, it was a different time. I wasn't around for that.

MIC1 29:34

Well, it was a different time. Listen, uh, Paul, it's been great talking to you. What you do there is really interesting, and, uh, we love your place

USB 29:41

Thank you so much. I appreciate

MIC2 29:42

Thanks, man

MIC1 29:43

You can find out more about Paul McDonald at restaurantguyspodcast.com. We'll be back in just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

29:49

Fibonacci sequence, just a little above my pay grade. English major bartender. How about... You were the s- you were the math major bartender. How about you? I love Fibonacci. Uh-huh. Very cool stuff. I don't know that I love it in my drinks. Okay, you know what's funny? You probably encountered the Fibonacci, equation in math. I probably encountered it in art history. But either way, it was, it was above my pay grade then. I, so I wanna talk for just a moment about this thing we did last weekend, which was Julie's idea. Um, second year we did it, and it was more popular this year than it was the prior year. We did the spooky bar. Yeah, it- it- The Halloween bar I gotta tell you, it's fun. One of the things I really like, though, is I just give Julie a project like that- and she just takes care of it, and I don't have to think about it, and that's great. I gotta come up with a good costume every year. There were spooky drinks. Yeah, we, uh, good costumes. You, we can have a spoiler, right? Sure, sure. You were Sasquatch. I was the sommelier vampire, right? That was very... I guess you put a lot more effort than I did. But you were in your costume for, like, nine minutes twice, right? My costume is a million degrees, and when it's, nice weather out, it's hard to be in the Sasquatch. Uh, we, but I can actually do service. I had this t- taste event around my neck to add to the Dracula jewelry. It was all, it was all a lot of fun. I will tell you, the one night, though, we had... I don't know if you knew this, 'cause you were upstairs that night. We had a really busy night. The whole restaurant was busy, and so people were having regular dinner in the spooky bar, which is- Mm-hmm not how we had conceived it. That's right. Spooky bar was supposed to be its own independent- Like, s- part of the restaurant a little spooky appetizers, spooky... But we didn't have any more room, and people were like, "We'll sit there for dinner." Um, and we had the smoke machine with the little strobe light and the purple smoke that was staying out. Mm-hmm. And and some of the folks who were having dinner were like, "Okay, knock it off with the fucking smoke machine." And I had to say, we knocked it off with the smoke machine- Yeah till they were gone. And you know what happened when they walked out the door? More smoke. I had the smoke machine. It was super fun. Anyway, well, it was a fun weekend. It was a great time talking about Fibonacci once again, and I d- So come to spooky bar next year. Yeah, it'll be great. It'll be great. All right. Well, we're gonna go. Thank you so much for joining us. You can always find out more about the Restaurant Guys. Join us. Become a regular. We'd love to see you. Find out more at restaurantguyspodcast.com. I'm Francis Shot. I'm Mark Pascal. We are the Restaurant Guys. See you next time.