1:41

Hello everybody, and welcome back. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys, Mark and Francis of Stage Left and Capon Lombardi Restaurants in downtown New Brunswick, New Jersey

Francis 1:49

today our guest is Anya von Bremzen. She's a contributing editor at Travel Leisure magazine. She's author of Please to the Table: The Russian Cookbook, which won a James Beard Award, and a terrific Pacific cookbook. She's also the author of Fiesta and the Spanish Table and the New Spanish Table. She contributes regularly to Food Wine, um, and she joins us today to talk about several things, uh, specifically the food of Valencia and her new book, The New Spanish Table.

Speaker 3 2:14

Anya, welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 2:15

Thanks so much.

Francis 2:16

Hey, you know, we are fascinated with the food of Spain. I spent a little bit of time as a, as a young man living in Spain, and I really enjoyed the traditional foods then. But the world, you know, I don't know if all of our listeners know, regular listeners to the show definitely know that sort of the center of the world cul- the culinary world is shifting, uh, and the center of gravity is really shifting from France to Spain. I mean, do you find that to be the case?

Speaker 5 2:42

Yes, absolutely. Even, even the French are admitting it. You know, they have so many food conferences, in Spain where chefs are exchanging ideas and, you know, the French are coming, the Italian are coming, and, uh, I spent a lot of time talking to French chefs, and they are admitting that for creative ideas, they are going to Spain to check out what's happening. It's- We- The scene has really exploded in the last five years or so.

Francis 3:06

You know, our, our, our chef we just sent to, uh, there's a culinary conference called Madrid Fusion or Madrid Fusión, you know, that, that, that just happened, happens in January. Of course, I was

Speaker 5 3:14

there, yes.

Francis 3:15

Oh, were you?

Speaker 5 3:15

Yes, absolutely.

Francis 3:16

He thought it was ama-- Now, we had a couple of American chefs there, um, uh, but a lot of French chefs from around. What did you think of Madrid Fusión and, and how representative is it of, of what's going on in the Spa- at the Spanish table?

Speaker 5 3:28

Um, it's my fifth year. I've been going there since the beginning, and, um, it's a great conference, where chefs from all over the world are exchanging ideas. You know, what the Spanish have done, besides create this kind of new high-tech futuristic cuisine, they have managed to gather forces from all over the world, uh, and back their experiments. they have another conference in the city of San Sebastián, which was pioneering. conference, and now Madrid Fusión, Fusión, and other ones. And, the Europeans are copying it. You know, there's now a conference in Italy. There's a brand-new conference in France. Um, actually, even in New York there's a conference. It's a real forum for chefs from all over the world to exchange ideas, so they're no longer working in a vacuum. It used to be that an Italian chef had no idea what was happening in Spain, and a Spanish chef had no idea what was happening in Hong Kong, and now suddenly, um, the world is united.

Francis 4:29

in all of these conferences, what I think is very interesting, is that, yes, Italian chefs and French chefs are talking about what's going on in Italy versus what's going on in Spain, and traditional Italian food versus traditional Spanish food, but what the, the Spanish have really pioneered is avant-garde cuisine, which we've talked about a lot and, and it- it's a cuisine that is, to me, more rooted in technique and maybe less rooted in a specific place. What's going on in Spain with regard to traditional foods versus this avant-garde sort of cutting-edge, crazy food.

Speaker 5 5:05

Well, it's actually a very interesting question, uh, and I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the avant-garde, as you say, crazy food in Spain, because in fact it's not so crazy at all. Mm-hmm. And the good thing about it, it is very rooted in tradition.

Speaker 2 5:19

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 5:19

Because Spain, so far, has not really globalized its flavors. You're not gonna find a lot of, you know, star anise and, you know, fusion stuff. Uh, they are really working off a very traditional idiom. So for instance, there's this amazing chef in the southern region of Andalusia, um, who's working with liquid nitrogen, but he's applying liquid nitrogen to gazpacho, which is a traditional chilled soup. Mm-hmm. So what you get is this deconstructed gazpacho that in form is very different from what you are used to, but once you put it in your mouth, it kind of explodes with a traditional force.

Speaker 3 5:55

so Anya, what you're, saying here is while, from an outsider looking in that, that it may appear that these two, cuisines, traditional versus avant-garde, are diverging, in essence they're kind of converging in, in some ways, are they? And

Speaker 5 6:09

they're converging now more than ever because, you know, the Spanish are a little bit wary by now of food that's too far out, and even the, you know, even the, as you say, crazy chefs are kind of going back to tradition. You know, to them, the ingredient is the last and ultimate truth, you know? And all these methods that they're devising are really designed to, uh, bring out the natural quality of the ingredient. And what's happening in Spain also, because it's kind of a small community of chefs, the traditional chefs are going to avant-garde restaurants and picking up some ideas. So, you know, someone cooking at a tapas bar will say, "Well, you know, the science says that, you know, we shouldn't really cook fish beyond 65 degrees centigrade because it ruins the proteins." So at a traditional tapas bar, you will just get a perfectly cooked piece of fish, you know, in which they apply modern science to something very traditional. At the same time, chefs like Ferran Adrià, Juan Mari Arzak, all these three-Michelin-star luminaries that are pushing the boundaries, they love traditional food. Uh, the brother of Ferran Adrià, uh, Albert Adrià, who is responsible for all the amazing desserts at El Bulli restaurant, he just opened a tapas bar in Barcelona which is as traditional as they come, and Ferran Adrià eats there three times a week.

Speaker 3 7:29

You know, Anya, one of the things we were talking about in, in Spain is how one of the things that's happening right now is, is the traditionalists and the, uh, avant-garde cuisine or, or molecular gastronomy movement are kind of coming together and trying to, trying to see pieces of what each has to offer. Here in the United States, I think one of the problems that we're having is, you know, we're kind of getting these, these chefs who are a, a derivative of a derivative of a derivative, the fourth derivative just kind of misses the mark from what the first thing was trying to be. Do you guys have that same problem or, in, in Spain? Or do you think that, as disciples come from, uh, we'll say Ferran Adria is, is, who's kind of the king there right now, are his disciples doing, doing new things, or are they just getting wackier?

Speaker 5 8:12

No, they're doing new things because there's a lot of pressure from restaurant critics. Uh, I mean, if you're doing something derivative of El Bulli, you'll be laughed out of town. I mean, there's a lot of pressure to create original concepts. And what you have is these young chefs who are each working with a scientist on a particular thing. For instance, there's a wonderful chef at the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, and he's Basque, and he's interested in milk, and he's working with a dairy scientist. there are chefs in Valencia region who are working, um, on reinventing the traditional dish, the paella, the rice dish. Uh, there are chefs who are working with scents, uh, with aromas. Uh, everyone kind of stakes out their own territory and, um, they're working within that, within that field, um, to create new techniques. W- But again, the food that, once you taste the food, it really strikes an emotional chord. No one is ever forgetting that food is, first and foremost, uh, is about the diner and is to, you know, surprise, delight, uh, the client. So once, once you chew it, it's, it is actually just great food, and this is something that chefs in other parts of the world, um, are forgetting because the Spanish have been doing it for a long time.

Francis 10:56

And I w- I, I wanna talk about that very topic because I think when you introduce something like molecular gastronomy in a place with a strong food tradition like Spain, um, it, it's, it, it sometimes loses, uh, its grounding in a place like Australia or the United States. But we'll talk about that when we talk more with Anya von Bremzen of The New Spanish Table. Uh, stick around. Uh, very interesting stuff coming up. You, you're listening to The Restaurant Guys anya von Bremzen is contributing editor at Travel Leisure magazine. She's author of Please to the Table: The Russian Cookbook, which by the way won a James Beard Award. She is also author of The New Spanish Table, and today we're talking about Spanish cuisine. Uh, uh, let's, let's turn the tide for a moment and talk about, you know, it's funny, when, when in America we, we have, we go to a Spanish restaurant or an Italian restaurant as if there weren't like 25 Sp- uh, Italian cuisines and, and 20 Spanish cuisines. you wrote an article recently about Valencia and specifically, or more broadly El Levante, which is a region, uh, in Spain that is, is getting a lot of attention as sort of the new Basque cuisine. It's, it's getting a lot of attention but it's not that widely known in this country. Talk to us about El Levante and the cuisine there.

Speaker 5 12:03

Well, it's a wonderful region on the eastern coast of Spain, and what you have there is a very strong and the most kind of expressively Mediterranean cuisine in Spain. It's on the Mediterranean coast. They use a lot of fish. Uh, it's also la... It's called La Huerta, which means the vegetable garden of Spain. You know, this is, uh, where a lot of the best vegetables come from. They're also known for their oranges and citrus, so very rich agricultural region that, uh, with traditions that go back to the ancient Romans and the Arabs who have contributed a lot. But the best-known culinary export of the region is of course the paella.

Speaker 2 12:45

Mm.

Speaker 5 12:45

And you know, people perceive paella as this kind of general Spanish dish, but like gazpacho, it's a very regional dish, and it's, uh, comes from the region which is the epicenter of Spain's rice production. This is where all the rice paddies are. Americans only know one, uh, version of paella, and it's not necessarily the version that would be recognized back in Spain as something, you know, that has long-grain rice overloaded with, uh, chicken, shellfish- Right chorizo. Um, the real paellas, of El Levante, of Valencia are quite minimalist there are many different kinds of rice dishes, but the paella is defined as a dish that's cooked in a paella pan, um, that's kind of that shallow carbon steel pan, and, um, it's a great party dish. Traditionally, it is made outdoors-

Speaker 2 13:40

Mm-hmm

Speaker 5 13:41

over live flames, and the flames are stoked by, vine cuttings, a sarmiento, or, um, citrus cuttings. So it's a very smoky, wonderful... Paella to that region is what barbecue is to the American South-

Francis 13:57

But you

Speaker 5 13:57

wouldn't- or to

Francis 13:58

Texas but you wouldn't have in Valencia, in, in a paella in Valencia, you wouldn't, you wouldn't have, you know, chicken and all kinds of seafood and a big lobster in the center of it. What, what would you have, uh, besides just the rice?

Speaker 5 14:08

Well, actually, the classic paella, the dish that is called paella as opposed to just any arroz rice dish, has, uh... it's an inland dish. and it's prepared around the sort of lakes in the rice paddy. So what you would have is rabbit or chicken, but mainly rabbit, uh, land snails-

Speaker 2 14:28

Mm-hmm

Speaker 5 14:28

uh, which are again indigenous to the region, uh, flat green beans, another kind of beans, and, a simple broth with a little bit of tomato. I mean, very simple, very expressive, very eloquent dish that is all about the rice. You know, the add-ons, like chicken, whatever, this is really secondary. Most important is the taste of the rice, that has to be a little bit smoky, um, slightly springy, you know, a little al dente. There's a whole art to cooking the rice. And when... You know, I have about 20 recipes in my book, The New Spanish Table, uh, along with the precise techniques of how to prepare it, and it's just the most wonderful dish imaginable, even if you cook it, uh, in the kitchen without the live fire.

Speaker 3 15:13

You know, that's a, a, in real juxtaposition here to in the United States where most people think of, of paella as the stuff that's in the rice, and the rice is, should be the least flavorful-

Francis 15:23

Uh-huh

Speaker 3 15:23

uh, you know, most ubiquitous, non-tasty... and again, it's just a vehicle for the rest of the dish.

Speaker 5 15:30

Yeah, exactly. But in fact, you know, it's all about the flavor of the grain, you know, and, uh, everyone will tell you that. And of course, Spain being Spain, you know, I just wrote an article for Food Wine Magazine, uh, about the new kind of reinvented and deconstructed paella because of course, you know, chefs take the idea and, uh, and run with it.

Francis 15:51

Well, and that's where I wanted to take the conversation next because w- in Spain, of course, it is, it is the center of culinary innovation now. So what are the, chefs in Valencia who are, you know, maybe trying to, push the envelope a little bit, what are, what are they doing with the traditional concept of paella in Valencia?

Speaker 5 16:08

Well, first of all, there's one chef in Alicante n- near Valencia called Quique Dacosta, and he just wrote a huge book about rice, uh, together with rice scientists, and the first thing that he probed, uh, is the technique and preparation of perfect rice. And, um, there are a lot of myths in Valencia. For instance, Valencians when they travel, they take the water with them, uh, because they claim that paella doesn't come out. Uh, they say you cannot stir it. You know, there's all these like old wives' tales. So the first thing they did is debunk all these old wife, old wives' tales and just demonstrate, based on the protein structure of rice, of how you make perfect rice. And they do something interesting. You know, they interrupt the cooking. they do the first stage of cooking, and then they let the rice rest, so the mushiness doesn't come out, and then they finish cooking, which is really convenient in a restaurant. And then he does all kinds of... He does a paella, for instance, with a layer of aloe vera- gelée on top. Mm-hmm. I mean, he does, he does 30 different kinds of rice.

Francis 17:09

Now, what he found is that, uh, cooking the rice straight through to completion is actually not as good as cooking the rice halfway, resting it, and then, and then finishing it. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 5 17:20

He's saying that cooking the rice halfway is one of the techniques that, that can help, especially a restaurant chef. Sure. Because, you know, it's hard, to do it, uh, because it takes a lot of time.

Francis 17:28

Sure.

Speaker 5 17:29

Uh, that's one of the things. And also, um, they've just been experimenting with a lot of different ri- rice varieties. Of course, Valencians swear that their rice is the best, but they looked at Italian rices, which are very similar protein structure, to some of the Spanish rices. So for instance, when I make a paella based on their recommendation, I often use a Vialone Nano rice from Italy. It's a risotto rice, but it just gives you that perfect texture. And then, you know, there are all these different flavorings. There's another chef who does a deconstructed paella, uh, based on a certain kind of Rice Krispies. He boils the rice, he lets it dry for three days, and then by some alchemy that he just discovered by accident, when you drop this dehydrated rice into hot oil, it forms tiny little pellets, like little Rice Krispies. And he serves that, uh, with all the traditional paella garnishes on the side. Um, it's a squid paella. And then, uh, you put the squid ink broth on top of it, and suddenly it becomes this traditional dish, you know. When it's presented to you, you go, "Oh, my God. What is this?"

Francis 18:38

Well, and you think s- and you think, "Snap, crackle, pop."

Speaker 5 18:40

Exactly. But when the waiter pours the broth on it, it comes alive in your mouth with all the traditional force, you know. Which is again, you know, this deconstructive technique that the Spanish are so good at. They kind of abstract the dish, they deconstruct it, but once you eat it, it makes perfect sense. Uh, you know, it- It reminds you of the traditional dish that you love.

Speaker 3 19:01

And at the same time, you have this intense, uh, dedication to all of the ingredients in your dish.

Speaker 5 19:09

Exactly.

Speaker 3 19:09

And you, you don't just look at, "Oh, I wanna get a, a, a nice fresh lobster and I'll make paella." You look at all of the ingredients that are going into that dish before you make that dish. Yes.

Francis 19:19

I, I have to... I'm gonna ask you to weigh in on, on one thing, we'll take a quick break and come back. My view of, of the techniques being developed by avant-garde cuisine is I have seen pe- I've seen it done very well. I've dined in Madrid at some, protégé of, Adria's and, some other places here in the United States where I think it's done well. But these brand, these new techniques, this, you know, the, the, the avant-garde techniques of making ama- you know, unusual, uh, cuisine, to me it's like the Force, you know? You can use it for good or you can use it for evil. Sometimes it's just a cheap trick, and sometimes it, it really does move things forward. Do you think that's a, a fair assessment of that, Anya?

Speaker 5 19:54

Someone invented the deep-frying. Someone invented béchamel. Uh, all these things that seem so far out today might become, commonplace later. And it's like with any technique, you know, someone deep-fries well and someone deep-fries not well.

Speaker 2 20:08

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 20:08

You know, it's all... In the end, it's all up to the talent of the chef and the ideas, you know, the conceptual, uh, ideas, he has to convey them. It's, it's... But, you know, these techniques are necessary because what Ferran Adria and company have worked with mostly is texture. I mean, look at traditional French sauces. You know, look at demi-glace. It's heavy, it's brown, it colors everything. It really, like, imparts its own flavor to the dish. Look at, you know, béchamel. Look at cream and egg-based sauces. And- You know, they're just blah. they're- So what these guys are doing is they're lightening up textures- Well- and they're letting the natural flavor of the ingredient come through in a much more vibrant way.

Francis 20:48

And I think that, again, these are techniques that can be used for good and, and for evil, and I'll use your, your deep-frying analogy. Uh, someone uses deep-frying to invent deep-fried calamari, and someone uses it to deep-fry a Twinkie. You know what I mean? It's all-

Speaker 5 21:01

Hey, hey, hey. Don't mock the deep-fried Twinkies.

Francis 21:03

Oh, I will mock the deep-fried Twinkie, but I'll have to do it after a commercial break. Anya, uh, you weren't really gonna defend the deep-fried Twinkie, were you?

Speaker 5 21:11

No, but

Francis 21:13

I called your bluff. All right, I want-

Speaker 5 21:15

Okay, okay. I'll let- I- I'll let you get away with it.

Francis 21:17

I mean, from the land of churros, you know what I mean? We can't have the deep-fried Twinkie. Now, I want... Something else I read in, um, in a recent article written by you was you talked about, you were in Valencia, and you were drinking horchata, which is a milky drink made with pressed tiger nuts. H-How does the tiger feel about that? No. Um- What? H-How... Well, tell us about the... What is horchata?

Speaker 3 21:38

Awful. Awful.

Speaker 5 21:39

Um, it's... Horchata is, it's made from chufa, which is a kind of nut. it's a, you know, imagine it's like a creamy drink that's really refreshing and cool in, in hot weather. Um, it's almost like almond milk but, you know, with an extra nuttiness. It's just, it's just a wonderful thing. And yes, you dunk churros in it, and you're sitting in this old antique café in Valencia, and life is going by, and you're drinking your horchata and dunking churros in it, and it's just a great local ritual. Again, you know, this is a region, very strong on local tradition. whatever the avant-garde chefs are doing, they're always aware of it. They're always in dialogue with this tradition. Nothing in Spain right now exists outside of, of that reference point.

Speaker 3 22:23

You know, Anya, I, I want you to weigh in on something. A few years back, you w- you wrote, uh, or at least a while back ago, you wrote an article on, uh, sous vide and, and how it was gonna be big here in the United States. And

Francis 22:34

before... And we need to tell people what sous vide is, too, before we g- weigh in on it.

Speaker 3 22:37

Well, g- tell us a little bit about what, sous vide is and, and how you feel about it you know, the health department getting upset about New York chefs, using this particular technique. Cooking it to death,

Speaker 5 22:46

yeah. Yeah. Sous vide is vacuum poaching. You know, you vacuum pack an ingredient, and then you cook it in very carefully controlled temperature, um, so that it preserves, you know, the tenderness. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's a great method. actually, it comes from France. I think it, it was pioneered in the '70s, and then the Spanish chefs picked it up, and now it's all the rage. You know, the New York Health Department- You know, they're very paranoid About a lot of things, you know, and, and it's true. I mean, it's, it's the same thing that, you know, you're afraid of salmonella in eggs. You know, you're afraid of undercooked this, overcooked this. They don't let you import ham from Spain, although that's changing. you know, there's a lot of precautions, and that's what these guys are there for.

Francis 23:31

Well,

Speaker 5 23:31

let- What can you do? Yeah. But if, if it's done properly, there should be not a problem.

Francis 23:35

Let me lay out the controversy, is that the, the sous vide cooking is where we basically vacuum pack something in, in an individual bag, many ingredients together sometimes, and becau- it cooks in a vacuum. And then, uh, we put that bag in a very tightly controlled, water bath that is at a temperature that, uh, is lower than, than the New York City Health Department allows things to be cooked at. but this is a new technique, um, that no one that I know of anywhere in the world has ever gotten sick from sous vide-cooked food. Yet, you know, I think it's a, a case where the New York City Health Department's rules haven't been updated yet to account for this new method of cooking, and they- I think it's- They shut a couple of people down.

Speaker 3 24:14

I think it's a lack of understanding of, of the-

Speaker 5 24:15

Yeah. Also, you know, a lot of the sous vide, for instance, when you cook a meat sous vide, you might be cooking it for 36 hours. I mean, there's just no way there's gonna be any bacteria left. Ah. Uh, but yeah, I mean, they're not familiar with it, and, uh, what can you do? Hopefully they will, uh- They'll catch up become educated.

Speaker 3 24:30

We, we need them to catch up.

Francis 24:32

Well, you know, that, that also is like, uh, The New York City Health Department had come down, and they've... I think they've backed off, but they came down on a few traditional Italian delis for producing mozzarella by hand- Mm in water that... I mean, the way that you produce mozzarella i-is, to produce it in water that is warm. Warm water. R- and, you know, and it's salted, and you're only... it's only in there for a certain amount of time. But if you refrigerate fresh handmade mozzarella, it becomes stiff store-bought mozzarella. we, we have to as a society and as a, as a country- Well,

Speaker 5 24:59

it's worse... You know, I tell you it's worse in Europe with the EU, with, uh, united Europe. The regulations are so tough. For instance, they're killing off the pasta production in Italy because you can't roll it out on wood.

Francis 25:10

They're prohibiting restaurants from, from doing this?

Speaker 5 25:12

Yeah, you can't, you can't... I don't think you can roll it out on wood, which is a traditional way of doing it. Right, which is the way- And, you know, there's a whole slew of regulations basically that makes it impossible for, pasta to be sold commercially

Francis 25:23

You're gonna make me cry. I gotta, I gotta take, we gotta take a short

Speaker 5 25:26

break

Francis 25:27

and then

Speaker 5 25:27

I'm gonna cry. Yeah, you know, I mean, the whole raw milk cheese, I mean, it's, it's, it's everywhere. I would say that, uh, EU is even, is even more of a nuisance because it goes across so many countries.

Francis 25:36

Well, Anya, we need to leave it there. I want to thank you for being a guest on the show. It's been fabulous talking to you.

Speaker 5 25:41

It's been great. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 3 25:43

Thanks, Anya.

Francis 25:43

Now, that's Anya von Bremzen. Her latest book is The New Spanish Table. You can find out more about her and link directly to that book on our website, therestaurantguysradio.com, and I suggest you do. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys,

25:54

Everybody and welcome back. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys. We're talking about Spain. I love Spain You do love Spain. It is- I, I- It, it, it's like one of those places that's near and dear to your heart

Francis 26:02

I think I'm going to the bullfights this spring.

Speaker 3 26:04

Oh.

Francis 26:04

So all you vegetarians who write hate mail to me anyway- one more reason. Get out your pens. Uh, yeah, no, I'm going to the bullfights. I went... Uh, I didn't get to go last year, but I went the year before, and, uh, I've gone a lot since I was 25.

Speaker 3 26:17

I like, I like the bullfights where they let the bull go at the end.

Francis 26:20

Yeah, wimp.

Speaker 3 26:21

Um- After he's chased some matador

Francis 26:24

around the arena. They let the bull go. They let the bull go right into the dinner plate when, when we're done. You know one of the cool things about Spain is I was there with some friends last time. We were in Madrid, and we went to see flamenco, which is actually... Flamenco dancing is not, It's not native to Madrid, uh, but Madrid is the capital of Spain, so you get all sorts of different influences of Castilian Spain in Madrid. Um, but flamenco and Sevillana are from Andalusia and Sevilla, which is in the south, right? Uh-huh. Um, but flamenco dancing is wonderful to see, and you can go out late at night 'cause Madrid is a very nighttime city, right?

Speaker 3 26:52

And- When, when Francis says very nighttime, he means very nighttime. Like-

Francis 26:56

Like dinner reservations at 10:00

Speaker 3 26:57

like don't go out to dinner before 10:30 or you're gonna... somebody's gonna look at you like, "What are you having, lunch?"

Francis 27:01

No, you can meet all the other Americans and, uh, Brits- having dinner at that, at 9:00, 9:00 at night. Dinner reservations are at 10:00. Uh, tapas are at 5:00. Uh, and then after dinner, at midnight or 1:00, you go out. And I'm talking people of all ages. I mean, if you go to Gran Via in Madrid at midnight, 12:30, 1:00 in the morning, there are a bunch of old guys in natty suits, you know, and ladies sitting having coffee. Like it's great, and it's m- it, you know, it's, it's cross-generational, which is one of the things I like about European- No

Speaker 3 27:27

work gets done in Madrid- until like 11:00 AM.

Francis 27:30

Yeah, the only thing they do on time is close for a siesta and, uh- No, but I have to say, um, you know, one of the things about m- Spain is that it's, it's multi-generational. Uh-huh. You know, like many different ages of people are in the same place, which you see too little of in America. Yes,

Speaker 3 27:43

that's true.

Francis 27:43

But one of the things that I love is my, my friend, uh, he's a doctor who went to medical

Speaker 4 27:46

in Spain. He's, he's Spanish. His name is Sevy. Uh, and Sevy taught me that when we're out, and I never knew this before, when you're out and there's a flamenco dancer you like, you clap your hands and you go, "Agua fresca." I- fresh water. I don't, I, I, I don't know why that's a compliment, but, but pretty flamenco dancers smiled at me when I did it.

Speaker 6 28:03

They, they, they liked it?

Speaker 4 28:04

I s- I, I felt very much in the know.

Speaker 6 28:06

They liked you, and they didn't throw the agua fresca in your f- in your fat face?

Speaker 4 28:09

I saw, I saw Sevy doing it, so I just imitated him. And I've done it ever since. It always, always goes over big. Not quite sure how that works. Anyway, hope you've enjoyed the hour listening to The Restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Schaaf.

Speaker 6 28:18

And I'm Mark Mastriano.

Speaker 4 28:19

We are The Restaurant Guys.